AnimeSuki Forums

joedirtt99 · 2004-03-05, 09:26

*Spoilers* if you havent watched up to EP 20

What i dont understand is how everyone seems to be stuck on the whole "moralality" of the brother sister relationship. While what is "actually" happend is how Kiyoko got with a "DEMON" who at the time had have his skin looking like the terminator ya thats what normal humans would consider a "healthy" relationship. I mean just weigh the differences a chance at a few birth defects from a sibling offspring or a guaranteed DEMON child which would you choose?

Wolfsbane68 · 2004-03-05, 11:01

joedirtt99, you seem to subscribe to the BBC-documentary view of morals as something to do with getting healthy offspring

As the Pakistani, Bangladeshi, and Iraqi Shi'a paternal cousin marriages show, it's not about the risk of birth defects, it's the pattern a society can get locked in. Or it could a caste system like in India, leading to stagnation and poverty for the majority of the people. So I guess it's just society overreacting to protect itself. OTOH, Novem was pretty hot even in the "terminator" mode

tsurumaru · 2004-03-05, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by joedirtt99

*Spoilers* if you havent watched up to EP 20

What i dont understand is how everyone seems to be stuck on the whole "moralality" of the brother sister relationship. While what is "actually" happend is how Kiyoko got with a "DEMON" who at the time had have his skin looking like the terminator ya thats what normal humans would consider a "healthy" relationship. I mean just weigh the differences a chance at a few birth defects from a sibling offspring or a guaranteed DEMON child which would you choose?

Just because something looks like a demon doesn't necessarily mean that it is one.....

Hmm, I'm still not convinced at all that Gilgamesh are the "true" enemy of humanity although their actions go against that of "normal" society until we can fully understand their goal we shouldn't be so hasty to cast judgement.

I'll also spoiler my thoughts about what may happen:

Spoiler:

FromageTheDog · 2004-03-09, 04:50

To paraphrase the great Mojo Jojo, episode 21 rocks so hard.

This series just keeps getting better and better. I was a little off-put by the sudden and rather out-of-character (for this series, anyway, IMHO) "earth, wind and fire" gilgamesh-lings, and the rather comical bowling alley warfare of the last episode, but this one's right back to the good stuff.

This is really one of those rare shows which takes its subject matter and the viewers seriously enough without seeming contrived or forced. I just hope they can end it well; I've seen enough anime shows that started out ferociously well, only to end on a whimper (Gasaraki), or worse yet, devolve into utter confusion (Eva) that I'm quite worried.

So anyway -- gushing aside: it seems like all the kiddies are clones of their parents, which I guess was pretty damned obvious from the last couple episodes -- except the sister, which I guess is the one natural kid. I'm glad someone (namely, Madoka) saw fit to put that old bag in her place (finally!).

The kids seemed awfully disturbed to discover they were clones... Is this really so bad? I mean, it's not like they had parents to begin with. Their reactions just seemed overly melodramatic to me... Or did they maybe learn something even worse...?

Agh! Can't wait for the next episodes!

- Fromage

Tofusensei · 2004-03-11, 20:29

Live-eviL started releasing Gilgamesh again, just so you guys know...

Sorry for the delay :/

-Tofu

durrem · 2004-03-11, 20:32

OMG, I was waiting for this! I haven't seen Gilgamesh in months! LE just finished like 12 episodes at once!! Thanks thanks!!

lynne_huang · 2004-03-12, 14:33

accidentally posted twice, don't know how to delete my posts though. pls go to the next post!

lynne_huang · 2004-03-12, 14:34

Warning: major spoilers up till ep 23 ahead and i don't know how to put the spoiler tag board so my post's in white colour. don't read it if u don't want to find out!

Quote:

Originally Posted by FromageTheDog

To paraphrase the great Mojo Jojo, episode 21 rocks so hard.

This series just keeps getting better and better. I was a little off-put by the sudden and rather out-of-character (for this series, anyway, IMHO) "earth, wind and fire" gilgamesh-lings, and the rather comical bowling alley warfare of the last episode, but this one's right back to the good stuff.

This is really one of those rare shows which takes its subject matter and the viewers seriously enough without seeming contrived or forced. I just hope they can end it well; I've seen enough anime shows that started out ferociously well, only to end on a whimper (Gasaraki), or worse yet, devolve into utter confusion (Eva) that I'm quite worried.

So anyway -- gushing aside: it seems like all the kiddies are clones of their parents, which I guess was pretty damned obvious from the last couple episodes -- except the sister, which I guess is the one natural kid. I'm glad someone (namely, Madoka) saw fit to put that old bag in her place (finally!).

The kids seemed awfully disturbed to discover they were clones... Is this really so bad? I mean, it's not like they had parents to begin with. Their reactions just seemed overly melodramatic to me... Or did they maybe learn something even worse...?

