Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 26 Discussion / Poll

[SilverSyko]

Well that's that is it? T'was quite the ride for me.

The Battler vs Beatrice scene was cool, though it did seem Beatrice had like a lake's worth of blood inside her. xD;

What was with Kinzo turning into a dragon? Ah well whatever.

Only strange thing was Bern and Lambda in the end, I dunna want to imagine what they're doing in that bed in their free time. >.>;

All in all for being an anime-only viewer at first, I liked it. The ending scene did sort of hint at a second season but then again one can never be too sure if they'll follow through.

Now to play the VN and see why people think the anime was such suckage.~

[Qilin]

I'm not going to say that the episode sucked. It didn't.
It simply failed to live up to the expectations of the SN community...

Nevertheless, I gave this a 6/10 since I feel a bit annoyed at all the stuff missing from the episode.
That's the lowest possible score I can give something that isn't garbage. Anyway, I'll be giving in to my inner fan boy and start ranting.

Spoiler for episode 26:

First off... everything didn't feel nearly as epic as in the SN. I know that I'm being nitpicky, but it just grates on me that they couldn't even replicate the awesomeness of the scenes, instead, replacing it with "meh."

Main disappointments:
1. NO BERNKASTEL TROLL!?
2. NO ANGE BURGERS!?
3. Ange's death scene... no red, and where's the pile of hamburger meat?
4. ???? was bad. Still no red?

Thinking like this could be bad for me, so I'll also enumerate some good points about the episode that do not in anyway redeem the negatives.

Possible redeeming points:
1. First scene with Maria and Sakutarou
2. Kinzo dragon
3. Beato's "final" riddle

If anyone wants to dispute, they can blame the SN and episode preview for keeping my hopes up. Episode 25 so kindly warned me too...

They took out one of Bern's few shining moments

[Arkwright]

Originally Posted by Luxa

What is this Bernkastel is evil thing you are talking about btw? Was there something else in the novel here? I get that she don't really care about Battle, but this was evident before.

Well, speaking purely from the first four episodes, the only thing in this particular scene was that when she and Lambda said the last line it showed them with slightly distorted grins, and the laugh was more like a cackle than a giggle. People make a big deal about it for some silly reason. Also there was the fact that she seemed somewhat apathetic to Ange's sacrifice but that was present to an extent in the anime.

As for your other concerns, some/most of those aspects were fleshed out more in the VN. Makes sense, since you don't get the third-person insight into character's minds in the anime like you could in written text.

[Luxa]

Originally Posted by Ronove

There's really no closure, because the game is still continuing and the mystery isn't solved! It's really hard to give a closure, unless you like Battler's final words.

That's true, and perhaps it is not their fault. (And of course not even the original creator's, he doesn't need to care about making a huge climax at halfway of his story.)
But I think that a series should be able to stand on its own even if it is an adaptation or half of a whole... For example Higurashi S1 could.

[MarthX]

Higurashi S1 didn't stand on its own at all.

Nothing was answered. It just ended with the power of friendship saving Rena in one world.

[lovelysan]

Higurashi S1 wise, I wouldn't say nothing.... The Shmion situation was revealed. Which I honestly thought was one the coolest things about Higu. Oh. And the deal with some of the things Keiichii experienced in the first arc too.

Of course, granted, S1 of Higurashi included two answer arcs after all.


Mmm. Pretty much the biggest reveal in S1 of Umineko is that Kinzo is/was always dead at the start of the games. So if you look back on previous episodes.....

Er. Well, that's my take from it anyways.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Arkwright

People make a big deal about it for some silly reason. Also there was the fact that she seemed somewhat apathetic to Ange's sacrifice but that was present to an extent in the anime.

Actually, ??? Tea Party aside, what made most people realise Bern is evil was the "Witches Tanabata" TIP. It's been translated and it's short. Perhaps, you should try reading it, along with the other TIPS.

