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Old 2008-12-13, 02:06   Link #901
DeX-kun
Alto x Ranka :)
 
 
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
First of all I have absolutely no malice towards her, nor have I ever mentioned Sheryl and Alto's relationship in my post. I neither like her nor hate her. Their relationship has nothing to do with the subject matter at hand. Why are you in so defensive?

What I was criticizing her character, Ranka is by no means perfect, in fact there is a lot wrong her character, and I believe being able to admit that is a sign of a true fan, especially when its blatantly obvious. This is not about whether or not Ranka and Alto have any sort of romantic feelings this is about Ranka's character, and how her relationship with others affects her, which needless to say was extremely. Try to stay on topic.

And asking for Alto to accompany her to Vajra land was not standing up for herself. That was her selfishly running away, and trying to take Alto (who has a own duty to Frontier) with her. Also when Brera was beating Alto twice why didn't she stop him? Simply saying stop would have been enough (that frankly reminds me of Minmay in SDF, where Kaifun would chew Hikaru out and Minmay would just sit there and do nothing to stop it). Also her leaving was also not her standing up for herself, because she already had a duty to fulfill and instead of facing the consequences she merely ran away, when it became too hard for her. Also she said and correct me if I'm wrong that she only wanted to bring Ai-kun back to its home, she had no intention of stopping the war between the Vajra and Frontier.

While we're on that subject wasn't it a bit selfish of her to ask Alto to go with her to take Ai-kun home? Especially after they both just witnessed the death of Alto's best friend, by a Vajra that looked just like Ai-kun, in front of their own eyes. Did she even take into account how Alto was feeling? Cause if she did she wouldn't have even thought to ask for such an impossible thing from him.
Sorry, I do apologize for my inconsistencies. The biggest reason I was defensive was because I had just come from the "Romance" thread and I was still in that mode (so to speak.) As for the selfishness, I do agree that most of her actions were not taking Alto's feelings into consideration and that is one of, if not the biggest flaw in her character development (especially with Alto.) You're also correct that Ranka did say that she wanted to take Ai-kun back to his home planet, but it was later revealed that it wasn't her only intention. I wonder what would have happened if she did face her consequences? Honestly after the Vajra attack and seeing how the Vajra reacted, it's kind of hard for her to even sing for the fear that she would attract the Vajra again, at least that's how I see things.

Like you said, there was plenty wrong with her character within the series and there it's really a large part due to the rushed development of other characters (mostly Sheryl) and even the episode count that was finalized. Even with her flaws I still find myself enjoying the scenes where Ranka appears, prior to her leaving though she was having a decent conversation with Alto. As for Brera, yeah she could have said something to stop him but at the same time he didn't beat him, the first time I believe he took him down in a hammerlock of some sort and the second time he just knocked the gun out of his hand. Still I never said she was perfect and that is not what I'm claiming, I'm just simply saying that maybe some of these flaws are blown up just a tad. Yes her actions are questionable but in the end, things were resolved.

Hopefully in the movie they do something to revive Ranka because I still have faith in her character and besides, Megumi Nakajima conveys that characters feelings so well. Megumi's singing is also another strong point that has labeled her an important character in the series at least in my opinion.
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Old 2008-12-13, 02:17   Link #902
Natsuki Hyuga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Like you said, there was plenty wrong with her character within the series and there it's really a large part due to the rushed development of other characters (mostly Sheryl) and even the episode count that was finalized.
Ranka's character development is botched not because of "rushed" development of other character nor the amount of episodes of Macross F. It is simply Kawamori's mistake (which he admitted in an interview) in which he developed Ranka to revolve her world only around Alto.

For your information, she got the most screentime AND focus out of all characters possible. However, most of them doesn't consist of her development, and after she got her development, she regressed because of how Kawamori want her to be "naive".

