Nintendo Wii U

[GDB]

Nintendo hasn't had a solid launch lineup for their consoles in almost 20 years.

The Wii, for example, had Twilight Princess. Everything else was crap, with the next best basically being Red Steel, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, or Rayman Raving Rabbids.

Gamecube had absolutely nothing. Best games were Luigi's Mansion and Wave Race.

Last time they had a good launch lineup was the N64, which included a whopping Super Mario 64 and Pilot Wings 64.

[Solace]

No one knows what the NX actually is yet, so it's anyone's guess if Zelda will migrate to a new console like Twilight Princess did. For all we know, it's a new handheld or some sort of "third pillar" idea like the DS was.

It's really not shocking news though. They already have a big rpg this year, Xenoblade, so it's mostly just a matter of using E3 to explain how they'll plug the holes around that title until Zelda arrives (in whatever form) next year.

One interesting bit that will definitely fuel the "it's going to the next gen console" rumors is that Zelda won't be shown at E3 at all this year. This suggests something more drastic than "it's just not ready", given what they'd already shown and said about how far it is in development. To go from a relatively open door (for Nintendo) to closing the door entirely, it makes me wonder if they decided on a pretty big change to development (new tech, new design direction, etc.) that they aren't ready to talk about for a while.

In regards to launch lineups, it doesn't seem to matter much. Hype sells consoles during that period, and games can contribute to that, but it's mostly marketing's job to get people in stores. Which, outside of the excellent "Wii would like to play" commercials, Nintendo has sucked at since Sega went into decline.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Solace

For all we know, it's a new handheld or some sort of "third pillar" idea like the DS was.

What does this even mean? The DS clearly was the next iteration of the Game Boy, and even included a slot to play GBA games.

And the reason people expect a new console is because the Wii U is pretty much a failure. It's no Dreamcast, mind you, but it's not much better. If Nintendo's savings were only as large as Sony's or Microsoft's, we'd be getting Mario and Zelda on Playstation and Xbox by now. Meanwhile, the 3DS is a smash hit that continues to sell like hot cakes.

Originally Posted by Solace

To go from a relatively open door (for Nintendo) to closing the door entirely, it makes me wonder if they decided on a pretty big change to development (new tech, new design direction, etc.) that they aren't ready to talk about for a while.

Like how they announced Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem two years ago (July 2013), and then didn't say another single word about it until last E3 (June 2014), where they had to be prodded about whether it was canceled or not? Only to answer saying it's not canceled, and is moving along according to schedule? And no word since then.

And to top it off, Zelda was given a release date before it, despite being announced a year later. So you can just imagine how much longer it'll be.

Originally Posted by Solace

In regards to launch lineups, it doesn't seem to matter much. Hype sells consoles during that period, and games can contribute to that, but it's mostly marketing's job to get people in stores. Which, outside of the excellent "Wii would like to play" commercials, Nintendo has sucked at since Sega went into decline.

I don't know, looking at this generation's launches shows me that outside of some dedicated fans, people have taken a "wait and see" approach before buying. Likely because of the PS3/Wii launches, where nothing worthwhile came out for long periods of time.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by GDB

What does this even mean? The DS clearly was the next iteration of the Game Boy, and even included a slot to play GBA games.

The DS was a market test, and it did decently enough the first year it was on the market. The GBA was still going strong, but the DS didn't take off until the Nintendogs/cats and a few other titles struck gold and the DS Lite pushed sales into the stratosphere.

If the DS had never found its market, the GameBoy line would still be around. Sure, you can argue that the DS "third pillar" thing was a trojan horse to replace the GameBoy, but Nintendo never presented it that way and they had good reason to: the initial concept and design of the system was not very sleek or easy to understand. Why would you need two screens? Why does it look like a chunk of plastic? In hindsight, the system was brilliant. But back then, it was given a healthy dose of skepticism and nay/doomsaying.

And the reason people expect a new console is because the Wii U is pretty much a failure. It's no Dreamcast, mind you, but it's not much better. If Nintendo's savings were only as large as Sony's or Microsoft's, we'd be getting Mario and Zelda on Playstation and Xbox by now. Meanwhile, the 3DS is a smash hit that continues to sell like hot cakes.

3DS sales are declining, actually. The new revision is selling well at the moment, but the general trend is not a positive one. The console is long in the tooth and due for a replacement. It's had an amazing run, considering sales were horrible the first six months it was on the market. Huzzah for Mario Kart and Ambassador programs!

The Wii U is a market failure, but it's not losing Nintendo money anymore. They obviously want to replace it, but not until they get their stuff lined up. One console failure is hardly enough to sink Nintendo. People are expecting a new console because they want a new console. It's not like the console lacks good games.

