AnimeSuki Forums

Yazakura · 2006-02-28, 21:50

If some Mai Otome character asked Nagi why he wanted to rule the academy, besides ending up stating the given fact that he wants to destroy the world, would he have any actual ligit reasons to do so? Does the guy know what he's doing, and what people he's hurting? Or is he just a rookie leader, hungry for endless power, like the (USA) President or other leaders of a country?

coefficient · 2006-02-28, 23:38

I'm pretty sure that this is all a power grab. Artai's primary weakness is its lack of Otomes; that puts them on the bottom rung of the international ladder. Which means they probably get stepped on - a lot. So by pulling the bait-and-switch with Schwartz he can usurp Garderobe's technology and pump out Otomes by the truckload, catapulting Artai (and himself) to the head of the world.

Good intentions? Well, he serves his country really well and has transformed it into a superpower in the present tenuous system. Does that make him evil? Probably not.

SoldierOfDarkness · 2006-03-01, 00:08

I'm not so sure because as Nao said, Artai got a good deal with Otomes in Garderobe. In a year or 2 they would have their Otomes just like anyone else. Not only that but Artai has a representative on the council so to say that people step on Artai isn't correct as none of the other representatives say anything bad to Sergay or for that matter.

The main reason why Nagi did this was because of his dream, to return the planet to its golden age. He wants that technology back and to spread it out because he has issues with how Garderobe deals with situations like having two little girls go at it.

I have no doubt that if Takumi had known about such secrets, he probably would've tried to do the same as well or at least pushed for it but not go to the extremes as Nagi is doing.

Kenji_Chaos · 2006-03-01, 01:59

lolz we are talking abou nagi ere!!
i dont think he has good intentions
pratically it is obvious he is doing for his own benefits..
he wants the power to rule the world!

PwrSerge · 2006-03-01, 03:18

The point that we're missing is WHY. An evil man desires power over others so that he can dominate them. A good man seeks power to help others. With Nagi we're in that strange grey area. His means are without a doubt foul, however do his ends justify them? We just don't know. He's definately stirring things up, but the question of why remains unanswered.

Given that he might well be the SAME nagi from MH... (See strange shapes on his back in the beach episode.)

SERGE

-KarumA- · 2006-03-01, 08:43

Ruling over the world would give him a oppertunity to help people without other coutry leades interference, let alone no more wars

but Nagi isnt good, im telling you that >.< though i wonder what he is

like Pwrserge said (See strange shapes on his back in the beach episode.)
but i do not think its the SAME Nagi, i think he's not human or something else non human but not normally born like normal creatures

coefficient · 2006-03-01, 09:04

Hey, he's the leader of his country. His job is to advance its interests, and he's doing that VERY well.

SoldierOfDarkness · 2006-03-01, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by PwrSerge

The point that we're missing is WHY. An evil man desires power over others so that he can dominate them. A good man seeks power to help others. With Nagi we're in that strange grey area. His means are without a doubt foul, however do his ends justify them? We just don't know. He's definately stirring things up, but the question of why remains unanswered.

Given that he might well be the SAME nagi from MH... (See strange shapes on his back in the beach episode.)

SERGE

I'm thinking more of the seeking power to help others which again was to give back that technology that Garderobe sealed. He hasn't exactly gone out and killed people to gain it, in fact very little casualties was caused by it, if any.

On the other hand, the others seemed willing to kill.

Of course, one could argue that his actions are "misguided" but were talking about his intentions.

And exactly what are those strange shapes on his back suppose to be?

PwrSerge · 2006-03-01, 11:58

Look at MIYU's back when she wakes up from the "coffin" in MH. It looks like Nagi had some sort of cables stuck in his back. Perhaps our good albino friend spend the interviening centuries frozen in some sort of machine?

SERGE

Preston · 2006-03-01, 12:27

Without reading much of your post, I can tell you that this was simply one of Nagi's sly political tactics. You just have to listen to him; and the rest of the characters lap it up. "My dream.. no.. mine and Sergei's dream." "Father's dream?" I laughed aloud at this point. You've got to love Nagi's manipulative ways.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2006-03-01, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by PwrSerge

Look at MIYU's back when she wakes up from the "coffin" in MH. It looks like Nagi had some sort of cables stuck in his back. Perhaps our good albino friend spend the interviening centuries frozen in some sort of machine?

