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Old 2024-04-25, 09:56   Link #1421
Mad Pierrot
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Join Date: Nov 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Genesis is not a good character
I think he would have been more effective if he had him connect more with Angeal and especially Sephiroth's human side to creating a major impact on the villain's characterizations in Remake and Rebirth rather than just having him as a villain for Zack just because we can't defeat Sephiroth Crisis Core. I heard the mobile game had planned to expand on Sephiroth's youth (with Yuichihiro Umehara's voice for some reason rather than Morikawa) but I don't know if Genesis was there
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Old 2024-04-25, 21:07   Link #1422
Tactics
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Genesis is not a good character
Genesis is good character if player actually willing to look to his past with Angeal that spreaded throughout NPC in Crisis Core.

Genesis is son of Banora mayor who always believed he's special because his parents spoiled him too much.
When Angeal parents chosen to carry G Project, his parents paid a hefty amount of money to Shinra so Genesis can be included so he still considered "special". Noticed that Genesis hardly use physical attack to close gap compare to Angeal and Sephiroth.

That's why when degradation hit him, he became overly dramatic.
His parents already died, no more people who usually solved his problem with money. Game speaks enough of his social skill when people noted he have no real friend other than Angeal.

His character is fully intended to be foil of Zack.

One is person who actually climb SOLDIER hierarchy, befriend many; training, realist and hard work; one is theatrical, spoiled, supported by multiple instant achievement. Both are village boys wanted to be successful. Just like how Cloud is opposite of Sephiroth despite both motivation to work in Shinra was because of "mother".

He's not the best villain for VII but to made character like him without proper understanding of Cloud vs. Sephiroth and ethical issues behind Shinra business is a big no (Lazard and Genesis are byproduct of Rufus father management style).

As time goes, I doubt people that complained about decline on story quality after X often pay attention, unlikely touched stuffs like Crystal Chronicles, Dissidia, Type-0 or SoP or maybe simply set the bar unrealistically high.

The only series SE talked about writing QC is XIII.
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Old 2024-04-25, 22:07   Link #1423
Shadow5YA
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Cloud is meant to be Zack's foil, not Sephiroth. It's literally in their name (Cloud Strife vs Zack Fair)
Cloud is no hero, experiences internal turmoil and multiple setbacks while Zack is the actual SOLDIER 1st Class, is overall positive and straightforward.

Sephiroth is theatrical and megalomanic in his own way, and he's still popular as a villain. The same cannot be said about Genesis, and making excuses about how he's intended that way or how people don't understand him doesn't make him any more likable.

Mainline Final Fantasy games have had development issues and mixed reception since 12. The international revision of 12 was well-received, but people forget that the vanilla version came out to mixed reviews.
I shouldn't even need to explain about 13's issues, or 14's launch with A Realm Reborn.

I should also remind you that the FF7 Compilation ended with Dirge of Cerberus, which was not well-received at all. The fanbase had plenty of reason to doubt whether another FF7 game would be any better when SE had nothing else to show for it at the time.
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Old 2024-04-26, 04:29   Link #1424
Tactics
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Cloud is meant to be Zack's foil, not Sephiroth. It's literally in their name (Cloud Strife vs Zack Fair)
Cloud is no hero, experiences internal turmoil and multiple setbacks while Zack is the actual SOLDIER 1st Class, is overall positive and straightforward.

Sephiroth is theatrical and megalomanic in his own way, and he's still popular as a villain. The same cannot be said about Genesis, and making excuses about how he's intended that way or how people don't understand him doesn't make him any more likable.

Mainline Final Fantasy games have had development issues and mixed reception since 12. The international revision of 12 was well-received, but people forget that the vanilla version came out to mixed reviews.
I shouldn't even need to explain about 13's issues, or 14's launch with A Realm Reborn.

I should also remind you that the FF7 Compilation ended with Dirge of Cerberus, which was not well-received at all. The fanbase had plenty of reason to doubt whether another FF7 game would be any better when SE had nothing else to show for it at the time.
Not quite true.

Zack in OG VII is just there as Cloud new persona template. He only become full-fledged character by Crisis Core.

