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View Poll Results: Who’s Under the Mask? | |||
Madara | 104 | 32.91% | |
Madara’s Son | 14 | 4.43% | |
Madara’s Clone | 30 | 9.49% | |
Madara’s Ghost/Soul/Poltergeist given shape... | 33 | 10.44% | |
Obito | 59 | 18.67% | |
Obito’s Body, but not really Obito... | 55 | 17.41% | |
Someone else’s body (not Obito’s)... | 21 | 6.65% | |
Zetsu’s Love Child... | 23 | 7.28% | |
Tobirama/Sarutobi/or anyone with a 'tobi' in their name... | 16 | 5.06% | |
Bruce Wayne or other… | 69 | 21.84% | |
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 316. You may not vote on this poll |
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2010-07-20, 16:44 | Link #221 | |
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Didn't Minato just went: "Are you Madara? But you're dead lol?" in chapter 502? We were told that Madara was dead. We were told that Itachi was evil. We were told that Madara stole Izuna eye. We were told a lot of things that turned out to be false, especially when they're flashbacks. |
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2010-07-20, 17:10 | Link #222 | |
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Additionally, we saw Obito die (or at least we saw him seconds away from death, then a pull back as the rocks crushing him finished the job) and we saw Izuna's body laid out in a coffin, so taking those instance as well as the data book entries that list them as being dead, the only conclusion that we can draw is that the two characters are dead. That doesn't mean their bodies couldn't have been used for nefarious purposes (the Jyuubi took over the bodies, etc) or they couldn't have been resurrected (via Edo Tensei, etc), but with the information we have now, the statement "Obito/Izuna is dead" is fact, anything else is speculation and should be treated as such (of course, speculation can become fact over time, but right now "Obito/Izuna" is dead is still fact). Last edited by james0246; 2010-07-20 at 17:22. |
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2010-07-20, 20:26 | Link #223 |
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Don't assume dead = dead with this series. How many characters have immortality or were brought back to life? Gaara was dead. Zabuza was thought dead. Kakashi was dead. Many Konoha ninjas were dead and then brought back to life by Nagato. Orochimaru was thought to be dead, before being killed again. And then how recently was it that Kisame died? I mean, we saw his head get cut off, so he must be dead, right? Nope.
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2010-07-20, 20:41 | Link #224 | |
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Last edited by james0246; 2010-07-20 at 21:13. |
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2010-07-20, 22:22 | Link #226 | |
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2010-07-20, 22:45 | Link #227 | ||
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Last edited by Hiking_Bear; 2010-07-20 at 23:16. |
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2010-07-21, 00:23 | Link #228 | |
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That being said, if the data books wish to be ambiguous, they will be (for instance, it was not confirmed if Kushina was alive or dead, the information was intentionally left vague so as to leave room for the eventual reveal of her character). Otherwise the entries are pretty straight forward (and sadly, Obito's and Izuna's info isn't very ambiguous). So, if they claim Izuna and Obito are dead, then we are left with their death as fact. That doesn't mean that they couldn't have been resurrected, but there is no actual evidence that points specifically to that speculation... Last edited by james0246; 2010-07-21 at 00:58. |
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2010-07-21, 10:29 | Link #229 | ||
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2010-07-21, 11:47 | Link #230 | ||
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(Also, who says Tobi is actually an Uchiha? Just because he has a Sharingan?) That being said, instead of focusing on the fact I acknowledge a character's death, why don't you focus on the fact that I equally acknowledge the potential for rebirth? What just because I wish to acknowledge the facts of the situation that means I refuse to acknowledge legitimate speculation? No. I am more than happy to debate the possibility of Obito/Izuna's resurrection, but if you aren't even willing to acknowledge that the basic fact of their deaths is known, then holding any conversation with you is pointless. Quote:
(That being said, the Tobi entry specifically said that Madara was Tobi (and the Madara entry said that he was disguised as Tobi), so, realistically, an answer has already been provided, it’s just that many of us refuse to accept the answer due to the mystery of the mask.) Why couldn’t he have added ambiguity to the entry on Obito's death (as he added ambiguity to several other very important character bios in the past)? Kishimoto and his editors go out of their way to make the data books compliant with the story and even the possibility of a story. Many entries are either left blank or purposely vague so as to leave room for even the potential of story to be revealed in the future, even if said potential never actually amounts to anything (i.e. Karin's and Danzou's entries were left vague, and now we know that neither reveal was very interesting; but Nagato's entry was also left vague to stupendous results). So why couldn’t he have done the same thing with Obito, especially considering that when the second book came out (which is the data book that indexed Obito’s role in the story), Tobi hadn’t even been introduced? |
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2010-07-21, 19:41 | Link #231 | ||||||
