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Old 2010-11-23, 21:38   Link #6901
Ascaloth
I don't give a damn, dude
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Despair
Age: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbitres View Post
Giving what you got, anything really - and still being ignored actually hurts, I've been meaning to say that for a long time but I figured it was me being stupid. It really does hurt. As well as groveling and practically begging to be loved, and still being kept at arms-length. That is actually very demoralizing, and then there are people that actually say the opposite of the objective course.
I don't know what happened, but I'm reasonably confident as to the approximate cause of your dilemma. Of course people will keep you at arm's-length; what kind of people can possibly love someone who don't value their dignity enough to stoop to grovelling?

Quote:
A person that keeps you at arms length, as well as outright ignore your feelings, doesn't consider you important. At all.
Great that you know it. Maybe you should take it as a cue that you should use your time better on something or someone else, instead of throwing good hours after bad.

Quote:
I suppose it was naivete. Me struggling to find value was a waste of time, because I have no value. That is objective and can't be changed.
Oh, you're right about that! You have about as much value in actual reality, as you wish to ascribe to yourself. So, what's preventing you from finding more value in yourself than you currently do?

Quote:
So I say that if you have the time for begging and groveling to be loved, than you definitely have the time to be productive and be useful to people that do have value.

So I say I've proudly surpassed my despair event horizon without being broken by it. I was right on the mark the first time, and I shouldn't have had my opinion swayed like it was.
Indeed, that's great. Let's hope it's something you'll keep in mind from now on.
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Old 2010-11-23, 22:16   Link #6902
Kaijo
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Eh, groveling can be appropriate sometimes. Well, not appropriate, but not wrong, either. If you've done everything you can for someone who used to like you, but is now shutting you out, you can do some groveling, ie, "I don't want to lose you, as a friend/bf/gf, but I feel that I am. What can I do to make you happy?"

It can be a way to show much they mean to you, in the right contexts. Also, humans being emotional creatures, it's only natural to feel that kind of groveling despair when someone you have formed a close emotional bond with, decides that bond isn't important anymore, nor wants you around. It may not be right, but it is human. If you don't grovel, then they weren't as important to you as

Though, that's why I prefer logic; "Oh, you don't care about me anymore? Kay, bye. Have a nice life!" That's not what most people think in those situations, though, heh.
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Old 2010-11-23, 22:57   Link #6903
Arbitres
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Being blown out of prportions already? Damn. Oh well.

Ascaloth, you really shouldn't be like that. It's perceptual on the term I have no value until I actually enter into society and work, which I haven't. Me being constrained down by emotional ties does nothing to improve my life style, which is pointless.

I just used hyperbole, intense words to describe what I meant. It's meant to be exaggerative. I didn't mean grovel or beg in the vocabulary sense.

Thanks for playing though! Feel free to play again.

No Kaijo, it was one-sided to begin with. Which is why I instead want to interchange that into productivity. Though you are right on everything else. Care to be my spokesperson?
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Old 2010-11-23, 23:12   Link #6904
Ascaloth
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Eh, groveling can be appropriate sometimes. Well, not appropriate, but not wrong, either. If you've done everything you can for someone who used to like you, but is now shutting you out, you can do some groveling, ie, "I don't want to lose you, as a friend/bf/gf, but I feel that I am. What can I do to make you happy?"

It can be a way to show much they mean to you, in the right contexts. Also, humans being emotional creatures, it's only natural to feel that kind of groveling despair when someone you have formed a close emotional bond with, decides that bond isn't important anymore, nor wants you around. It may not be right, but it is human. If you don't grovel, then they weren't as important to you as

Though, that's why I prefer logic; "Oh, you don't care about me anymore? Kay, bye. Have a nice life!" That's not what most people think in those situations, though, heh.
Well, that's not how I would do it; what I would do (and what I have done, in fact), would been to sit my partner down for a talk, and ask her what I'm not doing enough in the relationship, and how I can fix or improve on it. I think that works just as well to show how much the other side means to you, and you don't have to throw away your dignity for it; the way I see it, throwing away your dignity for the sake of the other side is usually counterproductive, in any case.

Although, to be honest, I think my reaction to if a relationship is unsalvagable, would be much the same as yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbitres View Post
Being blown out of prportions already? Damn. Oh well.

Ascaloth, you really shouldn't be like that. It's perceptual on the term I have no value until I actually enter into society and work, which I haven't. Me being constrained down by emotional ties does nothing to improve my life style, which is pointless.

