How can you not like Sasuke?

[sheen]

Originally Posted by nh1

Do you feel that Naruto's attitude/words are inapropriate? If not, then why be mad at him for being arrogant? I feel that Sasuke's attitude/words are sometimes inapropriate. Needless to say, I don't think Naruto's actions and words are inapropriate at all.

I'm not understanding what you say. What I'm saying is: people brush off Naruto's arrogance as geniun while they hammer on Sasuke for the same arrogance, but because Naruto is 'meant to be a comedic' character, his actions are dismissed. That should not be true; while Naruto is 'meant to be a comedic character,' he is still being arrogant.

It's just rubbing off differently on the audience because of the extreme personality difference of Naruto and Sasuke, but that doesn't mean Naruto is in reality being anymore modest.

No, neither character should be excused for their actions.

Though I can put into another light. Sasuke has been expected to be great all his life, so it's only logical that he would expect more of himself. On the other hand, while Naruto has been put down many times, yet he himself put other people down when he knows first hand what it feels like.

Originally Posted by nh1

What do you mean? His attitude? No, I don't believe that Sasuke runs around yelling at everyone and picking fights. But he kind of lets out what he thinks of Naruto and I don't see why that should have changed.

You have to understand that Sasuke is losing it. What he thinks of Naruto has changed. From someone he hates at the beginning, they have become close even though they are rivals. Seeing someone that was the deadlast of the class beat someone who you hardly wounded, seeing that same someone be of importance to someone who you have looked up to for all your life and has killed your entire clan, to reliving the day that your entiring clan being whipped out AGAIN does not exactly leave you on sane grounds.

Say you went through something traumatic, you go around screaming and being hysterical. Screaming and being hysterical isn't something that you would do on a normal basis.

Bottom line: he's fucked up.

Originally Posted by UserName

.... Look at when Sasuke doesn't succeed after he is 'arrogant'. Look at Naruto if you consider him arrogance.

And he never thinks he can just outright wins. He just knows that with enough will power he can win. Sasuke comes in thinking he can just own the person.

Learn the definition of both and judge it by their actions, not by their talk at the very beginning.

You can tell arrogance and confidense from their reaction. Your sarcasm sucks... and it isn't just your sarcasm...

After Sasuke doesn't succeed? The asshole trains.

And what does Naruto do? He trains. And when has Naruto really lost a fight? He is destined to succeed.

Sasuke's full of himself? Naruto goes into the Chuunin exam and, "I will not lose to anyone one of you here." Sasuke on the other hand thinks about the stronger people here wants to test measure himself against them.

Now, shut up and give me some examples to back up your claims. My sucking is not make up for your lack of empathy.

[Lost World]

Originally Posted by UserName

You can tell arrogance and confidense from their reaction. Your sarcasm sucks... and it isn't just your sarcasm...

Hahahah, No one's gonna take your pathetic argument seriously now.

[UserName]

Example. Against Zabuza... heh wah I'm so strong. 5 minutes later. "I want to kill myself". Against Gaara. Haha I'm strong, i'm owning you. Then gaara did that attack, I better be careful, they leave. Heh you suck I'm running away. Gaara partly transforms. 'I'm going to die I'm going to die'. Against Naruto. Weakling I want to beat you up. At the end of the fight. "Man I suck, I must run away'. Against Oro he stopped just like that, but he did fight back but only because of naruto.

Naruto. He keeps on going in the fight. He never gives up. He never says he can 'own' anyone. He thinks he can win. But he knows he can't 'own' anyone. He knows to win takes hardwork and willpower.

Sasuke on the other hand doesn't.

Sasuke is a lot more arrogant than Naruto. Naruto is arrogant sometimes as i said If you're stupidity didn't look over it, but he's more confident. Sasuke is over confident all the time.

LostWorld. HOw is my argument pathetic?

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by nh1

I didn't get the "And not the way around", but whatever.

