(L) Gilgamesh Discussion

[Tofusensei]

Originally Posted by LinChoiSin

i love the final and i really love this show my only regret is that it's not longer.Is it me or the real Gilgamesh (the half -god)didn't have an important role (except for the name of the show) i'm under the impression that the connections with the legenf itself weren't that great .

Yeah, you sorta have to dig for them to find them... I wonder if the producers planned it that way or that's just how it ended up.

-Tofu

[Vidar]

Originally Posted by LinChoiSin

i love the final and i really love this show my only regret is that it's not longer.Is it me or the real Gilgamesh (the half -god)didn't have an important role (except for the name of the show) i'm under the impression that the connections with the legenf itself weren't that great .

I agree with you that the myth got kinda losely integrated into the whole plot.

But then again the main plots of both circle around the same thing. Human want to become immortal and thus leaving behind their true nature.
Then there's the cleansing flood which turns the sumerian creational myth (the world began when sky and earth seperated) upside down.
The hullupu tree of the myth (planted in uruk who symbolizes likewise wisdom and life) turns up as the heaven's gate building (does look like a tree without its top doesnt it?) and in kiyokos dream.

I guess the problem most people have (and i do aswell) is that which character actually is gilgamesh's equivalent. Is it the elder Yuuki? That Sure is probable since he's the one to seek immortality and Madoka/Enkidu seems to be friends with him (that is why he could join the scientist corps at Heaven's gate).

So what ya think?
That goes for all of you i think the depths of this grand anime deserve one more dive or another, don't you?

[LinChoiSin]

i feel like we don't have enough informations about the older Yuuki,he's supposed to be very important but we barely saw him in the anime ,to me it's almost the same thing that with the barbem character in "rahxephon".In fact we have a lot more informations on Kazatsuki(who's also an interesting character btw).

[dreamless]

well, that old man Yuuki wants eternal life... I guess that's enough to know already...

[Vidar]

Originally Posted by dreamless

well, that old man Yuuki wants eternal life... I guess that's enough to know already...

Well thats even before he met Enkidu i guess. Or is it not?
The myth says that Gilgamesh wanted to gain immortality after Enkidu died. That does not fit too properly (actually it doesn't fit at all)
Then Enkidu was made by the gods to rival Gilgamesh's superhuman powers. So where does that fit in?

O well and then what lin said is true after all: there's not too much info concerning yuuki - so why is he so not of concern? Even though he is the dramatical center of the plot since he got the drama started?

…keep on puzzling ,
- Vidar

[Prince of Chronics]

Originally Posted by dreamless

I can't understand how Kazamatsuri can stay so calm thinking he's winning all this time...

cuz he's badass... he was one of my favorite characters in this show...

to get back on topic... I really liked how this show ended... it was confusing at times with all the scientific lingo they were using... it was weird at times with the whole incest thingy... but the nice plot and characters made it an entertaining show... the Blattaria and the members of Gilgamesh were all awesome characters...

I like endings where everyone gets killed in the end... cuz it's an aberation from standard anime endings...

[Wicked Child]

Everyone seems to have the consensus that Reiko was the old man Yuuki's clone, not only in opinino but by statement in the show. However, when the boy gave ups his eyes it seemed to me that the one to benefit from it was actually Kazamatsuri. I could very well be wrong with this though so don't mind me.

When Reiko dies, doesn't Kazamatsuri say something to the effect that Gilgamesh were wrong in their thinking that the boy was the old man's clone? Or am I mistaken again?

On a different note someone had previously mentioned that the Countess represented Ishtar and I have to agree. Whenever they rehashed the epic in the show I was given the impression that her character was supposed to be like that of Ishtar. Either way I found the Countess to be nothing more than a coward in rich clothing. That and I think she used her butler for more than normal butler duties.

I too am curious to know why Terumichi's children were important then dispensible. Unless their entire role was just in helping bring about the end result of the Cleansing Flood. I don't know, I got the feeling that Terumichi had been somehow seduced by TEAR or possessed because he resembled nothing of his former self.

You people have brought up a lot of things to mull over. However I'm still upset at all the speculation. I think things that I have to think about too but in the end I want to know the real answer, not my own possible misguided belief.

Although considering that everyone who either fell in love or had sex died I think the real moral of the story is: don't have sex or fall in love or you'll die. Really I am.

[dreamless]

When Reiko dies, doesn't Kazamatsuri say something to the effect that Gilgamesh were wrong in their thinking that the boy was the old man's clone

I think it's something like Gilgamesh mistake Reiko for old man Yuuki... but still that doesn't make much sense...

