Code Geass R2 - Episode 13 Discussion / Poll

[Sephi]

Same for me, i thought he was tricking Lelouch. And would try to kill him after he turned off the machine.

And Lelouch ratings of his subordinates.

Spoiler:

Didn't though Kallen intelligence and charisma was rated this low. And somewhat thought Diethard would been rated higher than a total of 180. Shinichiro score was somehow expected

Wonder what Rolo stats would be

[mechalord]

The events with Orange were telegraphed a long time ago. Ever since we found out Jeremiah served under Marianne, that was the big give away. He has always felt some sort of guilt for failing Marianne. Cornelia is bound to ally herself with Lelouch for almost the same reasons.

[Anh_Minh]

He apparently doesn't feel any guilt for failing Clovis, though...

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

He apparently doesn't feel any guilt for failing Clovis, though...

His loyalty was to Marianne, apparently, and by extension, her children.

[Anh_Minh]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm just amused by his first reaction to Clovis' death (and his attack on the convoy that transported General Fatso) when compared to his attitude now. With, you know, the guy who actually confessed to killing Clovis.

[mechalord]

the intelligence rating probably rates their knowledge of politics, technology, and military strategy. Kallen is definitely book smart and a capable student but not in anything that would be valuable to running a war.

In the whole movement she isn't involved in any of the political, strategic, or technological discussions. She's the ace pilot and doesn't get involved with policy.

Ougi is a former high school teacher, a college graduate. He ran the movement before Zero.
Laksharta is an engineering prodigy.
Kaguya is a little girl born into politics and raised to play a role in running japan.
Todou is a middle aged legendary general with knowledge of many things.


Kallen, as of now, isn't one of the "professional" advisors.

[mechalord]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

He apparently doesn't feel any guilt for failing Clovis, though...

Clovis was a pompous ass who got what he deserved after basically ordering genocide.

Marianne was a war hero, good looking, charismatic, revered, and probably a super nice lady everyone fell in love with.

Jeremiah has had a long time to think things through. His body has been mangled and experimented with. Maybe he thought about his days as a purist and as an angry noble. . . "Was it worth it?"

Maybe he remembers when he was an idealistic young soldier tasked with protecting the queen. Then he hears the name Lelouch and wonders why the emperor and VV would want to screw with him. Then he decides to play along and see if that Lelouch is the same Lelouch he remembers.

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by mechalord

Clovis was a pompous ass who got what he deserved after basically ordering genocide.

Marianne was a war hero, good looking, charismatic, revered, and probably a super nice lady everyone fell in love with.

Jeremiah has had a long time to think things through. His body has been mangled and experimented with. Maybe he thought about his days as a purist and as an angry noble. . . "Was it worth it?"

Maybe he remembers when he was an idealistic young soldier tasked with protecting the queen. Then he hears the name Lelouch and wonders why the emperor and VV would want to screw with him. Then he decides to play along and see if that Lelouch is the same Lelouch he remembers.

Koshimizu confirmed that he was a noob soldier during the Marianne Incident. Given that it's him, I think we can safely assume that Lulu has a new, firm ally.

[Grandmaster Moron]

Maybe it's just me or is there a new knightmare in the intro. Right after Shinkiro and Shen Hu. It looks like a bit Tristan but the face is a bit different and it has the black knight's aerial system.

If this has been mentioned before I apologize, but it's kinda hard to look for it in the last 51 pages

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by grss1982

BTW...

Spoiler:

http://i26.tinypic.com/mr74hg.jpg

Is that a mobile armor? Wait a minute I though this was Code Geass NOT GUNDAM!!!

Spoiler:

It is likely another Knight Giga Fortress, like the Siegfried. It may even be an upgraded Siegfried. Remember, the Siegfried looked nothing like an actual Knightmare Frame when it was launched against the Gawain.

Originally Posted by Grandmaster Moron

Maybe it's just me or is there a new knightmare in the intro. Right after Shinkiro and Shen Hu. It looks like a bit Tristan but the face is a bit different and it has the black knight's aerial system.

If this has been mentioned before I apologize, but it's kinda hard to look for it in the last 51 pages

I'm thinking that may be a Knightmare Frame that Jeremiah gets, if he's unable to keep the Siegfried, which is definitely implied in the next episode.

[Ruvixur]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Spoiler:

It is likely another Knight Giga Fortress, like the Siegfried. It may even be an upgraded Siegfried. Remember, the Siegfried looked nothing like an actual Knightmare Frame when it was launched against the Gawain.

I'm thinking that may be a Knightmare Frame that Jeremiah gets, if he's unable to keep the Siegfried, which is definitely implied in the next episode.

Doesn't it looks like Tristan + Lancelot? I doubt Lelouch will be able to get this knightmare without pilot.

[Darksage12]

Spoiler for Whose hand is that?:

Just wondering.

Spoiler for Shirley:

Killing off Shirley fits with the series really, I wonder why we didn't see it coming.
There was no future for her anyway with the black knights; she can't pilot a knightmare frame, she isn't useful for intelligence services. The only thing she could have been was his personal bodyguard (but she can't stand killing, so scrap that one) or his concubine. Loads of people wanted that to happen, but since CGR2 is not really a romance, that wasn't going to happen either.
Besides, Lelouch needed this emotional "push" in order to become even more wicked than he already was. In order to keep him focused on taking over the world.

Also, she might be still alive, although she is no longer in the OP. But Nina isn't either.

Spoiler for Mao vs Jeremiah:

I know people hated Mao, but it makes me wonder why Lelouch didn't convince him of becoming a member of the Black Knights. Jeremiah was easily convinced. Lelouch could just have worked it out between Mao and CC and he would have joined his side. A ESPer can be useful.