Agh! Can't wait for the next episodes!

- Fromage

here goes:

that's cuz they're weren't conceived naturally. there're fairly strong indications that their embryos were implanted in pigs (?!!) so having a PIG as a 'mother' might make one feel fairly screwed up and nauseated. i would, anyway. there comes the whole question: am i technically a pig or still homo sapiens? [there's a scene where Fuu tears up the stomach of her beloved pig stuff toy, crying repeatedly: "I'm not you, I'm not you.." that pretty much says it all, doesn't it?]

to compound things further, to lose your sense of identity and individuality by finding out you're a mere 'carbon copy'/clone of someone else is disorientating, to say the least.

warning again: major spoilers!

blattaria too, are clones, but their 'mothers' were sheep. they were cloned w technology obtained from Heaven's Gate. and they all appear to be female! i think having sheep as their 'parents' has another connotation to it, where sheep are really dumb animals and they're always guided by a shepherd? in this case, the shepherd's that Kaza-something guy.. the one who wears sunglasses 24/7. he tells them such dumb things and they actually listen to him??? too long to explain.

this gives the whole cloning issue a really revolting twist eh. 1st u've animal organs in you, and before you know it, they're your parents.

madoka's sister (i can't remember her name, im really horrible at names) doesn't exactly die? she's fusing with the gilgy embryo or something like that, so some part of her is still alive and crying out for Tatsuya. im still waiting to finish d.l ep 24 to find out what exactly happened or is going to happen.

rem that creepy girl who's w the Countess's grandfather? she has Dynamis as well? all that hair of hers covering her face ala Sadako? anyway she accidentally kills the grandfather, which sets off a chain of events. i do suspect that she MIGHT be the Countess's clone. they look too alike! the hair colour and the pale complexion..

lots more happened, too long to recap! go watch it pple! its great!!

Kakashi Sensei · 2004-03-12, 16:20

Oh muh.... now I can't wait any longer! All three are downloading, but it's gonna be another 6-12 hours.

tsurumaru · 2004-03-12, 21:47

Well that solves the Incest debate:

Spoiler:

Grifis · 2004-03-13, 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsurumaru

Well that solves the Incest debate:

Spoiler:

Grifis

FromageTheDog · 2004-03-13, 02:46

Quote:

Spoiler:

Ah -- "Uchi wa aho dakara" I didn't get that the first time around; now that you've pointed it out, it's all quite clear -- thanks!

Quote:

Spoiler:

I accept that it could be disorienting, but I guess I'm surprised that they all reacted so strongly, esp. the rather thoughtful Fujisaki. The sum total of our life experiences makes us who we are; the idea of being a clone of someone else really doesn't disturb me much at all, esp. if the template is dead.

Now a Blade Runner type implanted memories clone, where there could be some other person running around that's exactly like me -- that definitely creeps me out.

Quote:

Spoiler:

Yeah, I thought that was a fairly nice touch, though I wonder what the implications of the other kids

Spoiler:

Or maybe I'm reading into this too much...

Spoiler:

Quote:

Spoiler:

YES! The exact same thing crossed my mind, though I found it inconsistent that

Spoiler:

BTW, I've always thought the Kyoto accent rather charming, so by extension I found the girl charming; a litte sad, given that she's a blind simpleton (though Ep. 24 would seem to imply she's not quite that helpless at all).

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

- Fromage

P.S. -- spoiler tags: with square brackets -- (SPOILER)(/SPOILER)

Tofusensei · 2004-03-13, 15:50

Hi,

I just wanted to put this out in a public forum of sorts, because it is bothering me. I have heard many different rumors and accusations regarding the recent Live-eviL Gilgamesh episodes. Some people have said that L-E stopped subbing this project after episode 11 because the terminology used in the show was too "difficult" for us, and we could not continue. Then I have also used that we used the AF-F releases as a source to sub the eps we released...

I am not sure who started saying this (AF-F zealots? L-E haters?), but it's 100% false. The fact of the matter is, we stopped releasing Gilgamesh episodes after L-E tentaively shut down for a month when I left to go to Japan (I am sure that others on this forum remember this, and if you don't believe me, look at our release schedule. If you notice there is a month of time between 12/25 and 1/30 where we did not release a SINGLE episode. http://envirosphere.com/groups.php?gs=27 )

I don't believe greenkabbage, the L-E Gilgamesh translator reads animesuki forums, but as a good friend of his, I am terribly offended by these rumors. He's possibly the best translator I have ever worked with and has never had a single problem understanding any of the aforementioned "terminology" used in the show. To think that they'd say that we needed to copy AF-F scripts is preposterous. Not to mention people who say that L-E Gilgamesh translations are bad... I dare you to point out any error of any decent proportion in any of the episodes we just released. In fact, I'd like to know them myself.

