AnimeSuki Forums

hamstar · 2011-10-13, 01:03

in real life I would have enough evidence to call tobi a big fat liar but in the manga world it's so much harder to do the same. For all I know tobi could of used split-your-soul-no-jutsu and is telling the truth.

Alchemist007 · 2011-10-13, 01:12

So now everyone thinks he's Voldemort eh?

neshru · 2011-10-13, 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackage

Can any of you honestly say you didn't see this coming?

Really, who didn't see this coming?
If anything, the timing is what's surprising. It's kind of sudden and random.

Haak · 2011-10-13, 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackage

Can any of you honestly say you didn't see this coming?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haak

Well shit. Didn't see that coming.

I already did.

Kallen4life · 2011-10-13, 03:42

seeing it coming doesn't really help - still no definite clue who is behind Tobi's mask

Z2Dragon · 2011-10-13, 04:10

I'll give you guys a break from your theories. Give me a sec to include some visuals

Kallen4life · 2011-10-13, 04:18

Quote:

The man behind the mask is Aizen

quoted for truth

Kyoka Suigetsu no jutsu

he left a bunshin in SS's prison and went to take over Naruto

Z2Dragon · 2011-10-13, 04:44

Tobi (The masked mastermind) is non other than Uchiha Shisui.

Here's the proof:

1. You need the body and soul of the dead in order to resurrect them. Jiraya couldn't be resurrected because his body was far underneath the ocean. Tobi being surprised by Madara's resurrection is also a big tell that it's not him. Notice Kabuto say "Don't worry, I won't tell anyone about this".

[cut]

2. Madara was such an evil mastermind that before his death he knew he needed to find a disciple to bring him back. In order to complete his plans he needed a genius... and for his era/generation that consisted of only Itachi and Shisui.

3. "Shisui's eyes create the most powerful genjutsu, able to control an individual without them even noticing"

[cut]

4. Shisui's body was never found which is why he couldn't be resurrected.

[cut]

5. Before he supposedly died he gave his left eye to Itachi. Tobi and Shisui also have the same hair (short and spiky)

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...ara_Uchiha.PNG

6. "All you have to do is take control of me and force me to make the seals of the dog, horse, and tiger to end it." "With your sharingan for example"

[cut]

Here's the theory:

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Shisui_Uchiha

Madara was such a genius that he manipulated a member of the Uchiha clan in order to carry out his plans. He knew he wouldn't survive which is why he needed to be resurrected in the future and needed the Sharingan and Rinnegan to do that. He found a genius kid in Shisui which immediately became his disciple.

Itachi suspiciously realizing this becomes Shisui's best friend in order to monitor (and eventually stop) him. It's like they're playing a very complicated game of chess (sort of like Death Note) where they need to stay one step ahead of the other person. Itachi goes as far as planning for his own death in order to stop Madara and Shisui.

Shisui (like Madara) planned for his death as well, which is why he started controlling Sasuke at a young age in order to carry out his plans.

"Shisui was noted to be one of the most talented members of the Uchiha clan."

"About six months after joining the ANBU, Itachi began to act oddly, and Shisui was instructed by the Konoha Military Police Force to keep tabs on him. Soon afterwards Shisui was found drowned in the Naka River with a suicide note stating that he was tired of carrying out the clan's duties. The police suspected that Itachi had murdered him and used his Sharingan to fake the suicide note"

"Shisui's corpse has apparently disappeared, as Kabuto Yakushi cannot locate it."

"With this in mind, he entrusted his left eye to Itachi and told him to protect the village."

"He had earned the nickname of "Shisui of the Body Flicker", possibly implying that he had great mastery of the Body Flicker Technique. He was hailed as one of the most powerful genjutsu users of the Uchiha clan."

Kallen4life · 2011-10-13, 04:57

uuuuh .. ok

HasuMasu · 2011-10-13, 05:31

You don't need the body for Edo Tensei.

ronin myael · 2011-10-13, 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter

Now this chapter confirmed that Madara died but it also confirmed he lived long after his fight against Hashirama (and yet he's looking young with his old armor which could simply be artistic license though) because he knew Nagato and expected to be resurrected thanks to his ability which mean he was the one who put things in motion.