I just used hyperbole, intense words to describe what I meant. It's meant to be exaggerative. I didn't mean grovel or beg in the vocabulary sense.

Thanks for playing though! Feel free to play again.

No Kaijo, it was one-sided to begin with. Which is why I instead want to interchange that into productivity. Though you are right on everything else. Care to be my spokesperson?
Seems you have yet to learn that one thing about online interaction; on the Internet, there is less context, and it is thus much harder for people to detect hyperbole, exaggeration, irony, and the like. In short, when it came to how I responded to you, you were pretty much asking for it.

And if your whole "I have no value" schtick was based on your lack of contribution to society and work to begin with, you should have made that clear from the beginning. Unspoken understandings are another of those things that are harder to detect on the Net.
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Old 2010-11-24, 00:38   Link #6905
Kaijo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbitres View Post
No Kaijo, it was one-sided to begin with. Which is why I instead want to interchange that into productivity. Though you are right on everything else. Care to be my spokesperson?
Heh, then you have it right. If they didn't really like you in the first place, then you can't give them that emotional hold over you. And no, I shouldn't be a spokesperson; that entail me saying spinning things into what people want to hear, instead of staying my blunt and tactless self. ;p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Well, that's not how I would do it; what I would do (and what I have done, in fact), would been to sit my partner down for a talk, and ask her what I'm not doing enough in the relationship, and how I can fix or improve on it. I think that works just as well to show how much the other side means to you, and you don't have to throw away your dignity for it; the way I see it, throwing away your dignity for the sake of the other side is usually counterproductive, in any case.

Although, to be honest, I think my reaction to if a relationship is unsalvagable, would be much the same as yours.
That's actually what I meant. It's for when you get past that part, where you've been together for quite awhile and the other person won't listen to you, or will still insist that "nothing you can do, I just don't feel what I did for you anymore, and now I just feel awkward around you and you make me uncomfortable." For times like that, when they don't realize that they're tearing your heart out, that groveling is natural and understandable. Of course, I feel it should be paired up with actions to back up the words.

Then you notice later that the person immediately started going out with someone else after they dumped you, so it really wasn't you, it was just that they found something better.
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Old 2010-11-24, 00:56   Link #6906
Samari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Eh, groveling can be appropriate sometimes. Well, not appropriate, but not wrong, either. If you've done everything you can for someone who used to like you, but is now shutting you out, you can do some groveling, ie, "I don't want to lose you, as a friend/bf/gf, but I feel that I am. What can I do to make you happy?"

It can be a way to show much they mean to you, in the right contexts. Also, humans being emotional creatures, it's only natural to feel that kind of groveling despair when someone you have formed a close emotional bond with, decides that bond isn't important anymore, nor wants you around. It may not be right, but it is human. If you don't grovel, then they weren't as important to you as

Though, that's why I prefer logic; "Oh, you don't care about me anymore? Kay, bye. Have a nice life!" That's not what most people think in those situations, though, heh.
Yes. At least you'll be able to walk away from the situation on your own terms.

Someone told me this one day. Maybe I heard it here?

"The best way to get over a girl is to get on top of another one".
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Old 2010-11-24, 18:37   Link #6907
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Although, to be honest, I think my reaction to if a relationship is unsalvagable, would be much the same as yours.
I am sure your mind would change after you get married and have children. In my case, my parents are already in an unsalvageable relationship but they are still staying together : both my parents don't want to lose two things - 1. The provision for them after they grow old, 2. The house.

My sister is getting married so it is not a problem for her, but it is an emotional agony for me to be in-between a Cold War.

They are just staying together for their personal gains. I am going to turn the tables on them once I graduate : I am going to disappear to another part of the world and leave them to their own devices, since the law is too retarded to disallow disownership of useless parents.

One last thing : if you are a parent-wannabe in a highly competitive society like Singapore, you must first meet the following parameters of provision -

1. Money to send them to school, ALL THE WAY through university in any course.
2. Encouragement

If you are unable to provide them with either, don't have kids. Not only is the government baby bonus not worth it, they are a divestment if they are born with mental defects like dyslexia, autism or mental retardation - they won't be able to learn properly like most of their peers.

Quote:
Seems you have yet to learn that one thing about online interaction; on the Internet, there is less context, and it is thus much harder for people to detect hyperbole, exaggeration, irony, and the like. In short, when it came to how I responded to you, you were pretty much asking for it.

And if your whole "I have no value" schtick was based on your lack of contribution to society and work to begin with, you should have made that clear from the beginning. Unspoken understandings are another of those things that are harder to detect on the Net.
I agree with that. Text is simply text, to judge it with a tone, or assuming it has one, is plainly stooping to the level of intelligence of "net safety groups".

