Da Capo Second Season

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by Furudanuki

Well, if you all promise to be gentle, I'll take a big risk and admit that I liked Nemu in both seasons of D.C. - faults and all. She always gets a lot of flak from people for being jealous, but with all the beautiful girls paying attention to Junichi I find it hard to blame her too much for that. And I got the impression early on that she does the "Evil Nemu" routine mostly because she has learned that a lot of times that is the only way to really make him realize how he is treating her. And the reunion scene with Sakura in D.C.S.S. was a beautiful moment - if I hadn't liked her already, I would have after that episode.

I actually like Nemu too (Not as much as Moe, but more than Kotori, but I do still like Kotori well enough). As a matter of fact, I think I might like "Evil Nemu" more than normal Nemu (who seems kind of, I dunno, servile to Junichi). So, y'know, you're not alone.

[relentlessflame]

Well, I guess my point was more like, we can all identify with Kotori to a certain degree. You're supposed to feel sorry for what she's going through, even if she isn't your favorite character in the show. As for who my favorite character is... well, way back in the old thread, I said I liked both Kotori and Nemu equally and a few people said that was a cop-out answer. But hey, that's still the case. Actually, I like all the characters in Da Capo a lot - each is enjoyable in their own way.

Did want to ask about one other thing though...

Originally Posted by rooboy666

I have to agree with Anime on My Mind that the downgrade from Yoriko to Aisia is probably the worst first season to second season downgrade ever

What do they mean by that, though? They couldn't bring Yoriko back due to the plot in the game (they needed to bring in Misaki instead, which they did), and they needed an outsider to stir things up and make the plot work (which is what Aisia did). Do they/you just mean that you liked Yoriko way more than Aisia? I guess I just don't see how you can compare them - it's like apples and oranges.

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Well, I guess my point was more like, we can all identify with Kotori to a certain degree. You're supposed to feel sorry for what she's going through, even if she isn't your favorite character in the show. As for who my favorite character is... well, way back in the old thread, I said I liked both Kotori and Nemu equally and a few people said that was a cop-out answer. But hey, that's still the case. Actually, I like all the characters in Da Capo a lot - each is enjoyable in their own way.

I would say I like Kotori and Nemu equally, but that would be a cop out answer. So I say I like Nemu slightly better.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Did want to ask about one other thing though...
What do they mean by that, though? They couldn't bring Yoriko back due to the plot in the game (they needed to bring in Misaki instead, which they did), and they needed an outsider to stir things up and make the plot work (which is what Aisia did). Do they/you just mean that you liked Yoriko way more than Aisia? I guess I just don't see how you can compare them - it's like apples and oranges.

No, it's from earlier in the season for the half dozen or so episodes where Aisia took over Kotori's role as the clumsy meido for the show. Of course, in reality, it didn't last long as that wasn't really her job to begin with, but for awhile it seemed like she'd pretty much replaced Yoriko. Though, they really didn't replace Yoriko with anyone, just Aisia for a few episodes. It was intended to be humorous.

EDIT: Just realized who I was talking to. He wasn't talking in a thematic or plot device sense, he just meant she replaced Yoriko's role as the generic "clumsy meido" role. Sort of like Taeko in Ai Yori Aoshi. But since she lacked nekomimi, it becomes a downgrade to regular clumsy meido, instead of nekomimi clumsy meido.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by rooboy666

I would say I like Kotori and Nemu equally, but that would be a cop out answer. So I say I like Nemu slightly better.

Hmm... looks like, as AvatarST suggested, I should play through some of the other girls' paths in the game so I can get a different favorite to break the tie. (This is why it's a good thing that anime-Junichi is more decisive than I am, and that the game has lets you save at any time in case you change your mind... )

Originally Posted by rooboy666

No, it's from earlier in the season for the half dozen or so episodes where Aisia took over [edit: Yoriko]'s role as the clumsy meido for the show. Of course, in reality, it didn't last long as that wasn't really her job to begin with, but for awhile it seemed like she'd pretty much replaced Yoriko. Though, they really didn't replace Yoriko with anyone, just Aisia for a few episodes. It was intended to be humorous.

Ahhh... okay, now I get it. Makes sense. And yeah... now that you mention, Junichi does have this strange habit of taking it girls that seem vulnerable but ending causing a lot of trouble around the house. (Well, I guess he doesn't need them any more now that he has... )

(Edit: Yup, got it. Missed the connection entirely at first, but makes perfect sense now that you've clarified it.)