Since Tobi said after Nagato's death that he initially intended Nagato to use this ability for himself, it can only mean that Tobi is somehow Madara (custom built Zetsu clone, split body/soul, imprinted personality, some Sharingan Vodou shit, etc.) or that Tobi was his henchman/accomplice (Izuna is a possibility then or Obito for the fans of the theory even if chronologically it doesn't make sense).

my thoughts exactly. only if tobi is indeed izuna, he had to be incredibly loyal to madara to sacrifice his own life to revive madara. rinne-tensei kills its wielder. that was supposed to be nagato's role. he was the sacrifice. if it's izuna then he must really love his brother or he must be incredibly stupid.

if it's shisui then he must be a real madara fanboy. but why would he pretend to be madara? he could have taken on a different name and hid his face behind a mask. he still could have led the akatsuki even if he wasn't madara. only kisame, nagato, konan and itachi seemed to have known about tobi's identity. and orochimaru maybe. the others thought he was just some silly akatsuki wannabe.

besides, i get the feeling that madara is working alone on this one. itachi mentioned to naruto about madara not relying on anyone, thinking he can do it all by himself and he didn't want naruto to end up like him. madara must have a reason to rely on tobi and the reason could be no other than the fact that tobi is him or a clone.

obito is too young to be tobi at the time of the konoha destruction 14 years ago. it just doesn't fit. if he turns out to be tobi then it would feel like an asspull to me.

as for the young-looking madara, well he could have used hashirama's DNA as an anti-aging supplement. hashirama's ability can produce trees right? so basically, it can give life. who knows what else they could do with it besides making a load of zetsus?

AuroraFlash · 2011-10-13, 07:36

I knew it was not Madara. All the hints made it impossible for Tobi to be Madara. "There is no true immortality in this world" is what Kisame said. "You go by Madara these days" said Kabuto and he said "I won't tell" because he had already summoned the real Madara. It's sad but I guess it really is Obito... Tobi... Uub and Buu... defeating yourself shit and so on...

I am starting to believe Naruto is nothing but a Shan Zhai story...

To make it clear. I don't want that Tobi-Madara to be Obito. I don't want him to be some weird split off Madara bubblegum made whatsoever either. Now I don't know what I want him to be anymore. It's disgusting. I don't want him to ever take his mask off... like Kakashi.

At least I got iOS 5... ;P

Gilgamesh00 · 2011-10-13, 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuroraFlash

I knew it was not Madara. All the hints made it impossible for Tobi to be Madara. "There is no true immortality in this world" is what Kisame said. "You go by Madara these days" said Kabuto and he said "I won't tell" because he had already summoned the real Madara. It's sad but I guess it really is Obito... Tobi... Uub and Buu... defeating yourself shit and so on...

I am starting to believe Naruto is nothing but a Shan Zhai story...

To make it clear. I don't want that Tobi-Madara to be Obito. I don't want him to be some weird split off Madara bubblegum made whatsoever either. Now I don't know what I want him to be anymore. It's disgusting. I don't want him to ever take his mask off... like Kakashi.

At least I got iOS 5... ;P

NOPE, Tobi still Madara Tobi said he planned to use Nagato to resurrect him wich means Tobi/Madara was dead all along, in this chapter Madara thought Nagato ressurrected him, Kabuto and naruto just messed up Madara plan, now Madara plans to ressurrect himself.

Xagzan · 2011-10-13, 09:23

Man, I'm just a little put out that a reveal I would've otherwise found cool had to be tempered by the sheer obnoxiousness with which Kishimoto keeps writing Naruto. Arriving on that every battlefield and immediately turning the tide of each one? Ugh.

That double page montage exemplified it perfectly; if you look in the panel with Sakura you'll see she's just frickin pointing at a Zetsu that's charging right at her. PUNCH the damn thing, girl, don't wait for Naruto to do it! Why is it only Naruto can defeat anybody these days?

naruske · 2011-10-13, 09:29

Obito died without his left eye and right side of his face crushed. wouldn't he come back to life like that?

Shiryuu · 2011-10-13, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronin myael

my thoughts exactly. only if tobi is indeed izuna, he had to be incredibly loyal to madara to sacrifice his own life to revive madara. rinne-tensei kills its wielder. that was supposed to be nagato's role. he was the sacrifice. if it's izuna then he must really love his brother or he must be incredibly stupid.