Her character is a good archetype for development, however, one (or ten amount of episodes in this case) wrong step of stalled development and you will know how wrong it is.
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Old 2008-12-13, 03:27   Link #903
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Eh, I'll just wait for the movie to see if Kawamori really does something wonderful in Ranka's character development. Didn't Kawamori say that Ranka's character could've been polished better since he did get some complaints. If he didn't get some, I'm going to be one of them.
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Old 2008-12-13, 03:42   Link #904
Tak
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Originally Posted by Mei19 View Post
Eh, I'll just wait for the movie to see if Kawamori really does something wonderful in Ranka's character development. Didn't Kawamori say that Ranka's character could've been polished better since he did get some complaints. If he didn't get some, I'm going to be one of them.
That can certainly be arranged. I've got meself a speedboat and months worth of rations. Would you like to present your complaint personally to the big man himself? If so, do I have this honor of inviting you on a seafaring trip to Japan, where we shall spend quality time on the Pacific... ... ... ... ... alone?

- Tak ()
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Old 2008-12-13, 10:02   Link #905
Westlo
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Is this the start of a beautiful friendship? Will Tak dress up Mei in his Sheryl dress?
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Old 2008-12-13, 10:03   Link #906
forgottendiary
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Is this the start of a beautiful friendship? Will Tak dress up Mei in his Sheryl dress?
Tak/Mei19 is definitely canon!

*runs away*
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Old 2008-12-13, 10:06   Link #907
raile
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Hmm...I always knew there was something behind their heated argument. XD
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Old 2008-12-13, 10:12   Link #908
Westlo
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Originally Posted by raile View Post
Hmm...I always knew there was something behind their heated argument. XD
If you think their arguments are heated.. wait to you see their... well you know!
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Old 2008-12-13, 10:13   Link #909
Tak
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Will Tak dress up Mei in his Sheryl dress?
Hey! That was supposed to be a surprise!

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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
If you think their arguments are heated.. wait to you see their... well you know!
While DC plays in the background... then followed by Northern Cross...

- Tak
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Old 2008-12-13, 10:15   Link #910
Natsuki Hyuga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
That can certainly be arranged. I've got meself a speedboat and months worth of rations. Would you like to present your complaint personally to the big man himself? If so, do I have this honor of inviting you on a seafaring trip to Japan, where we shall spend quality time on the Pacific... ... ... ... ... alone?

- Tak ()
O__O

*Throws confettis* MY OTP BECOME CANON!!!!!! Tak, I await the good news after you get back from the cruising. Be happy!

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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Is this the start of a beautiful friendship? Will Tak dress up Mei in his Sheryl dress?
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Originally Posted by forgottendiary View Post
Tak/Mei19 is definitely canon!

*runs away*
We need to spread the happy news, now! Call Swampeh, informs cheesie, give message to Stray, Darial and any of our Skull Faerie comrades!
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Old 2008-12-13, 10:20   Link #911
raile
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Such a momentous event! And just in time for Christmas!

*pops a bottle of champagne for the couple*
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Old 2008-12-13, 10:37   Link #912
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Sorry, I do apologize for my inconsistencies. The biggest reason I was defensive was because I had just come from the "Romance" thread and I was still in that mode (so to speak.) As for the selfishness, I do agree that most of her actions were not taking Alto's feelings into consideration and that is one of, if not the biggest flaw in her character development (especially with Alto.) You're also correct that Ranka did say that she wanted to take Ai-kun back to his home planet, but it was later revealed that it wasn't her only intention. I wonder what would have happened if she did face her consequences? Honestly after the Vajra attack and seeing how the Vajra reacted, it's kind of hard for her to even sing for the fear that she would attract the Vajra again, at least that's how I see things.

Like you said, there was plenty wrong with her character within the series and there it's really a large part due to the rushed development of other characters (mostly Sheryl) and even the episode count that was finalized. Even with her flaws I still find myself enjoying the scenes where Ranka appears, prior to her leaving though she was having a decent conversation with Alto. As for Brera, yeah she could have said something to stop him but at the same time he didn't beat him, the first time I believe he took him down in a hammerlock of some sort and the second time he just knocked the gun out of his hand. Still I never said she was perfect and that is not what I'm claiming, I'm just simply saying that maybe some of these flaws are blown up just a tad. Yes her actions are questionable but in the end, things were resolved.