He had these episodes translated ages ago. After I left for Japan the project sidelined due to the absence/disappearance of a few key members, and we just recently got it back on track.

Also, to anyone who thinks that L-E was stockpiling the episodes in order to "catch back up" or something. The real truth to all that is this... After episode 14 of Gilgamesh a new OP sequence is used. We waited for over a month for the original styler of our Gilgamesh typeset to come up with a new OP but he was unable to produce, and eventually his computer crapped out and he couldn't make anything. After this happened, we outsourced the OP sequence to friends of ours at Idealogy Fansubs to help style the new OP, and after they finished it, we were FINALLY able to encode eps 14+. I received the OP file on Tuesday. We released eps 14-24 on Thursday.

Anyway, I am sick of people who think they know everything when in fact they are totally wrong. If you are not positive about something, don't go preaching off to others with your falacies. You're just helping to give L-E and the entire fansub scene a bad name. Unless that is your intention, which just makes you a bad person.

-Tofu (L-E Gilgamesh editor, typesetter, encoder)

LinChoiSin · 2004-03-13, 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsurumaru

Well that solves the Incest debate:

Spoiler:

that's what i thought at first but we have no evidence about it, or maybe i missed something?

lynne_huang · 2004-03-14, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by LinChoiSin

that's what i thought at first but we have no evidence about it, or maybe i missed something?

yeah me too, but there really isn't any evidence at the moment to suggest that relationship. it might be just physical resemblance? cuz i do vaguely recall in ep21/22(?)

Spoiler:

i guess we'll have to wait and see how it progresses.. so far, its been such a brilliant anime and i really really don't want it to end!! =(

lynne_huang · 2004-03-14, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by FromageTheDog

Spoiler:

Or maybe I'm reading into this too much...

well, i think the 'pigs' part is supposed to provide and give a demeaning, even degrading, connotation. pigs are generally seen as stupid, lazy, slobby, dirty and fat creatures that are just bred for human consumption. and they are also, pretty low in the hierachy of the animal kingdom. (in my humble opinion anyway, though its been proven somewhere in some science journal that pigs are actually pretty smart.) so, if

Spoiler:

then again, i might be reading into this too much as well...

Quote:

Originally Posted by FromageTheDog

Spoiler:

oooh yes i was wondering about that part too! definitely something to ponder about. i only thought

Spoiler:

Quote:

Originally Posted by FromageTheDog

Spoiler:

Yeah! exactly! maybe

Spoiler:

and you know, with regards to ep 24, im really intrigued about how

Spoiler:

Anyway, thanks Fromage for bringing up all those points to think about!

- Lynne

Kakashi Sensei · 2004-03-23, 01:03

Gilgamesh has ended. Thus, a discussion thread is in order.

Ledgem · 2004-03-23, 01:08

How about... *cough* waiting for the subs? ;P You want it to be spoiled that badly?

AnimeOni · 2004-03-23, 05:18

The ending is typical for this type of anime. I didn't think it was that bad.
________
Countach

marin · 2004-03-23, 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnimeOni

The ending is typical for this type of anime. I didn't think it was that bad.

What is "this type of anime" ?

2004-03-05, 09:26	Link #81
joedirtt99 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004	Curious Spoilers if you havent watched up to EP 20 What i dont understand is how everyone seems to be stuck on the whole "moralality" of the brother sister relationship. While what is "actually" happend is how Kiyoko got with a "DEMON" who at the time had have his skin looking like the terminator ya thats what normal humans would consider a "healthy" relationship. I mean just weigh the differences a chance at a few birth defects from a sibling offspring or a guaranteed DEMON child which would you choose?

2004-03-09, 04:50	Link #84
FromageTheDog Sazabi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: California	Ep. 21 To paraphrase the great Mojo Jojo, episode 21 rocks so hard. This series just keeps getting better and better. I was a little off-put by the sudden and rather out-of-character (for this series, anyway, IMHO) "earth, wind and fire" gilgamesh-lings, and the rather comical bowling alley warfare of the last episode, but this one's right back to the good stuff. This is really one of those rare shows which takes its subject matter and the viewers seriously enough without seeming contrived or forced. I just hope they can end it well; I've seen enough anime shows that started out ferociously well, only to end on a whimper (Gasaraki), or worse yet, devolve into utter confusion (Eva) that I'm quite worried. So anyway -- gushing aside: it seems like all the kiddies are clones of their parents, which I guess was pretty damned obvious from the last couple episodes -- except the sister, which I guess is the one natural kid. I'm glad someone (namely, Madoka) saw fit to put that old bag in her place (finally!). The kids seemed awfully disturbed to discover they were clones... Is this really so bad? I mean, it's not like they had parents to begin with. Their reactions just seemed overly melodramatic to me... Or did they maybe learn something even worse...? Agh! Can't wait for the next episodes! - Fromage

2004-03-12, 14:33	Link #87
lynne_huang Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003	accidentally posted twice, don't know how to delete my posts though. pls go to the next post! Last edited by lynne_huang; 2004-03-12 at 14:41. Reason: accidentally posted reply twice

2004-03-12, 21:47	Link #90
tsurumaru I refuse to die dammit! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: UK Age: 47	Well that solves the Incest debate: Spoiler: Tatsuya is a clone of his father and Kiyoko is a clone of her mother (for some reason). Therefore even though they were born out of the same womb they are not tecnically blood related......