People keep saying that they hate Sasuke because he's cocky, i say that it's obviously wrong and that they can't handle his cockyness because they already hate him.

Obviously not for Sasuke. His feelings are still there. He doesn't want to accept that Naruto is strong.

Which has nothing to see with looking down on someone, yeah Sasuke can't accept that Naruto is stronger than him, that's the principle of competition and rival, exactly as Naruto couldn't accept that Sasuke was stronger than him.

Oh right. Neji's attitude towards Hinata and Lee was pretty much justified, since they were afterall weak.

To compare the relation of Sasuke and Naruto to the relation Neji/Hinata is nothing but laughable, at least the relation Neji/Lee has the rival thingy even if Neji was way more arrogant and never even doubt that Lee wasn't one of his peer.

Oh and btw yeah it was pretty much justified in the case Naruto/Sasuke at the beginning, when a guy can't stop to shout that he will be the greatest ninja ever and starts his mission by being frozen in fear against the first opponents it's normal to mock him as being a scared kitty.
Which is by the way about the only 'disrespecting' thing that Sasuke said to Naruto in the first volumes.

I thought you said 7.

Where did I say 7?

To himself, yes.You don't get it. In Sasuke's opinion, Naruto should be weaker than him (He looks down on Naruto). Unfortunately for Sasuke, Naruto exceeds him in power, but that's just a bad coincidence.

That's just a bullshit nh1, when Sasuke admitted that he was inferior to Naruto he was just thinking how he could grow that sort of power as well and not that it was impossible for Naruto to be stronger and that it was unfair or stupid stuff like that.

That's exactly what i talk about, you dislike Sasuke => you made up reason to dislike him even more.

I'm sure he did, but did anyone take him seriously? He might've been serious, but I don't think any of the other characters cared. To me that seems perfectly harmless.

You mean as when the whole bunch of guy of the Chuunin exam looked at them angrily because of Naruto's show off?
When Jiraiya shouted to him to stob being stupid when he was saying that he was going to seek Itachi?

Besides since when you're not arrogant because people doesn't take you seriously anyway?

Spoiler:

And yeah I'm sure Chouji didn't mind being looked down by Naruto : he's used to that anyway.

Spoiler:

So that was not Sasuke on the rooftop? Kishimoto thought Sasuke's personality was different? I guess you proved him wrong

What part of the word usual didn't you understand?
If you think that it's the same way Sasuke used to be then what about some example of the same attitude earlier in the manga?

[Lost World]

Originally Posted by UserName

LostWorld. HOw is my argument pathetic?

Your argument becomes pathetic when you resort to personal insults. It's sad that you feel a need to take this cartoon so seriously so as to resort to calling people names.

[UserName]

Originally Posted by Lost World

Your argument becomes pathetic when you resort to personal insults. It's sad that you feel a need to take this cartoon so seriously so as to resort to calling people names.

I belive I was insulted first... funny when I like this cartoon a lot less than most people who don't hate it.

I consider it an insult when you say, I think that thing is cool. And someone says in an 'assy' way "Yes that is very very cool" "as cool as you". Sarcasm can be insulting.

[sheen]

Originally Posted by UserName

Example. Against Zabuza... heh wah I'm so strong. 5 minutes later. "I want to kill myself". Against Gaara. Haha I'm strong, i'm owning you. Then gaara did that attack, I better be careful, they leave. Heh you suck I'm running away. Gaara partly transforms. 'I'm going to die I'm going to die'. Against Naruto. Weakling I want to beat you up. At the end of the fight. "Man I suck, I must run away'. Against Oro he stopped just like that, but he did fight back but only because of naruto.

Naruto. He keeps on going in the fight. He never gives up. He never says he can 'own' anyone. He thinks he can win. But he knows he can't 'own' anyone. He knows to win takes hardwork and willpower.

Sasuke on the other hand doesn't.

Sasuke is a lot more arrogant than Naruto. Naruto is arrogant sometimes as i said If you're stupidity didn't look over it, but he's more confident. Sasuke is over confident all the time.