[Furudanuki]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Well, I guess my point was more like, we can all identify with Kotori to a certain degree. You're supposed to feel sorry for what she's going through, even if she isn't your favorite character in the show. As for who my favorite character is... well, way back in the old thread, I said I liked both Kotori and Nemu equally and a few people said that was a cop-out answer. But hey, that's still the case. Actually, I like all the characters in Da Capo a lot - each is enjoyable in their own way.

Well said, and I don't think it is a cop-out at all to say you like two characters equally. There are several series where I find that is the case, and it usually involves characters who are quite different from each other - I wind up liking them both, but for different reasons. And don't even get me started on the number of times I've said something like "personally I prefer X, but Y would be a better match for the lead character."

[AvatarST]

Originally Posted by Furudanuki

Well, if you all promise to be gentle, I'll take a big risk and admit that I liked Nemu in both seasons of D.C. - faults and all. She always gets a lot of flak from people for being jealous, but with all the beautiful girls paying attention to Junichi I find it hard to blame her too much for that. And I got the impression early on that she does the "Evil Nemu" routine mostly because she has learned that a lot of times that is the only way to really make him realize how he is treating her. And the reunion scene with Sakura in D.C.S.S. was a beautiful moment - if I hadn't liked her already, I would have after that episode.

As for Kotori: she is a wonderful character, and I felt they did a pretty satisfactory job in the first season of resolving her feelings for Junichi. I thought the post-confession scene of her skipping school was one of the more wonderful moments of the first season. But the writers really and truly did Kotori wrong in the second season by re-opening up the possibility of a romantic relationship for her and Junichi. It was a no-win situation from the start. If Junichi had dumped Nemu for Kotori in D.C.S.S. it would have been unfair to Nemu, but even worse it would match Kotori up with someone who had just proven by his lack of faithfulness that he did not deserve her. <heavy sigh> Yeah, I'm not very happy at all with how Kotori's arc has played out. I just wish so many people didn't feel that it was all Nemu's fault.

end of confession.

Everyone around here is pretty civil, so don't worry.

Anyway, I dislike Nemu because of who she is and what she does, not because she "took Jyunichi from Kotori". She didn't because Jyunichi loves Nemu, and that's as simple as it gets.

relentlessflame - I really recommend Alice's path. And if you have SV, play that right after. She's just...so lovely. I don't know who I like better anymore, Kotori or her.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by AvatarST

relentlessflame - I really recommend Alice's path. And if you have SV, play that right after. She's just...so lovely. I don't know who I like better anymore, Kotori or her.

As soon as they announced Four Seasons, I decided to hold out on Summer Vacation for a while, thinking they might port that one back too (like they did with Plus Communication)... though I don't know if that's what they'll do or not, so... it's a battle of patience. I would buy the PS2 game as the lack of H really doesn't bother me (and the anime voice actors are better...), but I think I'm one of the few people left that actually does not have a modded PS2. I may have to buy a Japanese one, but that just seems like a bit much somehow... (And yeah, from what I've seen in the anime, I think Alice is my favorite of the new characters.)

By the way, has anyone figured out yet what's different about the D.C.P.C. re-release (the Appreciation Pack)?

[AvatarST]

As soon as they announced Four Seasons, I decided to hold out on Summer Vacation for a while, thinking they might port that one back too (like they did with Plus Communication)... though I don't know if that's what they'll do or not, so... it's a battle of patience. I would buy the PS2 game as the lack of H really doesn't bother me (and the anime voice actors are better...), but I think I'm one of the few people left that actually does not have a modded PS2. I may have to buy a Japanese one, but that just seems like a bit much somehow... (And yeah, from what I've seen in the anime, I think Alice is my favorite of the new characters.)

By the way, has anyone figured out yet what's different about the D.C.P.C. re-release (the Appreciation Pack)?

Actually I don't really give a damn about the H-scenes, they can be there or not and I don't care, I play those games because I'm a sucker for love stories and b-games in general.

I'd guess that they'll port Four Seasons, yes. If it had no new material and it was just WS+SV then I'd say maybe not, but it has new routes for other characters, the new Kotori path, more CGs, etc.

Alice is my favourite indeed, though I know most people like Tamaki out of the new characters.

As for your question, I have no idea.

[DrewGSR]

Damn having Nemu do everything from taking care of him and serving him, must be nice lol.

[studiocode]

When I thought that his fling with Nemu was over I thought that was a good premise for a second season. However, what was the point of a second season if nothing new happens? In season one, they dragged out a boring melodrama forever and agonized over an unrequitted love and finally he ended up with one of the girls whether you agreed with it or not. What is the point of making even more girls fall in love with him if they are going to bring Nemu back and have them continue their stupid relationship?! And yes, their relationship is stupid. At the end of season one, it wasn't funny, it wasn't romantic, and it was a pathetic attempt at drama because there was really no story whatsoever.