2004-03-23, 01:03	Link #97
Kakashi Sensei LstSrvvngSskeFnGrl Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA	Gilgamesh: Terminated Gilgamesh has ended. Thus, a discussion thread is in order. Last edited by Kakashi Sensei; 2004-03-23 at 20:25.

2004-03-05, 11:01	Link #82
Wolfsbane68 Member Join Date: Dec 2003	joedirtt99, you seem to subscribe to the BBC-documentary view of morals as something to do with getting healthy offspring As the Pakistani, Bangladeshi, and Iraqi Shi'a paternal cousin marriages show, it's not about the risk of birth defects, it's the pattern a society can get locked in. Or it could a caste system like in India, leading to stagnation and poverty for the majority of the people. So I guess it's just society overreacting to protect itself. OTOH, Novem was pretty hot even in the "terminator" mode

2004-03-11, 20:29	Link #85
Tofusensei Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tokyo, Japan	Live-eviL started releasing Gilgamesh again, just so you guys know... Sorry for the delay :/ -Tofu

2004-03-11, 20:32	Link #86
durrem [megaplay] sparkles Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Milpitas, CA, USA	OMG, I was waiting for this! I haven't seen Gilgamesh in months! LE just finished like 12 episodes at once!! Thanks thanks!!

2004-03-12, 16:20	Link #89
Kakashi Sensei LstSrvvngSskeFnGrl Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA	Oh muh.... now I can't wait any longer! All three are downloading, but it's gonna be another 6-12 hours.

2004-03-13, 15:50	Link #93
Tofusensei Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tokyo, Japan	Hi, I just wanted to put this out in a public forum of sorts, because it is bothering me. I have heard many different rumors and accusations regarding the recent Live-eviL Gilgamesh episodes. Some people have said that L-E stopped subbing this project after episode 11 because the terminology used in the show was too "difficult" for us, and we could not continue. Then I have also used that we used the AF-F releases as a source to sub the eps we released... I am not sure who started saying this (AF-F zealots? L-E haters?), but it's 100% false. The fact of the matter is, we stopped releasing Gilgamesh episodes after L-E tentaively shut down for a month when I left to go to Japan (I am sure that others on this forum remember this, and if you don't believe me, look at our release schedule. If you notice there is a month of time between 12/25 and 1/30 where we did not release a SINGLE episode. http://envirosphere.com/groups.php?gs=27 ) I don't believe greenkabbage, the L-E Gilgamesh translator reads animesuki forums, but as a good friend of his, I am terribly offended by these rumors. He's possibly the best translator I have ever worked with and has never had a single problem understanding any of the aforementioned "terminology" used in the show. To think that they'd say that we needed to copy AF-F scripts is preposterous. Not to mention people who say that L-E Gilgamesh translations are bad... I dare you to point out any error of any decent proportion in any of the episodes we just released. In fact, I'd like to know them myself. He had these episodes translated ages ago. After I left for Japan the project sidelined due to the absence/disappearance of a few key members, and we just recently got it back on track. Also, to anyone who thinks that L-E was stockpiling the episodes in order to "catch back up" or something. The real truth to all that is this... After episode 14 of Gilgamesh a new OP sequence is used. We waited for over a month for the original styler of our Gilgamesh typeset to come up with a new OP but he was unable to produce, and eventually his computer crapped out and he couldn't make anything. After this happened, we outsourced the OP sequence to friends of ours at Idealogy Fansubs to help style the new OP, and after they finished it, we were FINALLY able to encode eps 14+. I received the OP file on Tuesday. We released eps 14-24 on Thursday. Anyway, I am sick of people who think they know everything when in fact they are totally wrong. If you are not positive about something, don't go preaching off to others with your falacies. You're just helping to give L-E and the entire fansub scene a bad name. Unless that is your intention, which just makes you a bad person. -Tofu (L-E Gilgamesh editor, typesetter, encoder)

2004-03-23, 01:08	Link #98
Ledgem Love Yourself Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Northeast USA Age: 38	How about... cough waiting for the subs? ;P You want it to be spoiled that badly? __________________

2004-03-23, 05:18	Link #99
AnimeOni Raid-the-mods Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sol System	The ending is typical for this type of anime. I didn't think it was that bad. ________ Countach Last edited by AnimeOni; 2011-03-05 at 11:02.