Macross - Mecha, Weapons, and Technology

[Danish78]

Anybody here have any ideas on how the final major space battles are going to play out? Supposedly its a Vajra homeworld invasion/destruction scenario from what little I've gleaned from the other threads. (Haven't watched episode 23 yet).

Frontier's new main line VF is the VF-171Ex, any speculation on what Galaxy's mainline VF is? VF-27 is a special operations fighter (ala VF-22) right?

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Danish78

Anybody here have any ideas on how the final major space battles are going to play out? Supposedly its a Vajra homeworld invasion/destruction scenario from what little I've gleaned from the other threads. (Haven't watched episode 23 yet).

Frontier's new main line VF is the VF-171Ex, any speculation on what Galaxy's mainline VF is? VF-27 is a special operations fighter (ala VF-22) right?

Well we never did get a confirmation whethere th bird that Captain Wilen was piloting was a Valkyrie.

Usually we presume that it is but we haven't seen it transform.

Well for that matter we haven't seen the YF-24 transform in Battroid or Gerwalk just a schematic. But we can deduce that it transforms like the VF-25 and VF-27 having the same torso and perhaps having the VF-25G's head.

[Danish78]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Well we never did get a confirmation whethere th bird that Captain Wilen was piloting was a Valkyrie.

Usually we presume that it is but we haven't seen it transform.

A pity too. I was really looking forward to a concrete answer to that.

Well for that matter we haven't seen the YF-24 transform in Battroid or Gerwalk just a schematic. But we can deduce that it transforms like the VF-25 and VF-27 having the same torso and perhaps having the VF-25G's head.

Thanks for the input!
Would it be too much to speculate that Galaxy's mainline VF is the VF-24? Unaltered (at least not radically) from the YF-24.

Haven't watched M7 but could the Max flying in to drop a bomb on the Protodevlin homeworld (that did happen right?) scenario be repeated here?

[Danish78]

Are there any more Koenig Monsters on Frontier? Would really love to see a flight of em light up the Vajra with MDE munitions. That would be awesome!

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Danish78

Thanks for the input!
Would it be too much to speculate that Galaxy's mainline VF is the VF-24? Unaltered (at least not radically) from the YF-24.

Haven't watched M7 but could the Max flying in to drop a bomb on the Protodevlin homeworld (that did happen right?) scenario be repeated here?

Well Max did to Gepenitch but Gepenitch just folded it at their escape ship's exact coordinates.

Stranding them and putting them under his mercy.

[Danish78]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Well Max did to Gepenitch but Gepenitch just folded it at their escape ship's exact coordinates.

Stranding them and putting them under his mercy.

Ah, so that's what happened. Thanks for clarifying.

[Ithekro]

If Galaxy gets involved again...its elite forces would be VF-27s. However their rank and file forces? VF-171 like Frontier? Or would they have a different (yet familiar) design to set them apart from Frontier's forces? The YF-24 seems to be a failed prototype designed on Frontier, right? If so then Galaxy won't have those. However they could have something pattered off the VF-4 to be different. Assuming they won't pull out the VF-19 and VF-22s for cannon fodder pilots, since they were for elite skilled pilots only.

Otherwise, Either all VF-27s or Galaxy will also have VF-171s marked in different colors so we can tell them from Frontier's fighters.

That is....if Galaxy even shows up as a major fighting factor against Frontier and/or Quarter's forces.

[Forceflow]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

*snip*

Taking a page from the manga, there is the scene when Galaxy is calling Frontier for aid. In this, it shows a wrecked VF-171.


Chapter 4, page 35.


My feelings: probably VF-171s. Just the normal variants.

[Danish78]

Hmm... That would be disappointing (Galaxy with VF-171s), since Galaxy is supposedly one of the most technologically advanced of the Macross fleets. Too bad that the VF-19 was such a kickass design they never got issued as mainline VFs even if they were meant to be that in the beginning. Would have been great to see squadrons of Excaliburs even if some of them got owned. I mean the Galaxy whale patrol had em in M7 Dynamite, why can't a very rich, technologically advanced colony fleet have em?

Isn't the YF-24 a next gen prototype VF for NUNS not just Frontier? The VF-25 is the Frontier derivative of that design and the VF-27 might be a spec-op VF off of it as well.

Spoiler for possible ep-24-25 battle scenarios:

There are supposed to be major space battles in ep24-25 with maybe an invasion of the Vajra home planet scenario. I speculate that:
> Frontier fleet folds in engages Vajra defenses near the planet's orbit
> Establishes an orbit around the planet, bombards the planet to secure a landing site/sanitize defenses
> Once landing site secure, land a force to setup a Dimension Eater Bomb
> Galaxy fleet folds in, attacks Frontier fleet......

Haven't thought of how it should end yet though.

Anyway, posted my speculated scenario here because I so want to see some Destroid action if they do land in Vajra land to plant a DE Bomb.

[Paul Hausser]

It is quite understandable that any enemy force arrayed against the Frontier will not be composed only out of elite pilots using best equipment available, or only the most powerful bug-eyed monsters.

Why? There are at least two reasons. First, unless some kind of a cop-out is used, training competent pilots takes a) time, b) money and c) actual combat experience. Well trained pilots are very much in demand, and, at the same time, are pretty rare. It takes skill, persistence and massive doses of luck to become a good military aviator.