[Digdri]

Originally Posted by Luxa

- Beatrice vs. Battler fight reminded me the time when I actually liked he series. Sadly Beatrice didn't even try to fight. Why is she suicidal now? Isn't it a bit out of character for her? Am I supposed to detect some hints that the witch who wanted to win the games so much just gives up now for no reason in particular. Oh, one final riddle, and it ends.

Still the last riddle killed Battler and he still had no answer to this.

About Beatos motivation: thats still one of the unsolved mysteries even with EP5 out but here is some recap so you may get the idea what was going on:

- Lambda revealed earlier that Beatos witch powers were indirectly granted by her.
- Lambda also complained that she doesn't fight seriously to win after the 3rd game and demands to show more effort.
- In the VN Battler never saw what happend to Ange during the reveal and still Beato described what happened in cruel details. He even asks her in the VN why she didn't just describe it as dissolving into butterflies etc. So she seemingly wanted to make him so mad that he wanted to she her dead.
- She still doesn't fight back seriously (as Lambda even stated in the VN which mistakes Battler made in his claims in red text.... so later on you know how much chances she passed)
- She says she wants to die during the fight.
- Lambda "admires" how good an actress she is to pull all of this off when with Bern... she also "pities" her as no one seems to be on her side in the end. (VN only)
- Battler admits that he is a softy after the 3rd arc after falling for her tricks.

So now you may turn the chessboard over and try to put this together to some logical motivation for her. Have fun

Spoiler for some favorite theories:

Well actually one often voiced theory is that she wanted to bring Battler to the point where he has the ambition and knowledge to solve this riddle on his own and all her cruelty was just an necessary act as Battler is such a kind/forgiving person. (So her Moe-Moe-"Trick" in EP3 could even be her true self)

Another is that she just wants to be released from her cruel role as "game master" in this game which she doesn't even seem to pull the strings in anymore.

But those are only 2 of many ideas and as I said there are no final answers yet, so its everybodies guess whats really going on after all.
There is also Berns (VN-only) explanation in EP1 tea party that Beato may just be a metaphor for the rules of this game scenario described which makes some ideas harder to justify.

Originally Posted by Luxa

- Okay, not so much, there are still some time. Teaparty time. Ok, I get it, Beatrice can't win and so what? They have spent the last minutes on stating this? At least some characterization for the witches at the end, please?

There wasn't much characterization for both in the VN at this point as well. This part was more of a mocking of all the final confrontation with many cruel (red) facts, some yuri subtext and both of them being surprisingly evil trolls. The characterization should have been in the tea parties of the earlier arcs, so the problem lies elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Luxa

What is this Bernkastel is evil thing you are talking about btw? Was there something else in the novel here? I get that she don't really care about Battle, but this was evident before.

Well actually both had the fun of their life mocking Anges cruel death (the much cited Angeburgers joke) and Beatos fate as are both kind of opposed to Beatos victory. Lambda also made fun of Battler ridiculous claims (especially the small bombs ) and the VN scene ended with both of them showing big troll faces. So they obviously only set this up for the lulz.

But what really sparked the "ZOMG Bern is eviiiil" talk were the misinterpretations of her character as an expy of Rika by the fans with knowledge of Higurashi. It was a cleverly placed trap by the author for those who enjoyed applying "Higurashi concepts" to the Umineko story.
The fact that all but this last VN scene showed her with a variation of her expressionless face also contributed to the effect that many never saw it coming even if she described herself as cruel and merciless from the very beginning.

[Fishcaek-Chan]

Wait...Does this mean...NO MORE UMINEKO?!?!D':
B-but, that can't be right...Theres so many things I've spoiled and I'ts only come so far...Waaii!D'x I really hope there's a new season..It's not to much to ask for, is it?TT ^ TT

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Oh yea, found this again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juEkoLXXoxo

For the tea party (ending)

Whoaa! That was so pretty! Great job fans, you really know what we all want!xD
Props to that person, I see there's also more of them too? Hopefully that will hold me off until the second season~xD

[maximilianjenus]

I might be the only one but I found the fanvideo to be pretty horrible when compared to the professional version, same about most umineko fan videos except maybe the motion graphics ones.

