The Industry - Lifestyle and Wages

[stubby42]

Very sad to say, you couldn't ask for a worse time to break into the industry than now. You're very likely to end up as a lowly grunt (assuming you get hired in the first place) working at below minimum wages for a very long time.

Honnestly I really dont think much has changed this sort of situation has existed through out the entire media industry (in developed countries) for atleast ten years. The fact is more and more people are applying for media courses at university meaning that competition for jobs has always been very high.

From my experience, if you want to get a film and tv (regardless of wether or not its animation) you have to do an unpaid internship for several months and even then you will only get a production assistants job.

Its also becoming apparant that not only do you need a portfolio of work you also need to have gotten a sizeable audience (e.g youtube videos), people arent exactly looking at that yet but their starting to.

I dont know if anyone remembers the myspace the movie short film? the person that made it was having trouble getting jobs in hollywood, after making that and achieveing god knows how many views it landed him work.

Getting a job in film is tough and you'd better love it or it will chew you out pretty fast.

[wao]

You guys might be interested in reading what one English-speaking animator with lots of experience in the Japanese industry has to say about that recent JAniCA survey news going around...

Basically the survey was, according to her, sort of self-selecting and not that representative of animator wages.

I'm not doubting that pay is pretty crap anyway, going by the numerous other statements and advice I've read regarding getting into commercial animation in Japan.

But people still do manage to raise families, so if you work hard - and work smart - things could sort themselves out, surely. Making a genuine effort to improve your skills even when it seems like you've reached a plateau would help, for one.

[exeplez]

Wow the amount of paycheck sounds really depressing despite seeing the industry having upgrades and innovations on the animations.

Have to work really hard to come up with many sketches (which leads to longer working hours) to get the "reasonable" amount paid.

[j0x]

Originally Posted by kj1980

Not to bring back an old topic, but once again the reality of industry wages:

Labor Group: Animators in Their 20s Earn US$11,600 a Year (Updated)

hmm if they are living in a third world country like here in the Philippines, that $11600 a year is a lot, your already rich in here

so i guess the proper question is how much is the cost of living in Japan? and is $11600 dollars enough for them to at least have some savings per month in Japan?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by ckmox

so i guess the proper question is how much is the cost of living in Japan? and is $11600 dollars enough for them to at least have some savings per month in Japan?

Random internet research seems to suggest that the average salary in Japan is around $30,000, so this would be considered a very poor wage. They would make more money if they worked at a fast food restaurant (and probably have better labour conditions too).

[Reckoner]

So unless you love the job just that much, it's a pretty bad career path to take right now.

[AnimeFan188]

Anime Industry Faces Animator Shortage
Crisis that Could Damage Future Productions:

"Initial news that Attack on Titan Season 2 was going to run for 12 episodes was met with
immense backlash from fans. It was argued that a four-year gap should have yielded at
least 25 episodes, just like the anime’s first season. But there was a factor that most fans
seemed to ignore in their rage; Wit Studio is a small animation studio with a huge
workload.

Highlighting this fact was Thomas Romain, an animator who works in the anime industry.
He took to Twitter to talk about the two biggest problems the industry is facing; lack of
animators and too many projects being produced."


"Based on this information, we might see a contraction in the number of studios and
projects in the future if the industry continues to refuse to address work conditions
animators face. Animators can work between 50 to 84 hours a week and only take
home 92,500 yen ($870) to 235,000 yen ($2,189) a month, depending on experience.

Basically, they are either living below Japan’s poverty line or just above it. No wonder
the industry is facing a shortage in animators and animation schools are closing down
on a yearly basis."

See:

http://goboiano.com/anime-industry-f...e-productions/

[Marcus H.]

The last part with how to improve the lifestyle of animators is a bit of defeatist bullshit from Romain.
The main cause behind the paycheck problems in anime studios are the fact that the system really gimps out the rank-and-file in favor of production firms like Warner Bros., Sony (Aniplex), et al. There's also the strong focus on DVD sales and merchandise, which is slowly collapsing as China has proven the superior strength of streaming licenses.

Changes must be done to bring back animation studios to the piechart of earnings from anime production. Fortunately, I think some firms like Production I.G. and Kyoani have started funding anime themselves, allowing money to return to the pockets of the animation studios.

[karice67]

For anyone who wants to look at actual data to see for themselves where all the money goes, and where studios make money from, you can find the translated reports here. The most recent one available is the summary for 2016 (data up to 2015).

There's a chart on the 2nd page that shows where the money goes. Fact is that revenue to studios from overseas licenses -- including streaming -- has grown. If you believe the data, of course, given that we're in a post-truth world.

(I'm not going to comment on the details of who gets how much of the revenue and why, because it's complicated. I don't personally know anyone in the industry on the Japanese side, but I have friends who do, and they've revealed what they can in podcasts and blogs: e.g. sakugablog. If anyone's interested in learning more, I suggest asking people like them.)

Personally, the main lesson I took from what Thomas Romain and others have been saying for a while now is that the industry needs to restructure itself so that there are fewer freelancers, fewer studios, and fewer projects being taken on board. No idea how they can achieve that, though.