SERGE

Nah... I don't think MH Nagi needed a stasis chamber to survive a few hundred years. Normal people don't become the servant of the Obsidian Lord.

Nagi might ended up becoming like one of the characters in the RG Veda manga. Someone who appeared to be evil, and IS evil in the sense that he quite happily orders executions of women and children, and occasional feed the corpses of said children to his hunting dogs. But is in fact the lesser of the two evils, and that if he was ever removed from power, the world is doomed.

... Nah... This story isn't made by CLAMP. Nagi is most likely just plain evil. But still, it's fun to imagine things.

SoldierOfDarkness · 2006-03-01, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Preston

Without reading much of your post, I can tell you that this was simply one of Nagi's sly political tactics. You just have to listen to him; and the rest of the characters lap it up. "My dream.. no.. mine and Sergei's dream." "Father's dream?" I laughed aloud at this point. You've got to love Nagi's manipulative ways.

Because it is

Remember the letter that Nagi sent to Sergay, "to fulfill our dream"

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2006-03-01, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Because it is

Remember the letter that Nagi sent to Sergay, "to fulfill our dream"

That would be like telling a janitor in a company you own that "this is our company".

Sergay serves Nagi, therefore whatever Nagi wants theoretically is also transfered to Sergay as his needs.

SoldierOfDarkness · 2006-03-01, 22:14

So I guess we should throw out that flashback where Nagi shows Sergay his plans and he agrees to join him? (The part where he offers his services?) Apparently that was his choice alone.

Tempest35 · 2006-03-01, 22:16

I think that there is nearly always a double meaning to what Nagi says. ^^

When Sergay swore allegience to Nagi when they were younger, Sergay was putting his dream in with Nagi's, thus combining their dreams together even if they had different inital angles going into it.

I think that Nagi really thinks highly of Sergay (despite his harsh words from time to time)- we know that he wouldn't have made Sergay his right hand man for nothing if he didn't think highly of him. Nagi's prepared for betrayal, even from his point man, and he's steeled himself against it by acting the way he does. He knows that Sergay won't cop out of this now, despite his feelings. Nagi just doesn't know how much a man's younger years with the woman/girl (Rena/Mai) he likes can shape him.
Would be poetic irony if Sergay promised Rena and/or Mai something that would conflict with something Nagi does.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2006-03-01, 22:40

If it's a choice between the promise to a girl I love or wants and needs of my boss, I would chose the girl.

Tempest35 · 2006-03-01, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

If it's a choice between the promise to a girl I love or wants and needs of my boss, I would chose the girl.

Here here! Especially if it a choice between Nagi or Mai.
Mai all the way baby!

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2006-03-01, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempest35

Here here! Especially if it a choice between Nagi or Mai.
Mai all the way baby!

Rena was who I had in mind, but yeah.

There is no time left to make Mai a love interest, I think...

Anyway, I wonder if Nagi can survive MO... We still haven't found out if there is an efficient way to break a contract between Meister and Master without consent of those involved, and we need Nina to live...

Anime Adoru · 2006-03-02, 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

The main reason why Nagi did this was because of his dream, to return the planet to its golden age. He wants that technology back and to spread it out because he has issues with how Garderobe deals with situations like having two little girls go at it.

That's what he said at the end of the episode 20, and the complaints about the power in the hands of teenage girls are well understood too.

Where did you hear he wants to spread the technology rather than just keep it for himself?

Any idea what "golden age" really means here?

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2006-03-02, 05:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anime Adoru

Any idea what "golden age" really means here?

The return of the (MH) Golden Millennium, perhaps?

Maybe Nagi wants to take over Shwartz...

2006-02-28, 21:50	Link #1
Yazakura Enigma of Nothing Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle WA, USA	Nagi: The proud, the bratty, and good intentions?! If some Mai Otome character asked Nagi why he wanted to rule the academy, besides ending up stating the given fact that he wants to destroy the world, would he have any actual ligit reasons to do so? Does the guy know what he's doing, and what people he's hurting? Or is he just a rookie leader, hungry for endless power, like the (USA) President or other leaders of a country? Last edited by Yazakura; 2006-02-28 at 22:35.