[whatever123]

i very disturbing ending

anyways my interpretation of the end is that when TEAR took a look into the countess, madoka et all... hearts it realized how corrupted humanity was so it took control over madoka in order to destroy this world and recreat it thus in the end when everyone realized it was TEARs game and they were all manipulated to the point of no return they all played along till the end of the world what TEAR never had in mind was the lingering feelings left in kyoko/kyoko childs heart which caused its destruction

thus the idea of the series is humanity is very ugly but if you try to destroy it and rebuild it will only leads to more ugliness

anywas a better explanation could be made by people who read the manga so feel free to explain

also a question is the manga licensed?

[tsurumaru]

Just to clear up a couple of points:

It is explained that Reiko-chan is a clone of the old man when reference is made to the fact that only someone with extremely close DNA could have contributed their eye's.

Also as far as I understood Kazamatsuri-san said "Looks like they've mistaken him for the old man" (About Gilgamesh attacking Reiko).

It is possible that all the Gilgameshlings suddenly turned stupid and didn't realise that since there were clones of Enkidu in Tatsuya and the other clones that there could be a clone of the old man, but this seems unlikely.

I believe that because of these two contrasting statements that Reiko might actually have been the old man himself in the end, and that the old man had assumed his younger clones body (in his ongoing quest for immortality) and was just playing a game too. I mean I sat through the last few episodes thinking that something about Reiko didn't seem right at all (apart from the fact "she" was actually a guy).

Also was the old man sick enough to be having relations with his younger clone? (Perhaps I've seen too much Anime incest...... )

Here's another few questions for you, just before Kazamatsuri is shot by the countess he says "Time for us to leave" Who's he talking to and where did he think he could escape to that was free of the cleansing flood (which was fairly obvious by then).

[Vidar]

Originally Posted by Wicked Child

Although considering that everyone who either fell in love or had sex died I think the real moral of the story is: don't have sex or fall in love or you'll die. Really I am.

Though I don't like the idea... you're right to some extent. The whole story is circling around love and life. Turned down love and worthless life, that is. The only happy couple there is in the whole story is Terumichi and Azusa (Tatsuya's and Kiyoko's mother).

(Btw does anyone know the meaning of the first kanji in terumichi (teru)? I kinda have the impression that some clues to the whole thing are hidden in the naming of the characters)

- Vidar

[Bullsquat]

Oh, wow and I initially thought this series was gonna suck. I took me a while to get through the first 8 episodes but I went on just see what happens to Kiyoko because I really feel for her. I'm so glad I didn't quit on this series. I virtually saw the remaining 18 episodes in one night and I have yet to sleep! Here I am at campus half asleep and having a major case of migraine and I still can't get this show out of my head. Prolly not for a while either.

People may complain about the animation. I didn't like it at first. But I grew to like it and it does get better as the show progresses. Also I think Kiyoko is a drawn beautifully. She was meant to be pretty and you can really see the difference between her and other female characters. Most shows have the characters looking like each other that you can't really tell.

One thing I'm still wondering about and I'm not sure if its been answered already coz at this moment, I can't really process everything written on this thread into my head. Who is Kiyoko really in love with? I really much rather if it was Novem. I know his little brother loves her in the taboo sort of way and I really want to believe that Kiyoko only loves him as a brother. I mean anything more would be wrong for two reasons. First, obviously its her brother. Second, he's also a clone of her father which means its also like falling in love with her father.

Can't think of anything else right now. Well, can't think much clearly either. Only thing in my head is Kiyoko. I got a quiz tomorrow too.

Anyway, one of the best shows I ever seen.

[LinChoiSin]

Originally Posted by Bullsquat

One thing I'm still wondering about and I'm not sure if its been answered already coz at this moment, I can't really process everything written on this thread into my head. Who is Kiyoko really in love with? I really much rather if it was Novem. I know his little brother loves her in the taboo sort of way and I really want to believe that Kiyoko only loves him as a brother. I mean anything more would be wrong for two reasons. First, obviously its her brother. Second, he's also a clone of her father which means its also like falling in love with her father.

it may not be clear but it seems to me that Kiyoko loves her brother in a different way than just as a brother though it's very difficult to confirm this impression because there were also hints implying that she loved him as a brother .I don't think that "right" , "wrong" or "taboo" can be applied in this show!

[Grifis]

Originally Posted by Bullsquat

Also I think Kiyoko is a drawn beautifully. She was meant to be pretty and you can really see the difference between her and other female characters. Most shows have the characters looking like each other that you can't really tell.