Though you stated the obvious with one thing - a person's life has absolutely no value. The value he or she has is given to him by the people around him.

From the monetary perspective (often termed pragmatic as money is judged as the best indicator of "real" value), a person's worth is his monthly paycheck, no more, no less. Amount of credit access from the bank is not counted - so even if you have a platinum card and earn $3000 per month, you are still worth $3000 per month; and thus the reason why companies are free to sack anybody they want, or that schools are right to expel any student they want, is because these people are of no value to them anymore.

If one desires to worth more to others, he must be able to deliver to those people he is around. However, if one desires to worth more to oneself, to give himself a reason to achieve anything he desires, he must be able to deliver what he or she desires.

Simply put, it is one of the basics of marketing applied to human psychology - target market. You have got to know what you want first before going about to achieve it right?

P.S She's landing tonight. If you have a religion, please pray for my safety if you want me to post in this forum again.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-11-24, 22:56   Link #6908
Ascaloth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I am sure your mind would change after you get married and have children. In my case, my parents are already in an unsalvageable relationship but they are still staying together : both my parents don't want to lose two things - 1. The provision for them after they grow old, 2. The house.
That may apply for the current generation, perhaps. As it is though, I foresee that the "traditional" family unit will become rarer in the future. I think there might be a lot more single-parent families in the future, with a generation of more savvy parents who wouldn't need to rely on their children for old-age provisions as much as their parents did.

I may be a little too optimistic about that though, so YMMV.

Quote:
One last thing : if you are a parent-wannabe in a highly competitive society like Singapore, you must first meet the following parameters of provision -

1. Money to send them to school, ALL THE WAY through university in any course.
2. Encouragement

If you are unable to provide them with either, don't have kids. Not only is the government baby bonus not worth it, they are a divestment if they are born with mental defects like dyslexia, autism or mental retardation - they won't be able to learn properly like most of their peers.
I realize you're probably saying this for the benefit of everyone, but....I have an autistic brother, and I totally know what you mean by the latter part. Such a child is something which I still fear could be my fate, and I especially hope it's something my girl wouldn't have to face; I really don't want to become my mother.

Quote:
P.S She's landing tonight. If you have a religion, please pray for my safety if you want me to post in this forum again.
May the Almighty Haruhi bless your reunion with her representative on this world.
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Old 2010-11-25, 02:31   Link #6909
Samari
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Francisco
Age: 36
Is getting high heels for your girlfriend's Christmas present a bad idea?

My girlfriend isn't into heels that much, but she'll wear them on a "special occasion" every so often. I like it when she wears heels. She looks sexy. The problem is that it's hard for her to find her size sometimes, which helps contribute to her not wearing them as much.

I just wouldn't want her to think I'm being selfish and trying to change her or something like. I don't think she would take it that way though. I also know girls can be really picky when it comes to this kind of thing. I was thinking about getting here some nice mid-level black high heels that look pretty normal and low-key. What do you think?
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永遠不要失去信心,你的命運。
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Old 2010-11-25, 02:37   Link #6910
Arbitres
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Quote:
Is getting high heels for your girlfriend's Christmas present a bad idea?
...I imagine a girl would want to buy the 'special occasion' stuff herself, actually. You buying them only really indicates you want 'more' of that special occasion. I suppose it may have a good side effect because it shows you care and wouldn't mind to go on them, but it may also come off as the opposite spectrum.

I'll play Devil's advocate and say it's good. And if my advocacy screws you up, feel free to come to West Virginia to kick my ass.
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Old 2010-11-25, 02:42   Link #6911
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samari View Post
Is getting high heels for your girlfriend's Christmas present a bad idea?

My girlfriend isn't into heels that much, but she'll wear them on a "special occasion" every so often. I like it when she wears heels. She looks sexy. The problem is that it's hard for her to find her size sometimes, which helps contribute to her not wearing them as much.

I just wouldn't want her to think I'm being selfish and trying to change her or something like. I don't think she would take it that way though. I also know girls can be really picky when it comes to this kind of thing. I was thinking about getting here some nice mid-level black high heels that look pretty normal and low-key. What do you think?
Your choice seems okay, although I'm not quite sure whether she would actually liek the shoes. However, since you seem to know her preferences, etc, she would most likely appreciate it.
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Old 2010-11-25, 02:44   Link #6912
Samari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbitres View Post
...I imagine a girl would want to buy the 'special occasion' stuff herself, actually. You buying them only really indicates you want 'more' of that special occasion. I suppose it may have a good side effect because it shows you care and wouldn't mind to go on them, but it may also come off as the opposite spectrum.