No it doesn't. When Nagato did it, he was already spent and revived thousands of people. He simply died of exhaustion.

Shining Celebi · 2011-10-13, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z2Dragon

Tobi (The masked mastermind) is non other than Uchiha Shisui.

Here's the proof:

Because the evil mastermind behind Akatsuki would willingly give his eyes - perhaps the most powerful Mangekyou Sharingan in existence - to Danzou and Itachi.

Because Itachi - who helped kill Shisui and destroy his corpse - would tell Naruto that evil mastermind Shisui shared the same ideals as Naruto.

Not to mention that Shisui would have been a little kid, like Itachi, at the time of the kyuubi attack.

And you'd think everyone would notice he was missing an arm after Minato got him with Rasengan.

Interestingly, though, it was short-haired Tobi that showed up during the kyuubi attack, but it was long-haired Tobi/Madara during the Uchiha massacre (though IIRC he was still wearing a mask.)

yakumo-chan · 2011-10-13, 10:47

One thing for sure,,,

Madara was still Alive when Nagato was still a baby or a child

ronin myael · 2011-10-13, 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiryuu

No it doesn't. When Nagato did it, he was already spent and revived thousands of people. He simply died of exhaustion.

thousands of people? i thought he only revived several, i doubt they reached the hundred mark. maybe not but we still don't know for sure what the consequences would be for the wielder. besides, if nagato possessed the ability to revive the dead without consequences then why didn't he try to revive yahiko? there must be a serious consequence for such a powerful technique, otherwise he would have done it casually and easily. when nagato decided to revive kakashi and the others he knew he would be exerting too much effort, so much so that tobi even called it a waste of power. nagato was being reserved to revive madara, that's what i think. that was his ultimate purpose.

and there's still a problem with izuna being tobi. how in the world did he remain alive and have the body of a young man when chronologically he would be an old man now? as i recall, izuna is about the same age as tobirama. the third hokage, sarutobi, was an old man when he died, he was just a kid when tobirama became hokage. if tobirama had been alive now, he would be an old man. so how is izuna able to maintain his youth? another clone? anti-aging supplements harvested from hashirama's DNA? if that is so then why didn't madara himself try to do it instead of letting himself die and relying on his brother to revive him? it doesn't make sense to me.

Hunter · 2011-10-13, 10:59

One thing to take into account as well is the fact that Kisame recognized Tobi (long hair) as Madara the first time they met and recognized him again when short-haired Tobi showed him his face years later.

2011-10-13, 01:03	Link #121
hamstar just passing by Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Exia	in real life I would have enough evidence to call tobi a big fat liar but in the manga world it's so much harder to do the same. For all I know tobi could of used split-your-soul-no-jutsu and is telling the truth. __________________

2011-10-13, 01:12	Link #122
Alchemist007 Senior Member Author Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: USA	So now everyone thinks he's Voldemort eh? __________________ Fanfics Art MyAnimeList

2011-10-13, 03:42	Link #125
Kallen4life Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	seeing it coming doesn't really help - still no definite clue who is behind Tobi's mask __________________ When we hunt, we kill No one is safe Nothing is sacred We are Blackwatch We are the last line of defense We will burn our own to hold the red line, it is the last line to ever hold

2011-10-13, 04:10	Link #126
Z2Dragon Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2011	I'll give you guys a break from your theories. Give me a sec to include some visuals Last edited by Z2Dragon; 2011-10-13 at 05:21.