But for those of use who are consumers, the only thing we can actually do is support the industry as a whole. Because whether it's a toy company, a music company, or a distributor etc etc, they are the direct funders, and they will not invest unless they can be assured of a return. I don't care what you buy, or how much it's worth, but please buy something - anything - through an official/legal channel.

[Marcus H.]

I won't say the complete opposite, but allow me to remind everyone that supporting the industry as it is also poses its own problems.
For example, how will I support Crunchyroll and most legal streaming sites if they release close to zero series in Southeast Asia (i.e., Region 3)?
Honestly, best I can do is watch on Animax, and it only has Alice to Zoroku this season.

That's just bullshit. There are clear and present problems and these problems just pile up on already glaring issues that deny some people of what's considered as the only way to go legit on anime.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

I won't say the complete opposite, but allow me to remind everyone that supporting the industry as it is also poses its own problems.
For example, how will I support Crunchyroll and most legal streaming sites if they release close to zero series in Southeast Asia (i.e., Region 3)?
Honestly, best I can do is watch on Animax, and it only has Alice to Zoroku this season.

That's just bullshit. There are clear and present problems and these problems just pile up on already glaring issues that deny some people of what's considered as the only way to go legit on anime.

I'm not just referring to streaming. It took a few years before Australia had the catalogue that made me feel that paying for a streaming membership would be worth it, so I can understand if you don't feel you have a service worth paying for.

However, I have been buying manga, art books and merchandise from Japan - either directly or from physical shops in both Australia (and SEA whenever I visited) - ever since I got my first job. So I don't buy the argument that it's impossible for anyone who's able to watch anime in the first place to support the creators in some way. Even if it involves buying just one piece of merchandise a year, however small or insignificant you think that purchase might be.

[Marcus H.]

Do you think even a fraction of a single yen will go to the original creators or animators?
Because considering how the current system works, they don't get anything substantial from merchandise sales.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Do you think even a fraction of a single yen will go to the original creators or animators?
Because considering how the current system works, they don't get anything substantial from merchandise sales.

It goes into the system - that's how industries work. Content creators have to create properties will return investment not only to themselves, but also to the companies that put out the money to fund them in the first place. And if people don't support it, then the creators won't get paid to create the next project.

Sure, it could be distributed more fairly, perhaps. But studios and their staff do get money from merchandise if they own some part of the IP. It's up to the studios to build up their capacity to invest. Examples of studios who have had success at this include Production I.G. and Kyoto Animation. Ufotable and PA Works as well, I think, and I have bought products that all four of these studios have put out. I have also bought something from TROYCA.

Also, there are obviously people keeping track of who's buying and where - why else does SEA have several Kinokuniyas? And why is there now a physical animate store in Thailand? Obviously they get more if you buy direct from the Japanese stores themselves, thus cutting out the middleman. The first four studios I mentioned have online stores, so if you're so keen to support them directly, the option is there (though you'd have to bear the extra cost of paying for proxies and stuff - like it or not, someone has to bear the cost of the service the middleman provides).

But well, it's your choice. If you don't want to support the industry as a whole in any way, then I don't see why you should expect anything to improve for your own access.

[Marcus H.]

Also, there are obviously people keeping track of who's buying and where - why else does SEA have several Kinokuniyas? And why is there now a physical animate store in Thailand?

Closest thing to legit merch stores that are accessible is Fully Booked for LNs, and that's in the middle of the metropolis. There are no Kinokuniyas or Animates in the Philippines. As for figures and other merch, they usually turn to conventions for presence, but are usually hidden from plain sight unless you have their Facebook contact details. I'm speaking from experience, by the way.

But well, it's your choice. If you don't want to support the industry as a whole in any way, then I don't see why you should expect anything to improve for your own access.

The industry is flawed as of this moment. They stick to such expensive goods to survive, and it's a mistake that's slowly biting their sorry ass. As DVD/BD sales plummet, Anisong sales are also taking a hit.

Honestly, all I want is for anime to be as accessible as games on Steam. You own a permanent copy of a show you buy, licenses aren't dropped on the fly, and you can buy it from everywhere in the world. I mean, Gaben has thought of such a cunning idea, but why can't Japan devise a similar concept? They're leaving America to take most of the licenses, promote it as a "WORLDWIDE" license, then prevent most of the world from streaming it from their devices.

There's so many problems with the anime industry, both in Japan and in America, and there's no way I will support a FAULTY and UNJUST way of showing my thanks for the anime I'm watching.

[karice67]

You sound like someone who grew up in this day and age. I bet you can't even imagine the days when we had to pay $90 for 13 episodes on VHS. Or had to wait for the painstakingly slow subbed tapes to make their way out of Japan. Things changed because fans showed that they were interested enough to make it worth the investment for the industry, by putting down money no matter how flawed the system was.

But as I said, your choice.

Also:

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Closest thing to legit merch stores that are accessible is Fully Booked for LNs, and that's in the middle of the metropolis. There are no Kinokuniyas or Animates in the Philippines. As for figures and other merch, they usually turn to conventions for presence, but are usually hidden from plain sight unless you have their Facebook contact details. I'm speaking from experience, by the way.