About beato dropping the game, I think it's because beato is shannon and she discovered that this batler is not the batler she fell in love with 6 years ago, therefore, she has no interest on the game anymore.

[Archon_Wing]

OMG, the fan made one is better than the anime one.

The last episode was extremely disappointing. I would have rather had it end with that wonderful preview. But what the hell is this?

The first part was good I guess. Ange shatters our beliefs by being able to revive Sakutaro... Beatrice is extremely distraught and broke. She must be dragged back in the fight. And this time she doesn't want to play-- her feelings are genuine. Meanwhile Lamba, and Bern are being complete bitches that just see everyone as chess pieces; heavy trolling mode activated!

But then the episode takes a turn downhill. Ange's death was pretty downplayed-- I SERIOUSLY EXPECTED BATTLER TO HAVE A BIGGER REACTION LIKE THAT. What is supposed to be sad, is just another scene that gets pushed aside. That alone causes the episode to tank.

And the final battle; for some reason it just seemed horribly anticlimatic. I have been taking up interest into the Umineko BGM. Though I wasn't aware of what context dreamenddischarger was gonna be played, I figured it'd probaly be something epic near the end. But... ??? The hell?

And the very last part. It kinda happens, but ends up being horribly dry, and it just gets cut off. No emotion, no reaction; everything is rushed to hell.

The revelation at the end that the two witches are in bed-- well, that was pretty amusing and creepy. We also come to the revelation that Beatrice is all alone, and everyone is her enemy. However, it can't really make up for the rest.

5/10 This is a crappy, half-assed way of going out. I understand it would have been rushed, but that just doesn't leave me with good feelings.

[Marion]

You can't compare Higurashi S1 to Umineko S1. Higurashi's first season had 2 answer arcs stuck into it, so of course it'll have some things answered.

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by Fishcaek-Chan

Wait...Does this mean...NO MORE UMINEKO?!?!D':
B-but, that can't be right...Theres so many things I've spoiled and I'ts only come so far...Waaii!D'x I really hope there's a new season..It's not to much to ask for, is it?TT ^ TT



Whoaa! That was so pretty! Great job fans, you really know what we all want!xD
Props to that person, I see there's also more of them too? Hopefully that will hold me off until the second season~xD

Originally Posted by Leinne

do you have the links? I suck at looking for things in nico

We might get a version for the Ep 5 ending as well. (according to wat they said after this) from the fan artists

Here's part 1 and 2
http://hisagi.sakura.ne.jp/umineko_sp/mein.htm

Here's a a description
part1 -前編 (zenpen)-　Ange visiting Golden Land --> Battler announcing restart to game

part2 -後編- (kouhen)- Battler's blue theories vs Beato's red.

video = part 3

[AmyElizzabeth]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

We might get a version for the Ep 5 ending as well. (according to wat they said after this) from the fan artists

Here's part 1 and 2
http://hisagi.sakura.ne.jp/umineko_sp/mein.htm

Here's a a description
part1 -前編 (zenpen)-　Ange visiting Golden Land --> Battler announcing restart to game

part2 -後編- (kouhen)- Battler's blue theories vs Beato's red.

video = part 3

Noob I am..
What should I click

[y0shi]

I agree on the mistery part, it isnt that exiting anymore by now.
At first I really tried to figure out stuff but at some point when you hav like 10 unsolvable murder cases, dead persons walking around, metaworlds, time-dimensions etc etc you just give up. You cant trust ANYTHING at all ever so whats the point of even trying?

I just watched the teaparty novel scene and the fanmade ending and I guess I see where VN readers are coming from. But still I'm not sure if I'll read the novel, the Higurashi novel bored me to tears.