2011-10-13, 04:44	Link #128
Z2Dragon Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2011	Tobi (The masked mastermind) is non other than Uchiha Shisui. Here's the proof: 1. You need the body and soul of the dead in order to resurrect them. Jiraya couldn't be resurrected because his body was far underneath the ocean. Tobi being surprised by Madara's resurrection is also a big tell that it's not him. Notice Kabuto say "Don't worry, I won't tell anyone about this". [cut] 2. Madara was such an evil mastermind that before his death he knew he needed to find a disciple to bring him back. In order to complete his plans he needed a genius... and for his era/generation that consisted of only Itachi and Shisui. 3. "Shisui's eyes create the most powerful genjutsu, able to control an individual without them even noticing" [cut] 4. Shisui's body was never found which is why he couldn't be resurrected. [cut] 5. Before he supposedly died he gave his left eye to Itachi. Tobi and Shisui also have the same hair (short and spiky) http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...ara_Uchiha.PNG 6. "All you have to do is take control of me and force me to make the seals of the dog, horse, and tiger to end it." "With your sharingan for example" [cut] Here's the theory: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Shisui_Uchiha Madara was such a genius that he manipulated a member of the Uchiha clan in order to carry out his plans. He knew he wouldn't survive which is why he needed to be resurrected in the future and needed the Sharingan and Rinnegan to do that. He found a genius kid in Shisui which immediately became his disciple. Itachi suspiciously realizing this becomes Shisui's best friend in order to monitor (and eventually stop) him. It's like they're playing a very complicated game of chess (sort of like Death Note) where they need to stay one step ahead of the other person. Itachi goes as far as planning for his own death in order to stop Madara and Shisui. Shisui (like Madara) planned for his death as well, which is why he started controlling Sasuke at a young age in order to carry out his plans. "Shisui was noted to be one of the most talented members of the Uchiha clan." "About six months after joining the ANBU, Itachi began to act oddly, and Shisui was instructed by the Konoha Military Police Force to keep tabs on him. Soon afterwards Shisui was found drowned in the Naka River with a suicide note stating that he was tired of carrying out the clan's duties. The police suspected that Itachi had murdered him and used his Sharingan to fake the suicide note" "Shisui's corpse has apparently disappeared, as Kabuto Yakushi cannot locate it." "With this in mind, he entrusted his left eye to Itachi and told him to protect the village." "He had earned the nickname of "Shisui of the Body Flicker", possibly implying that he had great mastery of the Body Flicker Technique. He was hailed as one of the most powerful genjutsu users of the Uchiha clan." Last edited by james0246; 2011-10-13 at 07:43. Reason: please do not post links to licensed materials...

2011-10-13, 04:57	Link #129
Kallen4life Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	uuuuh .. ok __________________ When we hunt, we kill No one is safe Nothing is sacred We are Blackwatch We are the last line of defense We will burn our own to hold the red line, it is the last line to ever hold

2011-10-13, 05:31	Link #130
HasuMasu Senior Member Artist Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: The Middle Way	You don't need the body for Edo Tensei. __________________

2011-10-13, 07:36	Link #132
AuroraFlash good-natured spirit Graphic Designer Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Dancing with the devil	I knew it was not Madara. All the hints made it impossible for Tobi to be Madara. "There is no true immortality in this world" is what Kisame said. "You go by Madara these days" said Kabuto and he said "I won't tell" because he had already summoned the real Madara. It's sad but I guess it really is Obito... Tobi... Uub and Buu... defeating yourself shit and so on... I am starting to believe Naruto is nothing but a Shan Zhai story... To make it clear. I don't want that Tobi-Madara to be Obito. I don't want him to be some weird split off Madara bubblegum made whatsoever either. Now I don't know what I want him to be anymore. It's disgusting. I don't want him to ever take his mask off... like Kakashi. At least I got iOS 5... ;P __________________

2011-10-13, 09:23	Link #134
Xagzan Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009	Man, I'm just a little put out that a reveal I would've otherwise found cool had to be tempered by the sheer obnoxiousness with which Kishimoto keeps writing Naruto. Arriving on that every battlefield and immediately turning the tide of each one? Ugh. That double page montage exemplified it perfectly; if you look in the panel with Sakura you'll see she's just frickin pointing at a Zetsu that's charging right at her. PUNCH the damn thing, girl, don't wait for Naruto to do it! Why is it only Naruto can defeat anybody these days?

2011-10-13, 09:29	Link #135
naruske Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008	Obito died without his left eye and right side of his face crushed. wouldn't he come back to life like that?

2011-10-13, 10:47	Link #138
yakumo-chan Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Behind You! Age: 33	One thing for sure,,, Madara was still Alive when Nagato was still a baby or a child __________________

2011-10-13, 10:59	Link #140
Hunter Bubbly and super fun Join Date: May 2003 Location: Doesn't look like Kansas	One thing to take into account as well is the fact that Kisame recognized Tobi (long hair) as Madara the first time they met and recognized him again when short-haired Tobi showed him his face years later.