(L+CR) Magi: The Kingdom of Magic

[Hiroshi Amearai]

Nice emotional episode. I didn't have such feel in the manga. Also, why there're 2 episode this week? There isn't any episode next week are something?

[ChampDream]

nice episode, showing what Mogamett really see the goi like bugs and pets was really creepy, also:

Spoiler for spoiler:

I notice they skip the part where it show when Aladdin choose that class.

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by Hiroshi Amearai

Nice emotional episode. I didn't have such feel in the manga. Also, why there're 2 episode this week? There isn't any episode next week are something?

What are you talking about? There is only episode 16 out this week.

[Haak]

I'll be honest, i haven't really been that engaged in this plotline for the last few episodes. For one thing, whilst the dystopian class structure was an interesting twist, I don't feel like the story is taking advantage of it's potential. I seriously wondered if the old man believed he could convince Aladdin that the system was good since I felt it was such a poor attempt at justifying it, especially since he never addressed the whole "we throw innocent children down a gigantic hole if they're too weak to supply us with magoi" issue. If it was just meant to turn the other students against him then I can understand that but I'm not sure if that's supposed to be the case or not. Even then, Aladdin had plenty of opportunity to talk to the other students about what he really saw but never did. The debate has the potential to be an interesting one but I don't really feel like it's being addressed as it logically should.

The other problem I have is that it just lacks emotional impact for me. Both the underground twist and the old man's backstory were interesting but had the same silly "let's insert a cute innocent child that just wants happiness" trope that it feels the need to throw in my face all the damn time (Bonus points for one of them being sick). I really think this show just needs to lay off that particular trope because now it's starting to get on my nerves. I still like the show of course, but that I could do without.

[CBredbeard]

Originally Posted by Haak

The other problem I have is that it just lacks emotional impact for me. Both the underground twist and the old man's backstory were interesting but had the same silly "let's insert a cute innocent child that just wants happiness" trope that it feels the need to throw in my face all the damn time (Bonus points for one of them being sick). I really think this show just needs to lay off that particular trope because now it's starting to get on my nerves. I still like the show of course, but that I could do without.

She has a lot in common with Titus. They're facing similar circumstances, which is kind of the point.

Cute little kids in Magi are practically a staple. They aren't going away anytime soon lol

[Hiroshi Amearai]

Originally Posted by kitten320

What are you talking about? There is only episode 16 out this week.

There's episode 17 too. This is an 1 hour special this week in Japan. I don't know why CR left out 17.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by CBredbeard

She has a lot in common with Titus. They're facing similar circumstances, which is kind of the point.

I didn't miss the point of it. I was talking purely about my emotional involvement.

[CBredbeard]

Originally Posted by Haak

I didn't miss the point of it. I was talking purely about emotional involvement.

To each their own I suppose. Magi has had a lot of little kids that have needed saving at one point or another. Starting with the little girl that got caught by the desert plant when Alibaba was introduced and since then, there's probably been a half dozen notable examples.

I will see that Marga is one of the more...controversial examples. She does seem to serve as a bit of distraction from the true horror of what's going on in Magnostadt. She actually wouldn't be that bad if not for the fact that basically all of the issues we see raised by her and the treatment of the goi by the magicians is practically forgotten after being introduced.

Only Titus raises intelligent objections and he's easily silenced by Marga. Aladdin has nothing to say concerning the matter and merely sits idle while watching things unfold.

P.S. The most annoying thing about the entire arc is that basically everyone falls into the trap that somehow magicians really are a separate species, when they don't even qualify as a distinct race. Fanalis stand out even more than magicians do in terms of differences, yet people generally don't treat them as something other than human.

Magicians aren't more aggrieved than any other group of people in the setting, yet this arc goes out of it's way to treat them like they're special snowflakes who's anger needs to be placated no matter the cost.

[Dark Faith]

While I'm not expecting Aladdin to reveal everything he knows about the world's ending, I really expected him to give Mogamett a run for his money when trying to justify his actions. Feels to me that Aladdin gave up too easy and thus wasted a lot of potential that plot point might've had.

And okay episode otherwise. Looks like Titus' going to switch sides so he can live a longer life alongside his loli.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Dark Faith

While I'm not expecting Aladdin to reveal everything he knows about the world's ending, I really expected him to give Mogamett a run for his money when trying to justify his actions. Feels to me that Aladdin gave up too easy and thus wasted a lot of potential that plot point might've had.

One of the problems is that, while Aladdin knows that they're on the wrong path, he doesn't really have a better alternative to propose. And even if he somehow supplanted Mogamett and decreed "no more 5th district! From now on, everybody works for a living and we stop using magic tools so much. No more running water, no more easy, sure harvests.", then he'd have a rebellion on his hands. And not just from the privileged class.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

One of the problems is that, while Aladdin knows that they're on the wrong path, he doesn't really have a better alternative to propose. And even if he somehow supplanted Mogamett and decreed "no more 5th district! From now on, everybody works for a living and we stop using magic tools so much. No more running water, no more easy, sure harvests.", then he'd have a rebellion on his hands. And not just from the privileged class.