I'll play Devil's advocate and say it's good. And if my advocacy screws you up, feel free to come to West Virginia to kick my ass.
Meh, I'll take the risk. She's not hot headed. She'll probably find it funny.

By the way, it's extremely hard to find a size five in basic, black heels. Online even. My goodness. Everything is exotic. Oh well. I'm kind of having some fun on this quest.
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Old 2010-11-25, 02:48   Link #6913
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by Samari View Post
Meh, I'll take the risk. She's not hot headed. She'll probably find it funny.

By the way, it's extremely hard to find a size five in basic, black heels. Online even. My goodness. Everything is exotic. Oh well. I'm kind of having some fun on this quest.
*Pats Samari*


If she doesn't recognize your effort, she's not worthy of you.
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Old 2010-11-25, 03:54   Link #6914
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samari View Post
Meh, I'll take the risk. She's not hot headed. She'll probably find it funny.

By the way, it's extremely hard to find a size five in basic, black heels. Online even. My goodness. Everything is exotic. Oh well. I'm kind of having some fun on this quest.
Buy her lingerie imported from Korea or Japan! If you know her sizes that is.

Though that can be an excuse for you to know them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
That may apply for the current generation, perhaps. As it is though, I foresee that the "traditional" family unit will become rarer in the future. I think there might be a lot more single-parent families in the future, with a generation of more savvy parents who wouldn't need to rely on their children for old-age provisions as much as their parents did.

I may be a little too optimistic about that though, so YMMV.
Ever read Gulliver's Travels? The utopia of the horse-race Houyhnhnms?

If our society progresses towards that state, we would be in a dystopic utopia. The reasons are all oversimplified, and black-white are one but not gray. No art, no passion, no dreams, no ambition. Sure everyone is equal and there is peace all around, but there can never be progress because nobody desires anything different (which might even work better or more efficiently).

No sooner will I commission a Russian suitcase nuke from the black market and level this place, than to let it degenerate into that.

Quote:
I realize you're probably saying this for the benefit of everyone, but....I have an autistic brother, and I totally know what you mean by the latter part. Such a child is something which I still fear could be my fate, and I especially hope it's something my girl wouldn't have to face; I really don't want to become my mother.
Spoiler for rant:


Quote:
May the Almighty Haruhi bless your reunion with her representative on this world.
Imouto had her last paper today. And of all the timeslots, that older one has to choose a midnight flight that lands at 10.30pm. And I have to be stuck in-between two annoying girls when next week is my exams.

Sure they are cute, not when one wants to stick around with me and the other just wants to punch me. I NEED to study for my exams too!
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-11-25, 05:01   Link #6915
Samari
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Age: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Buy her lingerie imported from Korea or Japan! If you know her sizes that is.

Though that can be an excuse for you to know them.
That is a great idea. I can't believe I didn't think of that earlier. If anyone knows any great sites, I'd love some ideas. And actually, I think she's more of a 4 1/2...not sure what the exact conversion for that in Japan would be. I'm guessing a 21?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
*Pats Samari*


If she doesn't recognize your effort, she's not worthy of you.
Agreed.
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Old 2010-11-25, 06:16   Link #6916
Ascaloth
I don't give a damn, dude
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Despair
Age: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Ever read Gulliver's Travels? The utopia of the horse-race Houyhnhnms?

If our society progresses towards that state, we would be in a dystopic utopia. The reasons are all oversimplified, and black-white are one but not gray. No art, no passion, no dreams, no ambition. Sure everyone is equal and there is peace all around, but there can never be progress because nobody desires anything different (which might even work better or more efficiently).

No sooner will I commission a Russian suitcase nuke from the black market and level this place, than to let it degenerate into that.
Before I reply to this, I'll come forward and admit I've not read Gulliver's Travels, and thus have no idea about the Houyhnhnms you mentioned. Therefore, I'm going to be speaking from a position of ignorance about said literature, and have little if any idea about what point you're making.

That said, what's the link?

How is an increasing rate of single-parent families going to lead to a dystopic utopia? For my part, I was speaking from my sociological background; the breakdown of the traditional family unit is indeed under way at least in the West, and many different types of family configurations are appearing and becoming more prevalent as the moral Zeitgeist is shifting. Personally, I don't see this as anything negative; it's all about how you work with what you've got, and the "traditional" nuclear family was a product of the advent of capitalism in any case, whatever anyone else might say.