Sephiroth is, by all intent. Both career in Shinra driven by their mother, both are stronger than regular human since birth.
However one feel superior and wanted to destroy humanity while the other feel inferior and wanted to connect with others. Zack and Genesis is also like that, both are village boys aspired to become hero but one is spoiled to the point he coped with failure and Shinra unethical method by drown himself being theatrical, while the other one insisted to believe good will prevails.

Sephiroth being megalomaniac is understandable since he's been killing people since child and he snapped because his "mother" quickly explained his abnormal strength.
Genesis is not like that. He and Angeal had normal childhood. Spoiled by his parents. Felt betrayed by Shinra that ditched him and Angeal in favor of Sephiroth and Zack that never questions them. So when it comes out hammy, its not writing flaw; completely ignores how he spent majority of game asking all SOLDIERs if their loyalty worth it when he's living proof that SOLDIERs are disposable asset, not a glorious career. Narratively, Sephiroth case of birth circumstances isn't working for Zack, Genesis case of expectation and reality is.

XII is definite proof of what I said, target audience bias to good old days.

XII International didn't change story only provide new Gambit and replace Skill Board with Zodiac Job Board.
People have mixed reaction because not only politics-driven story but also in OG they have to set AI and min-maxing from beginning; purist didn't care all the changes already approved by Sakaguchi. In Zodiac Age, they only need to choose Jobs and done, no need feel guilty to set AI commit to healing because you decide that person is White Mage unlike before.

Zodiac Age better sales is not telling OG is not well-baked, more like they comply to people that wanted easier game.
A is Knight, B is Healer, etc. Attack faster, no need to care about reposition. Majority of change just to sped up the game, so no real issues other than outside loyal fanbase comfort zone. I lived through times people bashed OG XII because its not pure turn-based and Vaan had no saying in politics, unlike Tidus that bravely kick Seymour the high priest.

To say writing of new-gen FF become bad is too much.
I've played most of them and I can say the quality is pretty consistent with actual cares to what it tried to tell. More often its the gameplay expectation that hurts; case of XII and how majority of critics toward Dirge triggered by expectation it'll be turn-based like OG VII or high profile action like Devil May Cry.

FF 'new-gen' primary issue already addressed by Toriyama, Yoshida, Tabata and Kitase in various interviews and live-letter.
Of course, more than likely, the so-called fanbase gracefully ignored it. Easier to said its bad while consuming VII and X appends.
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Old 2024-04-26, 14:56   Link #1425
Shadow5YA
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Their names haven't changed since the original. If you can't tell that Cloud Strife and Zack Fair were deliberate choices by the creators, nothing I say will convince you anyway.

Even from how little Zack was in the original, we can tell that they were written as polar opposite characters.
Cloud began as a failure and a fake, but struggles and eventually grows into a real hero.
Zack is the one with the real status, but dies in futility and failed where Cloud succeeds (against Sephiroth).

Dirge of Cerberus was not a good game even by 3rd person action game standards.
Betrayed expectations for a turn-based combat system does not account for how much more negative the reception for Dirge of Cerberus was even compared to the original Crisis Core.
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Old 2024-04-29, 08:12   Link #1426
Mad Pierrot
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Join Date: Nov 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Their names haven't changed since the original. If you can't tell that Cloud Strife and Zack Fair were deliberate choices by the creators, nothing I say will convince you anyway.

Even from how little Zack was in the original, we can tell that they were written as polar opposite characters.
Cloud began as a failure and a fake, but struggles and eventually grows into a real hero.
Zack is the one with the real status, but dies in futility and failed where Cloud succeeds (against Sephiroth).

Dirge of Cerberus was not a good game even by 3rd person action game standards.
Betrayed expectations for a turn-based combat system does not account for how much more negative the reception for Dirge of Cerberus was even compared to the original Crisis Core.
What about Vincent's characterization? Seems that while he is a loner, he also has a childish side when playing cards or the famous cellphone line from Advent Children that makes it sound like the famous meme "How is it hanging fellow kids?"
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Old 2024-06-10, 11:48   Link #1427
Mad Pierrot
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I never realized but Zack's redesign in the second half of Crisis Core, and later installments are all tributes to Angeal. He has retains the spiky hair but his forehead is clean without the bangs. Besides the Buster Sword, he wears the same Soldier first Class uniform like Angeal in contrast to Sephiroth and Genesis who chose to wear whatever they liked.
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