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- Similarity between Kamui and Tobi's warping ability - Zetsu still refers to Tobi as Tobi, and earlier referred to him as a 'boy'. How many boy Uchihas do we know? Sasuke, Itachi, maybe Shisui, and then Obito. - From what we know about Tobi's body, his right arm was artificial (created by Zetsu) and the right side of his face is full of creases/striations (also similar to White Zetsu's face). Now let's ask ourselves who could be missing parts of the right side of their body? Certainly Obito would, since his right half was crushed by rocks. - The name: There are at least a couple characters with "tobi" in their name (Sarutobi, Tobirama). But what matters is the characters that are used. And the characters in Sarutobi and Tobirama don't match those of Tobi. However, Obito's do. Quote:
cf. Chapter 500 "Who is this masked man?" Quote:
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2010-07-22, 01:01 | Link #232 | |||||
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Ah, but if the Sharingan/MS turns out to be a streamlined ability (i.e. all Uchiha posses the same basic abilities (which is the currently accepted speculation)), then the similarity becomes a moot point. In the end, the similarity does not necessitate Obito's existence. Additionally, even if it turns out to be an Obito exclusive that still doesn't mean that Tobi is Obito. Tobi/Madara has a wall of Sharingan eyes, so it is just as likely that Obito's eye could have been taken leaving Obito's body to rot (or if Zetsu is around, be eaten). (If the speculation that Zetsu = Tobi turns out to be true, then it is easy to hypothesize that Zetsu ate Obito and reconstructed an Uchiha body from the dead Obito...but that still means Obito is not Tobi .) Quote:
Additionally, Zetsu's use of "boy" could just as easily be a carryover from when Tobi acted like a childish fool. In other words, it’s a joke that Zetsu has kept up. Honestly, the comment need be only as deep as each audience member wishes it to be. Nothing about it actually indicates anything (though I fully admit it could act as very deep foreshadowing for an eventual reveal, but until such a reveal the comments mean very little). Quote:
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Additionally, just two chapters later the question was answered : Madara. That being said, even if it did matter, that still doesn't necessarily indicate Obito. As I have said many times, there is ample evidence that Tobi could potentially be someone or something besides Madara, I just don't see Obito as being a frotrunner in the "Who is Tobi" debate. Honestly, the only reason we actually think Tobi could be someone besides Madara is because of the mask. But, when you really think about it, is that even a reason to suspect otherwise? Specifically, Kakashi has 75% of his face covered, yet no-one doubts that he is Kakashi, why can't it be the same for Tobi/Madara? In the end, Kishimoto said, yet again in the third data book, that Madara will ditch the mask when he sets his ambitions in motion. Assuming that the war is the official start of Madara's plans, we could be seeing Madara's face in just a few chapters... --- Personally, I'm surprised there haven't been more Kagami Uchiha theories in this thread/sub-forum... Last edited by james0246; 2010-07-22 at 02:10. |
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2010-07-22, 20:07 | Link #233 | ||||||||||||
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Minato: Are you Uchiha Madara? Tobi: Yes. (takes mask off). Tell him what he's won Quote:
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2010-07-22, 21:39 | Link #234 | ||||
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Where? Your last post in this thread briefly mentioned Zetsu as being relevant, but you did not argue that Zetsu created Tobi from Obito. Quote:
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The editorial comment was not, or at least I did not read it as, an actual question (from the author) as to the identity of the mysterious masked man, rather it reflected the tension that Minato and Kushina felt (must the same as the editorial comments in the past predicting the deaths of Naruto or Sasuke were not meant to be taken literally, but rather as comments to emphasize mood, etc). |
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2010-07-23, 00:12 | Link #235 | |||||||
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2010-07-23, 01:16 | Link #236 | ||||||
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That being said, Zetsu is a plantman of some sort, and if he is anything like Swamp Thing, then he could be immortal for all we know Quote:
That being said, I see no reason why Zetsu couldn't call Tobi "boy" solely for comedic effect. Zetsu does have a split personality after all, so it’s not like he is 100% sane. Additionally, I've acknowledged for quite awhile (and you've even provided evidence of this by digging up an old post) that Zetsu and Tobi have a special relationship, I just don't see why Obito has to be involved (the argument I used before, which is still valid, is the ease by which Tobi replaces missing pieces). Quote:
And, once again, I do not like physical appearance arguments. I consider them to be bad writing, not because they are not logical or unfounded (they can be quite logical), but because they are too simplistic. Good character development isn't based around hair style or height, but motivation and actions. So, the similarity between an eye hole and a crushed eye reads as a red herring to me (obviously not to you). Quote:
That being said, considering that most of the comments to be made have been made months ago (sorry I forgot about you), I'm going to stop discussing for now. When some new info is revealed, I'll be more than happy to continue the discussion (it's been fun, and ever since Killer Bee developed a life, I've been left bored without adequate long discussions ). |
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2010-07-23, 21:00 | Link #239 | |||||||||
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I'm basing my speculation of a Tobi-Obito connection off of the similarity of Kamui to Tobi's space/time tech. Yours is a speculation based on nothing, or rather a speculation based on another speculation.
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Secondly, how can it be more simplistic than guy-who-says-he's-Madara = Madara? That's as dumbed down as it gets. Quote:
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