Quote:
Imouto had her last paper today. And of all the timeslots, that older one has to choose a midnight flight that lands at 10.30pm. And I have to be stuck in-between two annoying girls when next week is my exams.

Sure they are cute, not when one wants to stick around with me and the other just wants to punch me. I NEED to study for my exams too!
Oh, I feel for you, I really do.
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Old 2010-11-25, 09:49   Link #6917
cheyannew
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northern VA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samari View Post
Is getting high heels for your girlfriend's Christmas present a bad idea?

My girlfriend isn't into heels that much, but she'll wear them on a "special occasion" every so often. I like it when she wears heels. She looks sexy. The problem is that it's hard for her to find her size sometimes, which helps contribute to her not wearing them as much.

I just wouldn't want her to think I'm being selfish and trying to change her or something like. I don't think she would take it that way though. I also know girls can be really picky when it comes to this kind of thing. I was thinking about getting here some nice mid-level black high heels that look pretty normal and low-key. What do you think?
TBH? Never buy shoes for someone, hehehe Shoes fit differently depending on the manufacturer, the material they're made out of, etc. It'd be pretty embarrassing to buy her a pair of heels that dont' fit right and then she feels obligated to wear them anyway cause you bought them for her

the buying lingerie CAN be a good idea, *IF* she's into that... but again, women often prefer to buy their own, because they know their comfort level and little quirks of what will or won't fit (for instance, I have very large hips, but a much smaller waist. If I were to wear a 1 piece bathing suit, I end up with this silly flap of material (due to having to get a size to accommodate my hips, leaving lots around the waist) that makes me look like a flying squirrel. I wear corsets for that reason, and make sure they have bidirectional lacing (ie my hips are on a different set than the rest lol). most lingerie would fit me HORRIBLY).

So, what to do when your hubby knows all this? He A: takes you shopping and says "Pick out something you like" or B: takes the easy way and buys jewelry

Besides, what could be sexier than saying "Hey.. Wear this *hands over necklace*.... and nothing else"
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Old 2010-11-25, 10:13   Link #6918
Ascaloth
I don't give a damn, dude
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Despair
Age: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheyannew View Post
Besides, what could be sexier than saying "Hey.. Wear this *hands over necklace*.... and nothing else"
I've....really got to try this one sometime.
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Old 2010-11-25, 10:16   Link #6919
zebra
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: in the wild
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I agree with Chey. Every girl loves shoes, but it's not just the matter of right taste and right size - they always fit differently and have to match something.

The underwear thing is a nice idea imo - you could just peek at her sizes if you're not sure, since you're living together anyway. One never has enough underwear!
But the downside is (like chey already said) most females are very picky about underwear, not just the style but the comfort, too. I lack the english terms for it, but not all types of bras are great for all kind of boobies. They have to look nice after all.
I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, but try to fit in your choice with .. her fit. For example if she usually wears bras with wire go that line, too .. it has nothing to do with the fanciness, though.

And in my own experience ... I prefer to buy both items myself or together. They're just hard to get right xD


But on a whole different matter: ... she doesn't have basic black high heels yet? :O .... *glances at wardrope* ... nevermind.
You actually were pretty smart thinking about that, they're really handy since they fit everything and every occasion - a must have.
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Old 2010-11-25, 11:40   Link #6920
SaintessHeart
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Before I reply to this, I'll come forward and admit I've not read Gulliver's Travels, and thus have no idea about the Houyhnhnms you mentioned. Therefore, I'm going to be speaking from a position of ignorance about said literature, and have little if any idea about what point you're making.

That said, what's the link?

How is an increasing rate of single-parent families going to lead to a dystopic utopia? For my part, I was speaking from my sociological background; the breakdown of the traditional family unit is indeed under way at least in the West, and many different types of family configurations are appearing and becoming more prevalent as the moral Zeitgeist is shifting. Personally, I don't see this as anything negative; it's all about how you work with what you've got, and the "traditional" nuclear family was a product of the advent of capitalism in any case, whatever anyone else might say.
I was assuming that you read it in Primary school and remembered because it was a children's book.

The single-parent family idea, and that the parent is financially capable, will lead to a dystopic utopia when the kid simply learns from one parent, and therefore inherit all their flaws without the other counteracting to the custodial's.

As I have been shaked like cocktail just now and my brain is still in recovery mode, I am afraid you have to read it on your own.

Wish I had a girlfriend like Shiori from Kami Nomi. Quiet, pretty and bookish.

It is not like I get to make out with her!
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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