LostWorld. HOw is my argument pathetic?

That's so ignorant.

Against Zabuza. What the hell are you talking about? Naruto was the one who wanted to charge Zabuza and then he wanted to run away until he remembered that he swore he would never run away again.

Against Gaara. Since when did Naruto never go into a fight bullshitting about him winning and kick the shit out of everyone? Again, coming from Naruto it's determination and confidence but from Sasuke's its downright arrogance.

Against Naruto. He didn't leave the village because of the fight. It was all the events prior and after the fight that escalated his need to become strong regardless of everything else. Again, you're real empathic.

Against Orochimaru. He was frozen by killer intent. Orochimaru is a goddamn legendary physhopath. Kakashi was in fear of him. The 3rd was in fear that he wasn't able to protect the village if Orochimaru attacks. Naruto doesn't run away and wasn't afraid because he just so happens to have a undying determination like no other. Or in some cases, he's just stupid.

Sasuke talks trash about beating other people = Arrogance
Sasuke Naruto talks trash about beating other people = Confidence.

[Lost World]

Originally Posted by sheen

Against Zabuza. What the hell are you talking about? Naruto was the one who wanted to charge Zabuza and then he wanted to run away until he remembered that he swore he would never run away again.

Against Gaara. Since when did Naruto never go into a fight bullshitting about him winning and kick the shit out of everyone? Again, coming from Naruto it's determination and confidence but from Sasuke's its downright arrogance.
.

And seriosuly, did every one of these Naruto fans forget that Naruto was "piss-his-pants" scared of Gaara much more than Sasuke was. Was his battlecry not "goddamnit!" when he realized that he was the only one who could fight him? Was he not screaming at Kakashi to stop Gaara vs Sasuke's match because he believed Gaara to be a monster who could not be stopped?

[UserName]

Originally Posted by sheen

That's so ignorant.

Against Zabuza. What the hell are you talking about? Naruto was the one who wanted to charge Zabuza and then he wanted to run away until he remembered that he swore he would never run away again.

Against Gaara. Since when did Naruto never go into a fight bullshitting about him winning and kick the shit out of everyone? Again, coming from Naruto it's determination and confidence but from Sasuke's its downright arrogance.

Against Naruto. He didn't leave the village because of the fight. It was all the events prior and after the fight that escalated his need to become strong regardless of everything else. Again, you're real empathic.

Sasuke talks trash about beating other people = Arrogance
Sasuke Naruto talks trash about beating other people = Confidence.

No it isn't ignore. Well I don't like calling people who don't agree ith me 100% ignorant... maybe it's just me.

Did Naruto give up? Sasuke did and he was heavily pressured... again I didn't say Naruto isn't arrogant. Sasuke is a lot more arrogant.

Against Gaara he knew he won't easily win. he didn't even know he would win.So you are wrong there. Sasuke on the toher hand thought he could walk all over him and when he didn't he paniced.

He left the village because he is weak minded(well that is so obvious, there is no debating that). He was arrogant against Naruto. THe second he thought he isn't so strong he panics.

Sasuke says stuff, thinks he can own, he realizes he can't, he panics 70% of the time.

Naruto says stuff, doesn't think he can own 80% of the time or rather more, he doesn't have to realize he can lose, he knows that hardwork is needed, but if he underestimated them he won't panic.

Naruto gets strong. Sasuke panics.

EDIT:

LostWorld. Naruto never though he can own Gaara. He was like that from the beginning. He wasn't more scared then Sasuke was after he realizes that Gaara wasn't as weak as he thought he was.

That's another point. Sasuke thinks a lot ofpeople weak, Naruto doesn't.

[Lost World]

Originally Posted by UserName

LostWorld. Naruto never though he can own Gaara. He was like that from the beginning. He wasn't more scared then Sasuke was after he realizes that Gaara wasn't as weak as he thought he was.
.