Hopefully in the movie they do something to revive Ranka because I still have faith in her character and besides, Megumi Nakajima conveys that characters feelings so well. Megumi's singing is also another strong point that has labeled her an important character in the series at least in my opinion.
That's alright

Do not blame the Ranka's bad development on other characters, especially since she got the most screen time out of all of them. Kawamori was focusing more on her character for the first 18 episodes, and yet nothing came out of it. Rather her Achilles heel was the love triangle that they tried to make. Her character was one that could not grow in that setting, also it was a waste of time, as the time they spent validating her as a candidate for the love triangle they could have been spent on her actual character. With Alto it seemed like just another to coddle her, just another person stunting her growth. In fact I was pissed when Ozma asked Alto to look after Ranka, because I believe that she should learn how to take care of herself, without the help of others. I hate the fact that she was coddled by everyone, She's 16 years old its time for her to grow up, make her own decisions in life, and receive the consequences of it. Its not the end that matters its the journey, and that journey was not a right one.

That being said I hope that in the Movie she spends more time with Sheryl and Klan Klan if only for their independence to rub off on her. Especially Sheryl who would let her make her own decisions.
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Old 2008-12-13, 10:43   Link #913
Westlo
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When you look at Ranka's development the amount of time she had shouldn't have been an issue period, Jomy and Keith from Towards the Terra got better development than Ranka in just their first arcs alone (4 eps both) than Ranka got through the this series.

They just messed up with Ranka and the movie should confirm that when she's reworked.
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Old 2008-12-13, 11:08   Link #914
raile
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
That's alright
Rather her Achilles heel was the love triangle that they tried to make. Her character was one that could not grow in that setting, also it was a waste of time, as the time they spent validating her as a candidate for the love triangle they could have been spent on her actual character.
Bingo!

I feel Kawamori made his biggest mistake right there. Episode 12+ felt like they were trying to put up a convincing chemistry between Ranka and Alto with her childish innocence in check...but failed, especially considering the fans' response to Sheryl who showed more chemistry with Alto in three minutes than Ranka could in the whole series, all the while getting better character development.
Ranka just wasn't working and people could feel it as they continued to watch Ranka-centric scenes (which has more than any of the other characters). Her character just felt so shallow, everything revolved around her and she relied on other people more than herself. To the point that she would base her decisions on others (Alto, Brera, etc.) In the end, much to most of the fandom's chagrin, she never grew up. If she did, it sure as hell didn't seem like she did.
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Old 2008-12-13, 19:18   Link #915
DeX-kun
Alto x Ranka :)
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
That's alright

Do not blame the Ranka's bad development on other characters, especially since she got the most screen time out of all of them. Kawamori was focusing more on her character for the first 18 episodes, and yet nothing came out of it. Rather her Achilles heel was the love triangle that they tried to make. Her character was one that could not grow in that setting, also it was a waste of time, as the time they spent validating her as a candidate for the love triangle they could have been spent on her actual character. With Alto it seemed like just another to coddle her, just another person stunting her growth. In fact I was pissed when Ozma asked Alto to look after Ranka, because I believe that she should learn how to take care of herself, without the help of others. I hate the fact that she was coddled by everyone, She's 16 years old its time for her to grow up, make her own decisions in life, and receive the consequences of it. Its not the end that matters its the journey, and that journey was not a right one.

That being said I hope that in the Movie she spends more time with Sheryl and Klan Klan if only for their independence to rub off on her. Especially Sheryl who would let her make her own decisions.
Yes now that I look at it that way, I believe that her rushed development wasn't really due to other characters but just Kawamori's bad decision making as to how he handled her character. I do have faith though that Kawamori is working on solidifying Ranka as we speak, because she was mostly his character. Although this doesn't have anything to do with the topic I would just like to make a comment that although Kawamori had a hand in creating Sheryl (unless I'm mistaken and someone else did,) Ohnogi that took over her development is the true genius behind Sheryl's character.

Now back on topic I would have to say that Ranka will be handled much better in the movie I believe, it seems to me that Kawamori does regret it (of course I'm not claiming that) and he is giving her another chance in whatever the next Macross Frontier projects are.
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Old 2008-12-13, 19:24   Link #916
DeX-kun
Alto x Ranka :)
 
 
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Originally Posted by raile View Post
Bingo!