Originally Posted by karice67

The first four studios I mentioned have online stores, so if you're so keen to support them directly, the option is there (though you'd have to bear the extra cost of paying for proxies and stuff - like it or not, someone has to bear the cost of the service the middleman provides).

I'm sure there are other studios with online stores. (Admittedly, not all of them accept foreign credit cards - and that's where my quest to get something I really want will stop.)


=====

If people are not willing to go even half that far...well, I guess I'm just not convinced such people are actually concerned about the creators getting paid. It's more about what value is in it for themselves, isn't it?

[Marcus H.]

You sound like someone who grew up in this day and age. I bet you can't even imagine the days when we had to pay $90 for 13 episodes on VHS. Or had to wait for the painstakingly slow subbed tapes to make their way out of Japan.

Anime retail was nonexistent in the Philippines in the 1990s. One gets more exposure to anime by watching local TV. Actually, I have bought some merchandise in a certain anime store (Comic Alley, which was established not so long ago), but quickly realized that almost all their merchandise sold are bootlegs. Nowadays, most legit online stores here rely on merch requests, ordering them from Japan, then asking you to pay for pretty much the entire process.

At least Gunpla here are sold on larger toy stores. I like assembling those shits despite the lack on interest in Gundam anime in general.

Things changed because fans showed that they were interested enough to make it worth the investment for the industry, by putting down money no matter how flawed the system was.

Things changed as the bigshots wanted it to be. Save for certain scandals, the average avid fan of anime doesn't really do their efforts in dictating what they want in their anime shows (i.e., going through the same movements the typical Japanese would do) and would only go with the flow.

Has there been a mass boycott that was bigger than the one caused by Ijime Connect and the Kannagi virginity scandal that caused Aniplex or Sony Entertainment to speak up? I doubt so.

[karice67]

^ People who work in companies trying to bring anime overseas say otherwise, based on their negotiations and discussions with company and studio representatives. The creators themselves say as much on twitter, and when they're brought overseas for conventions as well. If you refuse to believe the creators, well, I have nothing more to say.

[Marcus H.]

The creators are bound (by contract or cultural norms) to not badmouth editors, animation companies or production firms. That's why all you'll hear from them are positive things, unless they really their true feelings to sneak out. Remember Girlish Number? Albeit that's an exaggeration, I won't dismiss that those things don't happen.

[karice67]

I'm hearing things from people who know creators well enough that they even hear things I've been told not to share.

And everyone still says: buy something official. Anything. It doesn't matter how small it is.

So to me, "They're not making what I want available to me the way I want it" sounds like "What matters most to me is how much value I get out if this." As I pointed out above, if you really cared, you would pay extra to support the studios directly, by buying through their online stores through Japan-based proxies. The studios can then work towards paying their staff better, at the very least.

If saying that "they wouldn't get anything out of this" makes you feel better, so be it. You're the one you need to convince, not me.

=====

For everyone who actually cares about the creators:

If you can't afford it, or aren't old or financially secure enough to get a credit card, that's fine. It can probably wait until you are able to afford it.

If you do care, however, than perhaps try to buy even one official thing a year. If you really want to make sure as much of your money goes to the creators as possible, find a studio's online store and order directly from them. I'll be glad to help anyone look for proxies and make the order in Japanese, if need be.

====

edit: Oh, and for an even more direct way of supporting creators (if by creators you mean those animators who are starting at the very bottom), try the Animator Dormitory Start Up project. The most recent round of funding was a few months back, but there should be another one sometime this year.

[Dextro]

I can relate to Marcus H. especially in the streaming bit of the equation. They make it pretty damned hard to get a legit way to watch the shows. Last season I actually went and took a count: about 60% of the shows I wanted to watch were completly inaccessible for me due to region blocking. The silly thing is: if I were to jump on a plane for 2 hours I would get 100% covered. Streaming options are basically restricted to the english and french speaking parts of europe from what I can gather.

And even to cover all shows I would need to pay for 2 different streaming services (Amazon and CR).

I do not have, in any way, shape or form, the amount of disposable income that the average japanese Otaku or even the average American/British fan has. The reality of my poor corner of europe ensures that.

I do try my best to support the UK releases of shows I enjoy. It helps that plenty of UK publishers lately have been, in my eyes at least, rather interested in serving their costumers properly. Anime Ltd. and Animatsu come to mind. Their releases are expensive compared to what we had before but they're a far cry in quality from what the old publishers put out for years. (The reality of a small market means that there aren't any local publishers. This means that, come brexit, I'll be even less able to support the industry).

But this only helps with older shows. Amagami SS just came out this month for crying out loud!

I do try to import soundtracks, some games and figures but that's an expensive, slow and cumbersome process. And then publishes like Avex go and move to ban exports? How can you tell us gaijin to support the shows we like when certain publishers are actively saying that they don't want our money?

Thankfully companies like Visual Arts are actively translating and releasing their catalogues in western distribution channels. Those are hopeful signs for the future.