Man, you are ignorant, or you like to ignore details. Naruto was all gung-ho about taking Gaara out in the hospital room UNTIL Gaara revealed that he had a demon inside him. That's when he froze up like a little girl. He didn't understand how Lee could have lost to him! He didn't show fear at all until he learned about the demon inside him.

[UserName]

Originally Posted by Lost World

Man, you are ignorant, or you like to ignore details. Naruto was all gung-ho about taking Gaara out in the hospital room UNTIL Gaara revealed that he had a demon inside him. That's when he froze up like a little girl. He didn't understand how Lee could have lost to him! He didn't show fear at all until he learned about the demon inside him.

He never thought he could own Gaara. And he never thought Gaara weak like Sasuke is.

Stopped calling me ingorant. You make yourself seem more like an idiot.

[sheen]

Originally Posted by UserName

No it isn't ignore. Well I don't like calling people who don't agree ith me 100% ignorant... maybe it's just me.

Did Naruto give up? Sasuke did and he was heavily pressured... again I didn't say Naruto isn't arrogant. Sasuke is a lot more arrogant.

Against Gaara he knew he won't easily win. he didn't even know he would win.So you are wrong there. Sasuke on the toher hand thought he could walk all over him and when he didn't he paniced.

He left the village because he is weak minded(well that is so obvious, there is no debating that). He was arrogant against Naruto. THe second he thought he isn't so strong he panics.

Sasuke says stuff, thinks he can own, he realizes he can't, he panics 70% of the time.

Naruto says stuff, doesn't think he can own 80% of the time or rather more, he doesn't have to realize he can lose, he knows that hardwork is needed, but if he underestimated them he won't panic.

Naruto gets strong. Sasuke panics.

You fucking fool.

Naruto didn't give up and Sasuke gave up in what situation? That has nothing to do with arrogance. And in any case, Naruto is much more arrogant than Sasuke is going by their actions.

You're saying how Naruto gets strong after he fears and Sasuke panics. Did he not say "If I die, it means that this is my limit...I don't want to lose everythin again [something along those lines]." Since when did that translate into "I'm better than everyone."

He was willing to give up his dream, his reason for existance TWICE for his friends.

He left the village because he was weakminded? I want to see your brother kill your whole family when you're seven. Your brother being someone that you have looked up to for your whole life. Not only did he have to kill them, he makes you watch him kill your parents over and over and again. Along comes Orochimaru comes in and slap a curse seal on you which warps you judgement. Gaara comes along and reminds you of your purpose in life and remind you that your existance is to kill you brother who put you through hell. You see Naruto kick his ass when you hardly hurt him, not knowing that he has Kyubi at his disposal. Your brother comes back for Naruto and cares not about you. He kicks the living shit out of you infront of your rival.

Spoiler:

You wake up and Naruto has not only been trained be a legendary sannin but is constantly getting stronger while you're on the hospital bed. Kakashi tells you to stop seeking revenge. The Sound Four comes along and beat you up and reminds you yet again how weak you are, and you can never get strong in this village and will never kill your brother. Well going through all that crap isn't much, you can only blame it on yourself for being weakminded.

Sasuke left because he wanted to get strong. He intended to leave with Orochimaru to TRAIN. He plans to WORK damnit. He knows that he needs to train harder. What makes you think that Sasuke does not understand the importance of hardwork and will power?

Originally Posted by UserName

He never thought he could own Gaara. And he never thought Gaara weak like Sasuke is.

Stopped calling me ingorant. You make yourself seem more like an idiot.

Yes, Sasuke is a weak little crybaby. That's why Naruto wants his recognization so bad. That's what he's rivalling him, always wanting to show him that he's strong.

[Lost World]

Originally Posted by UserName

He never thought he could own Gaara. And he never thought Gaara weak like Sasuke is.

Stopped calling me ingorant. You make yourself seem more like an idiot.

SHOW SOME PROOF. STOP JUST POSTING YOUR MISGUIDED OPINION!!! SHOW SOME FUCKING PROOF!