Wow, this show was blatant false advertising. They took Nemu away for 6 episodes because they know how boring it would be for us to see a bunch of girls obsessing over one guy when he's in a relationship declaring eternal love and all that mushy junk. They tricked us into thinking things could be different when really they just wanted things to stay the same. They showed us all these possible romantic interests and then brought Nemu back? What was the point of a second season then? Nothing has changed. Nemu probably doesn't deserve him more than Kotori (definately doesn't in my opinion) but they are already together so what's the point? Sequels are usually dumb but they are even dumber if it's just the same exact story as the first.

I stopped watching at episode 10. I really can't sit through anymore because I liked Kotori since the first episode but she was obviously only there to serve as fanservice so you can buy the figurines, merchandise, etc...I'll try and watch it maybe a few years down the line, maybe, but could somebody answer some questions because I can't watch anymore for now:

1. Does any romantic relationship develop between Aisia and Asakura? I thought they made the 2nd best pair.

2. Does anything EVER happen between Kotori and Asakura? Why drag out an unrequitted love over not 1 but 2 seasons? Tell some kind of story. Something has to happen over 3 years time, come on. Break him and Nemu up or bring some resolution to his outside relationships. Don't keep teasing us just to peddle your show. That's marketing infringing on storytelling which should never happen.

3. When Sakura comes back (I read some posts where she came back) is she an adult? Does anything happen between her and Asakura?

4. How does the series end? Could you also do like a couple sentence summary after episode 10? (I checked anidb and I think it is over now)

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by studiocode

They took Nemu away for 6 episodes because they know how boring it would be for us to see a bunch of girls obsessing over one guy when he's in a relationship declaring eternal love and all that mushy junk. They tricked us into thinking things could be different when really they just wanted things to stay the same. They showed us all these possible romantic interests and then brought Nemu back? What was the point of a second season then? Nothing has changed. Nemu probably doesn't deserve him more than Kotori (definately doesn't in my opinion) but they are already together so what's the point?

Spoiler for my opinion:

Because Second Season isn't about which girl is most deserving, and it isn't about showing the other girls moving on or Junichi making a second choice. It's about accepting that there's no magic way to make everyone happy. There's simply no way to turn back time and get a true second chance. Junichi & Nemu's relationship wasn't just a fling - it's love, like it or not. There is a way to be happy even if your romantic dreams can't come true, but wishing things would change or begrudging your fate isn't the answer. They weren't trying to trick you, they were trying to prove their point, and (in my opinion) they did. D.C.S.S. is a show about love, not romance; the purpose of the show is to teach Aisia (and you, the viewer) the difference between the two. If that doesn't sound like something you'd like to watch a show about, then I certainly can understand your frustration. Personally, though, I really liked this show a lot.

[studiocode]

That's the MORAL of the story. No arguments there.

It's a nice moral sure but there really is no STORY to speak of here. You say that it's not about any of the girls moving on or finding love, and that is exactly why the show is so weak: because that isn't the story when it should be.

Why introduce subplots and sub characters and devote time if you aren't going to go anywhere with them? Otherwise, what was the point of all those tender moments with those love interests? I see no reason why they did a sequel. Logic would dictate that after the ending of season one the sequel can't be a harem romance right? Well the writers use a cheap trick and take Nemu out for 6 episodes just so that they still can. Surely you can see through this false advertising.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by studiocode

That's the MORAL of the story. No arguments there.

It's a nice moral sure but there really is no STORY to speak of here. You say that it's not about any of the girls moving on or finding love, and that is exactly why the show is so weak: because that isn't the story when it should be.

Why introduce subplots and sub characters and devote time if you aren't going to go anywhere with them? Otherwise, what was the point of all those tender moments with those love interests? I see no reason why they did a sequel. Logic would dictate that after the ending of season one the sequel can't be a harem romance right? Well the writers use a cheap trick and take Nemu out for 6 episodes just so that they still can. Surely you can see through this false advertising.

I struggled to come up with a response because I can't relate to the basis of your claims. It seems to me like saying "Why isn't D.C.S.S. more like Shuffle" or something - the answer is "because it's not"... You say the story is weak because the story isn't about what you wanted it to be about (or as you said, as "it should be")... how does that work? Is there a right or wrong way to write a story? For me personally, all I've ever said is that an effective story must justify itself.

Well, anyway, for what it's worth...