[yezhanquan]

Jeremiah saw in Lulu shades of Marianne, who's the one he really, REALLY respected.

As for Shirley, she'll get buried. The official site greyed out her pic and stamped "Dead" over it.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Darksage12

[SPOILER="Shirley"]
Killing off Shirley fits with the series really, I wonder why we didn't see it coming.
There was no future for her anyway with the black knights; she can't pilot a knightmare frame, she isn't useful for intelligence services. The only thing she could have been was his personal bodyguard (but she can't stand killing, so scrap that one) or his concubine. Loads of people wanted that to happen, but since CGR2 is not really a romance, that wasn't going to happen either.
Besides, Lelouch needed this emotional "push" in order to become even more wicked than he already was. In order to keep him focused on taking over the world.

So that means we gotta eliminate each chara that is not involved directly with the Black Knights? Doesn't make sense.
The second reason is valid though, the emotional push was required at this point of the series.

Re-watching the epi, i think that Rolo really did it. He is already on hit and run mode when Shirley mentions that she wants to help Lulu and likes him and doesn't want him to be alone blah blah and when Nunally is mentioned he automatically geass her. I mean why else he would geass her if it wasn't for her assasination? Doesn't make sense to me if it was someone else.
Rolo really can't control his temper when it comes to his nii-sama. :/

[mechalord]

this is science fiction/fantasy

there is a still a chance Shirley can come back as a geass necro-cyborg. Jeremiah has been saved from death by some weird geass cult. VV and CC can take bullets and knives to their heads. It's not like the writers can't write anyone back in, you know.

Anyone remember how Shirley said she would fall in love with Lelouch no matter how many times she was reborn? I don't know, this could foretell something or not. Who knows?

A reborn Shirley? How? Lelouch knocks up Kallen and CC guides her soul into the embryo? She can love Lelouch in a different way? Comes back as a zombie? Gets reanimated? Gets reanimated in a form of a geass enabling little girl?

Remember, Anya could be a reanimated Marianne. Maybe Shirley will meet a similar fate and need a family? She would be loved by Lelouch as her father? So many ways they can work her back in if they feel like it.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by mechalord

this is science fiction/fantasy

there is a still a chance Shirley can come back as a geass necro-cyborg. Jeremiah has been saved from death by some weird geass cult. VV and CC can take bullets and knives to their heads. It's not like the writers can't write anyone back in, you know.

Anyone remember how Shirley said she would fall in love with Lelouch no matter how many times she was reborn? I don't know, this could foretell something or not. Who knows?

A reborn Shirley? How? Lelouch knocks up Kallen and CC guides her soul into the embryo? She can love Lelouch in a different way? Comes back as a zombie? Gets reanimated? Gets reanimated in a form of a geass enabling little girl?

Remember, Anya could be a reanimated Marianne. Maybe Shirley will meet a similar fate and need a family? She would be loved by Lelouch as her father? So many ways they can work her back in if they feel like it.

As much as i would love for Shirley to come back {or better if she wouldn't die at all} i think it's unlikely to happen. Jeremiah had abilities that they could be really useful, Shirley is just an ordinary girl i don't think the cult would be bothered to do something about it.

But i gotta agree that if they feel like it, they might work it somehow.

[Captain Zechs]

On the Mao thing...

-He was crazy, so I doubt it would have worked out that well.
-They would have written themselves in the corner, it would have given wayyy to much power to Lelouch.

[mechalord]

Originally Posted by skyless

So that means we gotta eliminate each chara that is not involved directly with the Black Knights? Doesn't make sense.
The second reason is valid though, the emotional push was required at this point of the series.

Re-watching the epi, i think that Rolo really did it. He is already on hit and run mode when Shirley mentions that she wants to help Lulu and likes him and doesn't want him to be alone blah blah and when Nunally is mentioned he automatically geass her. I mean why else he would geass her if it wasn't for her assasination? Doesn't make sense to me if it was someone else.
Rolo really can't control his temper when it comes to his nii-sama. :/

Watch it again. He has a surprised look on his face like he noticed something.

There is no reason to attack her over Nunnally. It's not like she can realistically make a difference in getting her back? Why kill her? Like Shirley is powerful enough to save her by herself. Why not go after Laksharta and pick off the OotBK so he doesn't get Nunnally back? Why not kill the trained Ninja girl, Sayoko? Everyone is working to get Nunnally back. Lelouch talks about Nunnally in front of him, I think. It's not a big secret he wants to get her back.

My guess is that someone snuck up on them and he noticed their presence just as they launched an attack. In the melee, Shirley could have gotten shanked or took a bullet.

Poor Rollo. Everyone always thinks the worse and no one gives him the benefit of the doubt. The guy is a branded traitor. He betrayed VV and VV is a crazy immortal. VV could have sent 20 assassins after him and they could have all descended on that room. He could have tried to save Shirley but failed. I mean, Shirley was his friend, too. No reason for him to kill her!

Maybe he left her there because the fight took him to the other side of the mall.

[Anh_Minh]

Shirley wasn't his friend. She was his rival for Lelouch's attention.

[Jaden]

Those stats for the various black knights must have been a joke. XD

Anyway, to the main issue. What a bastard Rolo is! Seriously, his only strong part is killing people, and that's the best he can do, stab a girl through the aorta? Is he a sadist or just an idiot? And then about Lelou geassing her. I think he should have known better than to use "Don't die". "Who did this?" would have been more like him. But I think he will find out anyway.