Yes, the problem is that this system, while pretty revolting to us viewers and definitely not ideal, keeps the majority happy. Even the people from the 5th district are satisfied. They don't have to work, they are provided with ample food and drinks, and their mortality rate has decreased since the old days... their lives have actually improved. Let's not even bring up the people from the other districts who are pretty much living in an utopia. How do you convince these people this system is wrong unless you have a better alternative to offer? He'd probably be able to convince them with a good speech in another shounen, but life in Magi isn't that easy.

[Dark Faith]

What baffles me the most is the fact that Mogamett's surrounded by white rukh. I mean, I can concede the fact that his intentions are good...but the method of achieving his dream leaves a lot to be desired.
Treating everyone who isn't a magician like livestock and/or vermin seems like something that would turn your rukh pitch black, regardless of how good your intentions for your master race might be.

[CBredbeard]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

One of the problems is that, while Aladdin knows that they're on the wrong path, he doesn't really have a better alternative to propose. And even if he somehow supplanted Mogamett and decreed "no more 5th district! From now on, everybody works for a living and we stop using magic tools so much. No more running water, no more easy, sure harvests.", then he'd have a rebellion on his hands. And not just from the privileged class.

Mogamett's arguments were grounded in the belief that somehow magicians were smarter and more noble than other humans beings by virtue of simply being magicians, but even in the context of the story he told, Mogamett admitted to being a shrewd operator, basically doing exactly what the nobles were afraid of him doing in the first place.

The king might have forced magicians to perform magic to combat droughts or to act as living shields, but isn't that something a king should do when his country is facing a crisis? Sacrificing the few for the sake of the many? Obviously expressing some satisfaction from doing so, some malice, and dehumanizing magicians was bullshit, but even if magicians were treated like they were the king's best friends, those kind of sacrifices probably would have still taken place out of sheer necessity.

Magicians were turned into scapegoats to diminish their popularity amongst the populace, but that was rooted in the fear that the magicians would induce a revolt. And what do the magicians do? Justify those fears and cause a revolt!

It wasn't even like the king and nobility were bad as rulers or the government was corrupt. Not like how it was in Balbaad. It really did amount to Mogamett and the other magicians wanting to be the ones in charge, and the only reason they were more successful after the fact was because they have a bag of cheap and easy tricks to draw from, not because they were better rulers.

As for being smarter, obviously magicians still need Goi to perform tasks for them. Just like anyone else, they can only specialize in one or two fields. I imagine that the city itself was designed and built by goi architects and engineers. And even if magicians have healing magic, that's not the same as being a doctor. Magicians probably have no idea how the human body even works.

Now, I will grant it to Titus and Aladdin that it was a lot to take in all at once and Mogamett was a practiced propagandist, but they pretty much gave up.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Dark Faith

What baffles me the most is the fact that Mogamett's surrounded by white rukh. I mean, I can concede the fact that his intentions are good...but the method of achieving his dream leaves a lot to be desired.
Treating everyone who isn't a magician like livestock and/or vermin seems like something that would turn your rukh pitch black, regardless of how good your intentions for your master race might be.

The rukh becomes black when a person "curses his fate" which is a fancy name for thinking that your life has no meaning and giving in to existential despair. In fact, episode 17 shows an example of this with Titus. He was developing black ruck when he was told that he would die pretty soon.

Mogamett doesn't develop black rukh because he found a new meaning, a new path for his life as the "father" and protector of all magicians. As long as he believes in what he's doing, he will be fine.

[CBredbeard]

Originally Posted by Kanon

He'd probably be able to convince them with a good speech in another shounen, but life in Magi isn't that easy.

Thing is, Aladdin does nothing at all. He barely even disagrees and leaves it at that.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by CBredbeard

Mogamett's arguments were grounded in the belief that somehow magicians were smarter and more noble than other humans beings by virtue of simply being magicians, but even in the context of the story he told, Mogamett admitted to being a shrewd operator, basically doing exactly what the nobles were afraid of him doing in the first place.

In his mind, he did it out of self-defense.

Really, he did it out of fear and revenge, though you can't argue he didn't have good reasons.

The king might have forced magicians to perform magic to combat droughts or to act as living shields, but isn't that something a king should do when his country is facing a crisis? Sacrificing the few for the sake of the many? Obviously expressing some satisfaction from doing so, some malice, and dehumanizing magicians was bullshit, but even if magicians were treated like they were the king's best friends, those kind of sacrifices probably would have still taken place out of sheer necessity.

If they'd been better treated, they might have found better ways with fewer sacrifices. Or maybe everyone would have had to tighten their belts, but nobody would have died. Don't try to whitewash it. They were treated like disposable and practically worthless. That's why they died.

Magicians were turned into scapegoats to diminish their popularity amongst the populace, but that was rooted in the fear that the magicians would induce a revolt. And what do the magicians do? Justify those fears and cause a revolt!

So, you're afraid that someone who's never hurt you maybe will, so you punch him in the face. And then you complain when he kicks your ass? Nice mentality.

It wasn't even like the king and nobility were bad as rulers or the government was corrupt. Not like how it was in Balbaad. It really did amount to Mogamett and the other magicians wanting to be the ones in charge, and the only reason they were more successful after the fact was because they have a bag of cheap and easy tricks to draw from, not because they were better rulers.