Second, regardless of industrial base at hand, mass-production of complicated machines such as advanced air- and spacecraft, is a time-consuming and costly effort. What's more, advanced models (such as VF-27's) cost much more than basic ones (i.e. VF-171's).

I would offer you a real world comparison. In World War II, a single Pz. Kpfw. IV tank, fully loaded and equipped with armament and appropriate radio sets cost 115.962 Reichsmark - at the same time, a single Pz. Kpfw. VI Ausf. H Tiger I tank, also fully loaded and equipped, cost 299.800 Reichsmark, almost three times as much, as a Pz. IV! What does this mean? It means, that for the price of a single "elite" tank, German military could get three "grunts". This has not changed till today (M1A2 Abrams costs much more than a T-90), and most likely will not change in the future.

Thus, provided the director will not say "screw reality, this is my world and I can do whatever I want", any force the Galaxy might possibly muster will be limited by its manufacturing capability and the way its war planners would balance their acquisitions.

As for Vajira? I'd say larger bugs tend to breed slower than small ones. Different constraints when compared to manufacturing vehicles might exist, but exist they will.

[Danish78]

Yes, the VF-27 is a spec-op fighter meant for elite (cyborg?) pilots so we aren't going to be seeing a lot of those. Come to think of it I wonder why Frontier doesn't have a its own spec-op wing equipped with special VFs unless SMS's VF-25 squadron fills that role.

Nice explanation on real world tank mass production. Personally I would have gone with aircraft like the Me-109 or FW-190 compared to the Me-262 or the modern day stuff the F-35 vs the F-22. Anyway thanks for the input.

[Paul Hausser]

Well, aerial warfare was never my cup of tea. Couldn't understand what Udet and Galland saw in all that fuss. Give me a proper panzer any day!

[Danish78]

Off topic question here- So may I ask what in your opinion is the best MBT (main battle tank) out there today? Merkava? Abrams? T-92? LeClerq, Challenger 2? Leopard?

[magnuskn]

Can´t talk from experience, but a friend of mine who was driving tanks during his time with the Bundeswehr says the Leopard 2 is the best tank out there. ^^

[Danish78]

Ok. Thanks for the post. Was really curious because I was watching Future Weapons on Discovery and apparently the tank crews in Israel consider the Merkava the best since its so battle-tested etc. It would be great if they could do a top ten MBTs (current) just to see how they stack up.

Erm... so I won't continue being off-topic. Battle Frontier vs. Battle Galaxy (if it happens) any thoughts out there?

[Paul Hausser]

Terribly sorry for the delay, Herr Danish. The answer to your riddle is relatively simple. The best tank of all of them is the one having the best crew, in terms of skill, supply and morale. The weapon itself is secondary to the hand that wields it..

..although on the other hand, I am most partial to the Merkava Siman 3 BAZ or Siman 4.

[Ithekro]

If it comes down to a Galaxy verse Frontier fight, I do hope they make the cannon fodder planes different colors at least...especially if they are all VF-171s. Now if it is basically a showcase for the VF-25s and VF-27s, then they won't have the confusion factor...but then the confusion factor could mean "friendly fire" cassualties among the VF-171 pilots.

Though it might be rather cool to see a bunch of VF-4s (or an improved variant of the VF-4) launch from planet side to join up with the outnumbered "good" Frontier pilots. Cool doesn't always mean good in terms of plot and story flow...but there is only one known place we'd see VF-4s in this galaxy.

[Danish78]

Originally Posted by Paul Hausser

Terribly sorry for the delay, Herr Danish. The answer to your riddle is relatively simple. The best tank of all of them is the one having the best crew, in terms of skill, supply and morale. The weapon itself is secondary to the hand that wields it..

..although on the other hand, I am most partial to the Merkava Siman 3 BAZ or Siman 4.

Good point with the crew. I guess battle experience really does count in designing MBTs. Thanks for the reply.

[Daigo]

What's more, advanced models (such as VF-27's) cost much more than basic ones (i.e. VF-171's).

So? If they are sufficiently more advanced, then the use justifies the cost. The F-22 is a better example of that, than your WW2 example. The F-15 is gradually going to be phased out entirely, and replaced by the F-22. The F-22 also costs over 100 million dollars. Much more than the old F-15. Yet, the quality justifies the cost.

If it comes down to a Galaxy verse Frontier fight, I do hope they make the cannon fodder planes different colors at least...especially if they are all VF-171s. Now if it is basically a showcase for the VF-25s and VF-27s, then they won't have the confusion factor...but then the confusion factor could mean "friendly fire" cassualties among the VF-171 pilots.

In most air combat scenarios, you barely even see the enemy most of the time. Realistically, a paint scheme isn't a good way of differentiating between friend and foe in an atmosphere, let alone space, where you might be lucky to see anything at all. That's what the radar and comm equipment is for.

[Paul Hausser]

Originally Posted by Daigo

So? If they are sufficiently more advanced, then the use justifies the cost. The F-22 is a better example of that, than your WW2 example. The F-15 is gradually going to be phased out entirely, and replaced by the F-22. The F-22 also costs over 100 million dollars. Much more than the old F-15. Yet, the quality justifies the cost.

That is for the military in question to consider, and to choose the "investment plan", so to speak, which mirrors their operational doctrine the most. Some armies prefer quality, while others trust in quantity. An old saying of Josif Vissarionovich comes to mind.