At the pace its selling, it's not going to harm the company to keep it on the market for another year. In fact, it's probably going to do them favors. By not abandoning the console, they're doing their faithful a solid, and the rumors of their next console keep them in the mindshare of consumers and press while creating and sustaining the hype of "what could they possibly do next".

Just look at how much of a stir "NX" has caused. There's literally nothing known about it, and people are already going nuts over it.

Like how they announced Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem two years ago (July 2013), and then didn't say another single word about it until last E3 (June 2014), where they had to be prodded about whether it was canceled or not? Only to answer saying it's not canceled, and is moving along according to schedule? And no word since then.

And to top it off, Zelda was given a release date before it, despite being announced a year later. So you can just imagine how much longer it'll be.

I have doubts SMTxFE will ever be a thing, but you never know. I think it was Nintendo in panic mode, to be honest. That Direct was awesome and strange, looking back on it. You saw Nintendo announcing games that were years down the road, something they rarely do.

But as you said, Zelda was shown and dated. They stressed how important it was to hit 2015. Now they're pushing it back. The difference is that one is basically just a title, and the other is a product they were actually showing off and actively discussing with the press/community. For them to suddenly push the release date back is one thing, and people kind of expected that, but to not talk about it at E3 is strange. It suggests development is shifting in a way that contradicts or changes what they've already shown significantly and that they aren't ready to show/explain what that reason is.

That's just me speculating, though. It's possible they just didn't want "where's Zelda" to overshadow the rest of the games being shown.

I don't know, looking at this generation's launches shows me that outside of some dedicated fans, people have taken a "wait and see" approach before buying. Likely because of the PS3/Wii launches, where nothing worthwhile came out for long periods of time.

Both the PS4 and One are selling extremely well for not having many "must have" games, particularly exclusive ones. Most of the major titles have been cross gen, with some remasters and "definitive editions". So far there isn't much to differentiate them from their predecessors except for better image quality, yet they are outpacing the sales of their previous consoles during the same periods by notable amounts.

Who knows? Maybe people really are just that tired of using decade old consoles.

[Urzu 7]

Nintendo Wii U is kind of a flop...9.3 million units sold so far, and since we don't know if Zelda will hit it, or go to NX, or go to Wii U and NX...who can guess what the sales will be like for Wii U once the Wii U runs its course. The system may only reach to around 11 million in sales.

However, Wii U is flopping in sales, but it is a good system, considering how poorly it has sold and how 3rd parties abandoned it. It has some nice gems and some great gems. Just look at some of these exclusives that make the system worth owning:

Super Mario 3D World
The Legend of Zelda Wind Waker HD
Mario Kart 8
Super Smash Bros. 4
Xenoblade Chronicles X
New Super Mario Bros. U
New Super Luigi U
Pikmin 3
Bayonetta 2
Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze

Also, some quality budget titles:

Captain Toad Treasure Tracker
Kirby and the Rainbow Curse

Plus some smaller caliber, but quality looking games releasing later this year:

Mario Maker
Yoshi's Woolly World

Plus there is Star Fox, and also, NES Remix and NES Remix 2 are some enjoyable and fun games. Also, Shovel Knight is a very good game that released first on Wii U (and 3DS and PC) and has had a lot of sales on the Wii U.

There is more beyond those games that are worth owning on the system...the Wii U has some good and great gems and is worth owning for many Nintendo fans.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Solace

Both the PS4 and One are selling extremely well for not having many "must have" games, particularly exclusive ones. Most of the major titles have been cross gen, with some remasters and "definitive editions". So far there isn't much to differentiate them from their predecessors except for better image quality, yet they are outpacing the sales of their previous consoles during the same periods by notable amounts.

Who knows? Maybe people really are just that tired of using decade old consoles.

It's helps that the PS4 didn't start out at 599 US Dollars like the PS3 did

And also unlike the PS3, they at least announced "must have" games that would eventually be coming, like Final Fantasy XV, Bloodborne, Metal Gear Solid V, etc.

Additionally, the games announced are also the kind of open-world, free roaming cinematic games like the "casual" Western market enjoys. It's something that people have been waiting for since last generation with Final Fantasy XIII (only to be disappointed).

[Dextro]

A friend of mine just linked me to a very extensive story of how the Gamecube came around and all that was going on with Nintendo around that time. It's not really directly related to the Wii U but it does paint a rather clear picture of what Nintendo was like at the time and it helps to understand the way it exists today and how it has positioned itself with the new console.

The message we see nowadays of Nintendo being different and having low numbers of high quality titles is actually very similar to what they were pushing for back in 99 which I found particularly interesting.

The story of how Rare left Nintendo for Microsoft was also particularly hard to read with the company actually hoping for more creative freedom after leaving when the reality was the exact opposite.

It feels like a very personal story about people at Nintendo rather than a company and I like that. I grew up as a Sega fan but Nintendo was won me over with the 3DS and the Wii U. I never would have guessed it back when the systems came out.