Neither the common populace nor the magicians were valued by the nobles for more than the luxuries they could provide. They certainly weren't respected. Did the magicians want to be in charge? Yes. Because as far as their experience went, if they weren't, they'd just be exploited and persecuted.

As for being smarter, obviously magicians still need Goi to perform tasks for them. Just like anyone else, they can only specialize in one or two fields. I imagine that the city itself was designed and built by goi architects and engineers. And even if magicians have healing magic, that's not the same as being a doctor. Magicians probably have no idea how the human body even works.

Except there was no goi magician to treat Marga. So they either don't need that knowledge, or they bloody well have it.

[CBredbeard]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

In his mind, he did it out of self-defense.

Really, he did it out of fear and revenge, though you can't argue he didn't have good reasons.

He had good reason to be afraid and vengeful. He didn't have good reasons for the things he did.

If they'd been better treated, they might have found better ways with fewer sacrifices. Or maybe everyone would have had to tighten their belts, but nobody would have died. Don't try to whitewash it. They were treated like disposable and practically worthless. That's why they died.

Tighten their belts? Are you kidding? In the kind of world they lived in, people would easily starve to death even in the richest, most prosperous countries. A drought could destroy a country.

As for their use as living shields, the Borg is a superior means of defense. It only makes sense to put someone in front that can take many more blows than someone else. Using magicians to act as shields probably saved hundreds of lives and won battles.

What's more, magicians were elevated to the aristocracy and allowed to form a school for precisely that reason. The King did treat them well and support them, however, the magicians exceeded all expectations, which lead to...

So, you're afraid that someone who's never hurt you maybe will, so you punch him in the face. And then you complain when he kicks your ass? Nice mentality.

More like a politician launching a smear campaign against his more popular rival. Perhaps the nobles were wrong to be fearful of Mogamett and the magicians, but it was impossible for them to know that for sure.

Neither the common populace nor the magicians were valued by the nobles for more than the luxuries they could provide.

We don't know that. Frankly, from what we do know, the Mustafan royal family was one of the better one's we've seen in the manga. I mean, the only reason parroted for the revolution in the first place was because the nobility wanted to maintain complete control over the use of magic. Nothing about starvation, excessive taxes, or an unjust government.

Just a severe sense of entitlement from the population induced by the magicians as part of their plan to take over the country.

I mean, really, if things were really terrible, Mogamett would have chosen really terrible examples of the nobles being dicks, since he's trying to convince the students that he's right, but the only examples he's got are magicians being made to provide water for crops during a drought or magicians being used as shields because another country had attacked them.

That is not a terrible excess. If he'd said something like "Many magicians lost their lives to provide water for the king's flower garden", that would be bad, but there wasn't anything like that.

They certainly weren't respected.

No, they were feared, which is even better than respect.

Did the magicians want to be in charge? Yes. Because as far as their experience went, if they weren't, they'd just be exploited and persecuted.

Which wouldn't be really all that different than anyone else that lived was drafted into the military or was expected to perform a special task for the sake of the kingdom.

Except there was no goi magician to treat Marga. So they either don't need that knowledge, or they bloody well have it.

No, doctors are a vital member of society in Magnostadt. I think in the class structure, they're a Class III, which is as high as a goi can get. People that actually know how the body works would be absolutely necessary when formulating a healing spell. Otherwise a magician would be liable to do more harm than good.

Point in case, life magic is one the branches that tends to be used for healing...but it also turns people into trees and creates horrible monstrosities. Really, if a magician just started bathing a sick person in life rukh, while that person was suffering from a bacterial infection, just what do you think would happen? The bacteria would nom them, like gasoline on a fire.

What's more, a doctor's disposition for treating people is as important as their medical knowledge. They have to actually care about not only their patient, but also about what they're doing. They have to want to avoid doing any harm to the patient through a strenuous effort.

Most of the magicians we saw at the academy were closer to scientists or warriors. Even ones that specialized in life magic like Meyers's brother won't necessarily be interested in healing people and would instead prefer to create monsters.

[Hiroshi Amearai]

Spoiler for Episode 17:

So Titus is just a lifeform created by Scheherazade and he doesn't have much longer to live. Morgamett's love for magician is a real deal. He doesn't want Titus's rukh to turn black. He won't even give up on Titus even if that means war with Laem. He's truly a great guy for magician. If only he didn't hate the goi so much... Also, his biggest sin is the creation of Black Djinn and Black metal vessel. But also, he did that just to protect his people, the magician. Also the Kou's army is coming too. Anyway, It's time for war! And lol at Alibaba. That's what you say when you're going to war?

[hamazura]

i cried.... these lolicon couple is just too....

[Dark Faith]

Err... Mogamett?

Spoiler for Ep 17:

Ythnan shared metal vessels with non-magicians so we severed ties with Al-Thamen.
What? Pirates had metal vessels too? Yeah, we sold those to them. In fact, we're planning to mass produce them and sell those for some sweet profit!

At times, he almost makes Al-Thamen look like the good guys. At least they give things away for free