I feel Kawamori made his biggest mistake right there. Episode 12+ felt like they were trying to put up a convincing chemistry between Ranka and Alto with her childish innocence in check...but failed, especially considering the fans' response to Sheryl who showed more chemistry with Alto in three minutes than Ranka could in the whole series, all the while getting better character development.
Just as I made this mistake, you made the same one as well. The topic of this thread is discussing Ranka's character and her development, none of us are really talking about the relationship between Alto and Sheryl, we're here to discuss Ranka's major flaws and find ways for her character to become better. He also never mentioned Sheryl, so please try to stay on topic in this thread.
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Old 2008-12-13, 20:52   Link #917
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Talking

No, we're not here to only answer those questions or give input on how to make Ranka's character better, at all. We're here to discuss her character, point.
Quote:
The purpose of this thread is to provide a place to discuss all things Ranka related.
The bolding is mine, but that statement can be found in the very first page of this thread. So, if an important point of the character revolves around her love life, it's a valid topic of discussion, here.
Please, don't try to dictate and assume for yourself what we can or can't talk about here. Please.
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Old 2008-12-13, 21:37   Link #918
wisteria233
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Yes now that I look at it that way, I believe that her rushed development wasn't really due to other characters but just Kawamori's bad decision making as to how he handled her character. I do have faith though that Kawamori is working on solidifying Ranka as we speak, because she was mostly his character. Although this doesn't have anything to do with the topic I would just like to make a comment that although Kawamori had a hand in creating Sheryl (unless I'm mistaken and someone else did,) Ohnogi that took over her development is the true genius behind Sheryl's character.

Now back on topic I would have to say that Ranka will be handled much better in the movie I believe, it seems to me that Kawamori does regret it (of course I'm not claiming that) and he is giving her another chance in whatever the next Macross Frontier projects are.
Going by Kawamori's interviews he not only regrets it, but he's aware also of where and how he went wrong with her character. I'd say what he said in the interview but then I'd just be repeating myself. It really didn't help matters that Kawamori was comparing her to Minmei, and not the DYRL version either. Its like they took all of Minmei's negative traits and just dumped them on Ranka, it doesn't help matters that at least Minmei not only made her own decisions but was also aware of when she made bad decisions, and also faced the consequences of those decisions, the very thing that saved her character. Ranka however would let others make her decisions for her and was also not aware of when those decisions were wrong, and never faced the consequences of said decisions. I believe that in order to save her character she will need a total retooling from the bottom up. Like I said before her and Sheryl needed opposite things, which while it while Sheryl learned her lesson, Ranka did not.

Personally I believe that Macross Frontier would do better as an OAV than as a movie but that's just me.

P.S.- I'm female
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Old 2008-12-13, 21:46   Link #919
Tak
DIN = DAS IST NORM!
 
 
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Like I said before her and Sheryl needed opposite things, which while it while Sheryl learned her lesson, Ranka did not.
Yes, it is very true that while every major character in Frontier learned their lessons and sought to correct them, Ranka did not. That is one of the biggest problems I have with her character. When she initiates an action, there are consequences. While others heeded their responsibilities, Ranka was distributing them. I cannot say I found that to be fair.

Despite having said this countless times in the past, there are still others willing to somehow fabricate reasons to get her off the hook. Sorry, that simply won't do.

- Tak
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Old 2008-12-13, 22:25   Link #920
raile
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Just as I made this mistake, you made the same one as well. The topic of this thread is discussing Ranka's character and her development, none of us are really talking about the relationship between Alto and Sheryl, we're here to discuss Ranka's major flaws and find ways for her character to become better. He also never mentioned Sheryl, so please try to stay on topic in this thread.

Last time I checked, I was well within the boundaries of this thread. I merely elaborated on wisteria233's point on how the staff were more busy working on validating Ranka's participation in the love triangle than working on her character. Unfortunately, they could not get the chemistry right. In short, they failed which led to a double demise. On her chemistry with Alto and most especially her character development.

Jesus Ranka Lee did not cut it.
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