One thing I'm still wondering about and I'm not sure if its been answered already coz at this moment, I can't really process everything written on this thread into my head. Who is Kiyoko really in love with? I really much rather if it was Novem. I know his little brother loves her in the taboo sort of way and I really want to believe that Kiyoko only loves him as a brother. I mean anything more would be wrong for two reasons. First, obviously its her brother. Second, he's also a clone of her father which means its also like falling in love with her father.

Can't think of anything else right now. Well, can't think much clearly either. Only thing in my head is Kiyoko. I got a quiz tomorrow too.

Anyway, one of the best shows I ever seen.

I think Kiyoko is a very likable character. In fact she's my favorite character. The way I see it, Kiyoko loves her brother dearly but only sees him as her beloved little brother (whereas she loves Novem as a man). Her brother, on the other hand, loves her like the way their dad loved their mom (because Tatsuya was a clone of their father and took on the same attraction/emotion.)

Grifis

[dreamless]

Kiyoko loves both her brother and Novem.

Here's another few questions for you, just before Kazamatsuri is shot by the countess he says "Time for us to leave" Who's he talking to and where did he think he could escape to that was free of the cleansing flood

He's just talking to himself, obviously he thought he had won the war and saved humanity as he had captured TEAR. I guess with TEAR being captured there's a way to stop Cleansing Flood... Well we could never know now that he's shot

[Vidar]

Does anyone know the recurrant music themes?
Right now im trying hard to figure them out since i think that the element of sound is a central thing in Gilgamesh (the tuning fork is a symbol for that).

- Greetz, Vidar

[Vidar]

What's up you people. Did this thread loosen??
…
anyway,
in case any future generation will dig this out (and to answer my own question )
i'm proud to announce i've found out about the moving piano theme which is played throughout Gilgamesh a lot. It's the marvellous 5th(and last) piano concerto of Ludwig van Beethoven, 2nd movement adagio un pocco mosso.
Thanks to myself,
Good night.

[lynne_huang]

Originally Posted by Vidar

Does anyone know the recurrant music themes?
Right now im trying hard to figure them out since i think that the element of sound is a central thing in Gilgamesh (the tuning fork is a symbol for that).

- Greetz, Vidar

Well the tuning fork used in the show was pitched at 440Hz - 'A'. (There're other kinds of tuning forks pitched at other frequencies, but this is the most common one.)

The tune that Kiyoko and Novem hummed (can't remember which episode it was, the part where the water was dripping from the faucet.. the one where she rescued Novem):it oughta be 'E A1 B1 G1 D E' though i think im missing one note, i can't really remember. the number '1' denotes that those pitches are above E.

I don't know if this makes a difference, but those pitches make up a pentatonic scale starting on G <G A B D E>. Although I see it more as a slightly undefined E minor triad. Pentatonic scales are commonly thought as... you know .. 'oriental'... 'exotic' etc etc. From a music student's point of view anyway. From my very scanty knowledge of Jap traditional music, pentatonic scales are used predominantly in their music.

This is a wild guess, but maybe the producers used the pentatonic-scale theme to contrast it against the Beethoven concerto, to show another level of conflict. Gilgamesh vs Novem and co (clones vs clones). Countess against TEAR (essentially fighting herself). European (generally anyway) music vs Jap traditional music.

I think i'm getting too carried away.

Anyway, the 'theme' song they use (as mentioned above) is Beethoven's Piano Concerto #5 in E-flat major, also commonly known as the 'Emperor' Concerto. (Gilgamesh - half god/king/emperor?) Anyway what's weird is they used the 2nd movement, not at all heroic and majestic like the 1st or the 3rd. This is why I hesitate to bring up the 'Emperor' connection as I feel that if the producers truly wanted to bring that out, they'd use the 1st/3rd, and not the slow 2nd mvt.

Did anyone note how smooth the transition of the music was at the end of ep26? From the scene of the destruction of the world to Tatsuya's last moments of consciousness? it flowed from the B major Beethoven movement to a Johann-Straussian-like waltz in G major, via the use of a common/pivot note: B. (B is an important and fundamental note in both keys.)

Okay I hope at least someone understands what I just posted.

[NoSanninWa]

Maybe they used the least majestic of the movements of the Emperor's Concerto specifically to point out that this Gilgamesh was a failed emperor. Or perhaps an emperor in hiding? Or maybe because he was actually a pawn of Tear, not an emperor in control of destiny.

[Za Paper]

The Merry Widow waltz was used effectively whenever the Countess appeared.