Spoiler for more opinions:

It's not a "cheap trick", and they weren't trying to make you think that "the race is on" all over again. The first six episodes are what lead to the creation of Aisia's argument and the very point of the show. Kotori seemed happy when spending time with Junichi, but was ultimately sad that she lost her chance with him - his heart was still fixed on Nemu. Aisia noticed a similar trend with the other girls and, when Nemu returned, she came to believe that Nemu was standing in the way of the other girls' happiness. It's there to support the argument, and the story exists to deliver the moral, which is why I call it a fable. If not for that beginning, why else would you believe in Aisia's argument (or realize that it's a lie), and how else could they deliver the moral of the story? It's not like season one because season one had a well-justified ending. Instead, they're using Second Season to show us life after the "harem lead" finds his true love, and to teach us a lesson about finding happiness (or rather, how you can never find it).

Anyway, I'm sorry that I can't relate to what you're saying. I really do look more at "how do they justify it" when judging the merits of a story, so I guess I can't really explain the show in any other way. It still sounds to me like you're saying "I would have liked the show better if they had done this or that instead", but that's speculation and doesn't explain or justify the anime we did get. Anyway, maybe someone else can give answering your questions a shot.

[Counter Arts]

lol... I guess everybody kinda misunderstood me when I said I indentified with Kotori. But first... I shall talk about the other things.

I think what people don't like about Nemu x Junichi ending is the fact that for most there is no significant percieved change. However there are a few interesting developments that have been horribly spoiled for me for my lack of bittorrent and bad rolls on my will saves.

And about Kotori's flaws... well I can say being selfless is a flaw. Sure... for everyone else it's great so they wouldn't consider it a flaw. However it's a flaw for her since it's not always a good thing for her. Being selfless requires a heck of a lot of energy and can eventually lead to an emotional breakdown without support. This isn't a made up flaw in my head since...

Spoiler:

... Kotori was practically emotionally broken for a little bit in the first season. Quite fortunate, Junichi was there, she was.

Something not quite the same but simliar is Kaede in shuffle. Now tell me please that you see that Kaede has a significigant flaw. Makes me wonder what would happen if Junichi wasn't there for Kotori.

Kotori has grown a lot since then. Her views on life and such have become much stronger... whatever they are. Remember how Kotori was in season one and look at Kotori now in season two. Kotori has become teh awesomeness at the price of never "winning".

I kinda like season two because I got to see Kotori in the height of her awesomeness. I can't really say that until I see it all though. Though, it wouldn't surprise me if Kotori ended up being key in helping the Nemu x Junichi pairing.

Back to what I meant about identifing with Kotori. I kinda meant that there are people running around in this world who would act just like her with the selfless, naive, keep-problems-to-self combination of flaws.

Also, for those who know about the MBTI... I'm not exactly sure of Kotori's type though I kinda have a good guess.

[Observation]

Massive spoiler for DCSS ending. It is a screencap btw. View at your own risk.

Spoiler for DCSS ending:

[Paracelsus]

That image is worth a thousand spoilers.....oh well

[AvatarST]

Spoiler for picture:

Mm...I'm waiting for the raws, and the actual interesting stuff. (sorry, JyunichixNemu fans, I couldn't resist taking a cheap shot at that)

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Counter Arts

Also, for those who know about the MBTI... I'm not exactly sure of Kotori's type though I kinda have a good guess.

If I were to guess, I'd probably say ISFP or INFP - I sort of border between the two myself, though leaning towards N. Good post, once again.

And, Omni (scratch that - Observation - I'm an idiot...), as for the spoiler, all I can say is...

Spoiler:

Yup... Makes perfect sense to me, and that's regardless of fanboyism (I'm looking squarely at you, BTW, AvatarST. ).

Edit: That being said, that picture leads to a lot of questions too... like... are we finally admitting the parents are dead? We'll see what actually happens in the episode, even if that scene is in it.

[AvatarST]

Spoiler:

Oh but I admit it IS fanboysim. Of course it makes perfect sense and they have to be together - but that doesn't mean I like those two.

Then I'll edit as well!..but I have not much to say apart from the fact that I'm really impatient as to know what will happen before that which I assume is the final scene.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by AvatarST

Spoiler:

Oh but I admit it IS fanboysim. Of course it makes perfect sense and they have to be together - but that doesn't mean I like those two.

Then I'll edit as well!..but I have not much to say apart from the fact that I'm really impatient as to know what will happen before that which I assume is the final scene.

Spoiler:

Hahaha... yeah, I know... You've been nothing if not consistent in your applied Nemu hatred, in this thread and beyond.

And yeah, of course the problem with that picture is that there's no Aisia, which could mean anything.