[UserName]

Originally Posted by sheen

You fucking fool.

Naruto didn't give up and Sasuke gave up in what situation? That has nothing to do with arrogance. And in any case, Naruto is much more arrogant than Sasuke is going by their actions.

You're saying how Naruto gets strong after he fears and Sasuke panics. Did he not say "If I die, it means that this is my limit."

He left the village because he was weakminded? I want to see your brother kill your whole family when you're seven. Your brother being someone that you have looked up to for your whole life. Not only did he have to kill them, he makes you watch him kill your parents over and over and again. Along comes Orochimaru comes in and slap a curse seal on you which warps you judgement. Gaara comes along and reminds you of your purpose in life and remind you that your existance is to kill you brother who put you through hell. You see Naruto kick his ass when you hardly hurt him, not knowing that he has Kyubi at his disposal. Your brother comes back for Naruto and cares not about you. He kicks the living shit out of you infront of your rival. You wake up and Naruto has not only been trained be a legendary sannin but is constantly getting stronger. Kakashi tells you to stop seeking revenge. The Sound Four comes along and beat you up and reminds you yet again how weak you are, and you can never get strong in this village and will never kill your brother. Well going through all that crap isn't much, you can only blame it on yourself for being weakminded.

Sasuke left because he wanted to get strong. He intended to leave with Orochimaru to TRAIN. He plans to WORK damnit. He knows that he needs to train harder. He is TRAINING.

If I was in Sasuke shoes well then 'good ridance to them'. Maybe a little to far, but I'll get over it. Sasuke is weak minded. He wil do anything for power, when it comes to that he is weak minded.

You act soo childish by insulting me like that.

He planned to get stronger regardless of the method wether it requires working or not. And no I will not do anything 'cheap' like the curse seal. If I wanted revenge I will work for it. But I will only work if it benifits me by getting stronger, and if he so happens to come by I will fight him. If I don't watn to be strong I'll forget about him. And i won't go out of my way to look for him.

Sasuke is weak minded and you are too if you would do the same. He's always being controlled. Right now he's nothing but a puppet, first to Itachi only, now also to Oro.

[sheen]

Originally Posted by UserName

If I was in Sasuke shoes well then 'good ridance to them'. Maybe a little to far, but I'll get over it. Sasuke is weak minded. He wil do anything for power, when it comes to that he is weak minded.

You act soo childish by insulting me like that.

He planned to get stronger regardless of the method wether it requires working or not. And no I will not do anything 'cheap' like the curse seal. If I wanted revenge I will work for it. But I will only work if it benifits me by getting stronger, and if he so happens to come by I will fight him. If I don't watn to be strong I'll forget about him. And i won't go out of my way to look for him.

Sasuke is weak minded and you are too if you would do the same. He's always being controlled. Right now he's nothing but a puppet, first to Itachi only, now also to Oro.

I'm childish?

Originally Posted by UserName

Your sarcasm sucks... and it isn't just your sarcasm...

Yeah, if you conclude that going through severe mind-fuck, as being weak, then weak he is.

Spoiler:

He is fucking working for power. He does not plan to go to Orochimaru and expect "Good Sasuke, you're here. Here's all the power you need to kill Itachi. Run along now."

Naruto had Jiraiya to train him but it's cheap for Sasuke to go to Orochimaru to train him. Why? Because Naruto is the main character, Naruto should get everything.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by nh1

Please refrain from using the s-word! You might give Hunter ideas...

lol nah, the Spoon was sealed by Dranz's code of conduct no jutsu, even if sometimes I feel that the seal is weakening


Now seriously guys, keep your cool and stop to insult each others.
And seriously use the spoiler tag, the last posts are full of it, you will get banned.

[UserName]

Originally Posted by sheen

I'm childish?



Yeah, if you conclude that going through severe mind-fuck, as being weak, then weak he is.

Spoiler:

He is fucking working for power. He does not plan to go to Orochimaru and expect "Good Sasuke, you're here. Here's all the power you need to kill Itachi. Run along now."