On the other side I HAVE to know how the story goes on.

What I really wonder is, will we ever see future ange again? And is the whole bernkastel-higurashi connection thing just trolling? Because that, no matter how "tricky" it might be would probably just make me abandon the whole thing right there. This is what I really care most about and if it would just turn out to be some stupid trolling... An Idea that just popped in my head, what if the connection is the other way around, Higurashi was kind of a "punishment game" for Bernkastel? Though I guess this was discussed 1000 of times before.


And why is anyone complaining about the missing hug part, IMO it would have made no sence, especially after she tricked him like this before. Why would they suddenly hug? I smell fangirl dreams :/


E:/ Just one thing I forgot to ask, did the whole shannon smashing a mirror thing ever get picked up again in the novel?

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by AmyElizzabeth

Noob I am..
What should I click

get both. Listen to part 1 then 2 then watch vid again.
Then compare to anime ep 26...

Oh yea, the music used in the drama is basically wat the VN tracks are, had they been placed exactly as the game (if anyone is curious)

Unfortunately, I couldn't find the posted video on youtube on the last chapter of Ep4 of game and I lack the software to record off the game.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by y0shi

And why is anyone complaining about the missing hug part, IMO it would have made no sence, especially after she tricked him like this before. Why would they suddenly hug? I smell fangirl dreams :/

Its not about fangirl dreams. They DID actually hug at the end of it all, with Battler promising to solve the riddle and kill her. He DID actually feel sympathy for her and felt guilty for dragging out her death.

[Midnight Bliss]

I don't think it should be like outright RAAAAAGE I HATE THIS for this episode.
Of course, it'd be a dissapointment for some parts, having Chiaki Kon as director and DEEN making the anime.
Okay, so Battler and Beatrice didn't hug. Big whoop, sure huge Battler X Beatrice fans got depressed, but that wasn't like a plot changing thing to happen. I'm sure in Chiru especially there will be Battler X Beatrice.
They missed an important part: Battler discovering Maria's corpse, and not Kanon's. They could've removed the crappy ending song for this, it was a major important thing.
The episode did lack emotions in many parts, including Ange's death in which in the vn I found myself on the verge of tears.
Animation was excellent in my opinion, and I always loved the anime art for Umineko. They covered most of the important things necessary to be shown. They could have made the anime longer so they have more of a chance to get sale raises for a Chiru adaptation and to cover more, but oh well.
Overall, I give it a 7/10.
I beleive I heard Dreamenddischarger around when Kinzo's dragon shows up.

[Excorsism]

Originally Posted by Midnight Bliss

I don't think it should be like outright RAAAAAGE I HATE THIS for this episode.
Of course, it'd be a dissapointment for some parts, having Chiaki Kon as director and DEEN making the anime.
Okay, so Battler and Beatrice didn't hug. Big whoop, sure huge Battler X Beatrice fans got depressed, but that wasn't like a plot changing thing to happen. I'm sure in Chiru especially there will be Battler X Beatrice.
They missed an important part: Battler discovering Maria's corpse, and not Kanon's. They could've removed the crappy ending song for this, it was a major important thing.
The episode did lack emotions in many parts, including Ange's death in which in the vn I found myself on the verge of tears.
Animation was excellent in my opinion, and I always loved the anime art for Umineko. They covered most of the important things necessary to be shown. They could have made the anime longer so they have more of a chance to get sale raises for a Chiru adaptation and to cover more, but oh well.
Overall, I give it a 7/10.
I beleive I heard Dreamenddischarger around when Kinzo's dragon shows up.

What is the significance behind discovering George and Maria's corpse? I realize that the four cousins, after the incident, went missing but I can't connect the dots. If it's spoilerific, spoiler tag it or PM it to me, por favor.

[gameboy234]

Is there a s2? I'm so confused.