2006-03-01, 22:40	Link #16
Vallen Chaos Valiant Logician and Romantic Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Within my mind Age: 43	If it's a choice between the promise to a girl I love or wants and needs of my boss, I would chose the girl. __________________

2006-02-28, 23:38	Link #2
coefficient Member Join Date: Feb 2006	I'm pretty sure that this is all a power grab. Artai's primary weakness is its lack of Otomes; that puts them on the bottom rung of the international ladder. Which means they probably get stepped on - a lot. So by pulling the bait-and-switch with Schwartz he can usurp Garderobe's technology and pump out Otomes by the truckload, catapulting Artai (and himself) to the head of the world. Good intentions? Well, he serves his country really well and has transformed it into a superpower in the present tenuous system. Does that make him evil? Probably not.

2006-03-01, 00:08	Link #3
SoldierOfDarkness The Dark Knight Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think? Age: 38	I'm not so sure because as Nao said, Artai got a good deal with Otomes in Garderobe. In a year or 2 they would have their Otomes just like anyone else. Not only that but Artai has a representative on the council so to say that people step on Artai isn't correct as none of the other representatives say anything bad to Sergay or for that matter. The main reason why Nagi did this was because of his dream, to return the planet to its golden age. He wants that technology back and to spread it out because he has issues with how Garderobe deals with situations like having two little girls go at it. I have no doubt that if Takumi had known about such secrets, he probably would've tried to do the same as well or at least pushed for it but not go to the extremes as Nagi is doing.

2006-03-01, 01:59	Link #4
Kenji_Chaos Member Join Date: Dec 2004	lolz we are talking abou nagi ere!! i dont think he has good intentions pratically it is obvious he is doing for his own benefits.. he wants the power to rule the world!

2006-03-01, 03:18	Link #5
PwrSerge It's good to be evil... Join Date: Feb 2006	The point that we're missing is WHY. An evil man desires power over others so that he can dominate them. A good man seeks power to help others. With Nagi we're in that strange grey area. His means are without a doubt foul, however do his ends justify them? We just don't know. He's definately stirring things up, but the question of why remains unanswered. Given that he might well be the SAME nagi from MH... (See strange shapes on his back in the beach episode.) SERGE

2006-03-01, 08:43	Link #6
-KarumA- (｡☉౪ ⊙｡) Author Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In Maya world, where all is 3D and everything crashes Age: 36	Ruling over the world would give him a oppertunity to help people without other coutry leades interference, let alone no more wars but Nagi isnt good, im telling you that >.< though i wonder what he is like Pwrserge said (See strange shapes on his back in the beach episode.) but i do not think its the SAME Nagi, i think he's not human or something else non human but not normally born like normal creatures

2006-03-01, 09:04	Link #7
coefficient Member Join Date: Feb 2006	Hey, he's the leader of his country. His job is to advance its interests, and he's doing that VERY well.

2006-03-01, 11:58	Link #9
PwrSerge It's good to be evil... Join Date: Feb 2006	Look at MIYU's back when she wakes up from the "coffin" in MH. It looks like Nagi had some sort of cables stuck in his back. Perhaps our good albino friend spend the interviening centuries frozen in some sort of machine? SERGE

2006-03-01, 12:27	Link #10
Preston I am the lies in you. Author Join Date: Dec 2005	Without reading much of your post, I can tell you that this was simply one of Nagi's sly political tactics. You just have to listen to him; and the rest of the characters lap it up. "My dream.. no.. mine and Sergei's dream." "Father's dream?" I laughed aloud at this point. You've got to love Nagi's manipulative ways.

2006-03-01, 22:14	Link #14
SoldierOfDarkness The Dark Knight Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think? Age: 38	So I guess we should throw out that flashback where Nagi shows Sergay his plans and he agrees to join him? (The part where he offers his services?) Apparently that was his choice alone.

2006-03-01, 22:16	Link #15
Tempest35 Awe of She Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Orlando	I think that there is nearly always a double meaning to what Nagi says. ^^ When Sergay swore allegience to Nagi when they were younger, Sergay was putting his dream in with Nagi's, thus combining their dreams together even if they had different inital angles going into it. I think that Nagi really thinks highly of Sergay (despite his harsh words from time to time)- we know that he wouldn't have made Sergay his right hand man for nothing if he didn't think highly of him. Nagi's prepared for betrayal, even from his point man, and he's steeled himself against it by acting the way he does. He knows that Sergay won't cop out of this now, despite his feelings. Nagi just doesn't know how much a man's younger years with the woman/girl (Rena/Mai) he likes can shape him. Would be poetic irony if Sergay promised Rena and/or Mai something that would conflict with something Nagi does.