Naruto had Jiraiya to train him but it's cheap for Sasuke to go to Orochimaru to train him. Why? Because Naruto is the main character, Naruto should get everything.

You are childish by saying those word you said up above.

I guess it's out of the question for you to realize that some people can stand that. While there are sick people who would even like that to happen to them... not everyone will become a puppet to those who kill thier whole clan.

If he were to find a way that's 'quick power with no work' he would take it. It's cheap for him not to work competely for power.

Spoiler:

He didn't refuse the curse seal 2.

[sheen]

Originally Posted by Hunter

lol nah, the Spoon was sealed by Dranz's code of conduct no jutsu, even if sometimes I feel that the seal is weakening


Now seriously guys, keep your cool and stop to insult each others.
And seriously use the spoiler tag, the last posts are full of it, you will get banned.

Its hard to restrain from insults when 98% of the board is made up of idiots.

And seriously, a lot of aspects of Naruto and Sasuke's character are parallel and it's high time that both Naruto and Sasuke fanboys stop seeing things from only their perspective. And it should be concluded that:

1. Naruto and Sasuke are both arrogant.

Spoiler:

2. If Naruto gets trained by Jiraiya, it should be in thoery, be fair for Sasuke to get trained by Orochimaru (save for the fact that Orochimaru is evil, wants to destroy Konoha and wants Sasuke's body).
3. If it's cheap for Sasuke to make use of the Curse Seal, Naruto isn't any better off with the Kyubi.

Originally Posted by UserName

You are childish by saying those word you said up above.

I guess it's out of the question for you to realize that some people can stand that. While there are sick people who would even like that to happen to them... not everyone will become a puppet to those who kill thier whole clan.

If he were to find a way that's 'quick power with no work' he would take it. It's cheap for him not to work competely for power.

Spoiler:

He didn't refuse the curse seal 2.

You threw the first insult. And your failure to interpret the story really needs to be pointed out and emphasized on.

I'm not saying that there aren't people who can withstand it but this is a kid who is 12 and who's being mentally assaulted before he can recover from the last blow. He's been kicked down when he was 7, but before he can stand up again, someone comes along to kick him back down.

How is not working completely for power?

Spoiler:

He didn't ask for CSL2 as he didnt ask for CSL1. It was an order given to him in order for Orochimaru to TRAIN him so that he can WORK HARD to come stronger to kill Itachi.

Sasuke does realize that there is no short cut to power. He isn't taking a short cut to power.

[Dauthi]

Originally Posted by sheen

Its hard to restrain from insults when 98% of the board is made up of idiots.

And seriously, a lot of aspects of Naruto and Sasuke's character are parallel and it's high time that both Naruto and Sasuke fanboys stop seeing things from only their perspective. And it should be concluded that:

1. Naruto and Sasuke are both arrogant.

Spoiler:

2. If Naruto gets trained by Jiraiya, it should be in thoery, be fair for Sasuke to get trained by Orochimaru (save for the fact that Orochimaru is evil, wants to destroy Konoha and wants Sasuke's body).
3. If it's cheap for Sasuke to make use of the Curse Seal, Naruto isn't any better off with the Kyubi.

Curse seal seems to have repercussions however, so its not like its cheap by all means.

I agree with what youre saying, and everyone except username will agree that both Naruto and Sasuke are guilty of being arrogant, so there is little point in arguing.

He also doesnt understand that when someone can manipulate your mind they can make you do things you wouldnt normally do, and nobody can resist this.

[UserName]

I understand that sheen just called me an idiot. And I also understand that you missed that I said Naruto was arrogant, but also confident, but Sasuke is way more arrogant. And I also understand that you can resist anything if you put your mind to it. There are people who can resist pain for a certain amount of time. The world isn't made up of weak minded people as portrayed in Sasuke or as you 2.

Curse Seal is cheap because he didn't work for it. If he made it himself then no it's not cheap.