Fate/Zero - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by biodude711

1) Kiritsugu couldn't harm Kayneth because the contract said that only Kiritsugu couldn't harm him.
2) Maya, on the other hand, wasn't mentioned anywhere on the contract and therefore can act freely.
3) Maya kills Kayneth and company on orders from Kiritsugu.
So, in summary, Kiritsugu never violated the contract.

At least, that's my interpretation of what happened.

Even if Kiritsugu didn't order her to do, Maya would definitely take that course of action regardless, since she is basically his tool and she exactly knows Kiritsugu's methods and objective.
Therefore, even if Kiritsugu added a line meaning "no ploy done by kiritsugu can be set on motion", Maya would definitely act independantly and kill Kayneth the very moment Lancer is killed.

[Kusa-San]

Originally Posted by Broskander

What a downgrade Shirou was.

So much of a downgrade that Shirou did what Kiritsugu was not able to do

And great episode ! This second season is much better than the first one ! I feel sorry for Lancer but I'm also glad because I didn't like all these LancerXSaber piaring on pixiv and all. And yes, Kiritsugu is indeed cruel even if I understand his point of view.

[Broskander]

Originally Posted by Kusa-San

So much of a downgrade that Shirou did what Kiritsugu was not able to do

Shirou is a lousy master.

[jeroz]

Welcome to the Bad Ending Lancer.

Now compare it with the one Caster received, Luck E sure is brutal.

[Broskander]

Originally Posted by jeroz

Welcome to the Bad Ending Lancer.

Now compare it with the one Caster received, Luck E sure is brutal.

Agreed. poor Lancer =\

[Trogdor Jube]

Lancer's last words were pretty intense, I was expecting some honourable death by the hands of Saber and some speech about chivalry and all that.
But then THIS shit happens. Throughout the course of this entire show NOTHING has gone good for Kayneth, got his initial artifact stolen, his fiancée fell in love with his servant, got crippled, fiancée got kidnapped, had to kill his own servant to save his fiancée and himself only to get shot to death and see his fiancée die in front of him.
Being Luck E is suffering.


Kiritsugu is one bad mother.

[DragoZERO]

Holy shiiiiit!!! So many shocks this episode. Fantastic, so great. So great!! I didn't expect everyone to start dying so quickly, not complaining, just saying.

I thought for sure Kayneth and Sola were going to go home but then bang! I let my guard down. Kayneth and Sola's last moments were despair too... talk about brutal. It's like they say... being Lancer is suffering.

I love how there is no more Invisible Air, Excalibur is too cool to be sealed away.

Oh, next episode... I might cry.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Trogdor Jube

Lancer's last words were pretty intense, I was expecting some honourable death by the hands of Saber and some speech about chivalry and all that.
But then THIS shit happens. Throughout the course of this entire show NOTHING has gone good for Kayneth, got his initial artifact stolen, his fiancée fell in love with his servant, got crippled, fiancée got kidnapped, had to kill his own servant to save his fiancée and himself only to get shot to death and see his fiancée die in front of him.
Being Luck E is suffering.


Kiritsugu is one bad mother.

that is becuase you forgot who wrote the novel, Urobuchi Gen aka Butcher Gen.

[D2]

It's a war, so Kiritsugu's actions were technically allowed, but still cheap and a good reminder of how he isn't exactly a good person. I'm glad Saber and Iri were angry over his tactics, shows the war isn't totally derived of people who won't feel any remorse over doing anything to win.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by D2

It's a war, so Kiritsugu's actions were technically allowed, but still cheap and a good reminder of how he isn't exactly a good person. I'm glad Saber and Iri were angry over his tactics, shows the war isn't totally derived of people who won't feel any remorse over doing anything to win.

you guys admit this is a war but whats up the "cheap" crap. in a war, there is the Winners and there is the dead. There is no such things as "cheap" in a war.

[ApathyEcstasy]

That arrogant mage got OWNED. To those of you who felt sympathy for him, recall that he didn't hesitate to kill in cold blood in order to prevent command spells from being granted to other competitors. This is just dog eats dog. I can't wait to see how Tokiomi gets raped. I hope it will be Kiritsugu's handiwork.

War is hell. Kayneth wasn't thinking clearly about who is or isn't his enemy, because he was blinded by his attachment to Sola-Ui. His fate was sealed the moment she was taken from him.

Out of all the masters, the only ones that don't deserve to be tricked, back-stabbed, or killed, are Waver and Kariya. The rest are all monsters that deserve their horrible fates. Kiritsugu is just the most monstrous of the monsters. Why? Because he has no illusions about what they are all, and what he is. Meanwhile, the others are wrapping themselves in warm and comfortable delusions: honor, pride, ambition, and pleasure.

Kiritsugu is, by far, the greatest realist. Kirei is also a realist, but unlike Kiritsugu (who has already found himself), Kirei in the process of soul searching. And we're getting a dark glimpse of the kinds of things he finds.

[HandofFate]

lol Sola got destroyed. XD. I hated her, so I was happy.
Felt bad for Kayneth though, he was kind of an arrogant jerk, but the whole war was torture for him and bad things kept happening to him over and over.

Also Lancer, dang, his eyes going all demonic and crazy scared me. Loved how he cursed everyone there.

Poor Lancers...

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy

That arrogant mage got OWNED. To those of you who felt sympathy for him, recall that he didn't hesitate to kill in cold blood in order to prevent command spells from being granted to other competitors. This is just dog eats dog. I can't wait to see how Tokiomi gets raped. I hope it will be Kiritsugu's handiwork.

Anyone can garner sympathy in my book. Kayneth wasn't some 1 dimensional evil prick, he was a man blinded by his pride, but a man nonetheless with feelings for Sola. So yeah seeing someones pure emotions torn and destroyed in such a way made me feel sympathetic.

In fact I felt bad for almost everyone in this episode, lol. Everyone seemed to get screwed in one way or another.

I find it funny that psychopaths like Caster and his master felt fullfillment with their deaths while in this episode it was nothing but anger and suffering. Damn was Lancer pissed.

[Wigwams]

kayneth is definitely someone who holds love above alot of other things. but that doesnt make him a good man. dont forget the first few mins of the episode. he killed the old priest.

[kk2extreme]

At least Caster got to see Jeane and die a happy man...

[fertygo]

Damn, that's one of the best use of anti-climax that I ever seen.. wow.

[j0x]

bye Lancer, looks like you can become a berserker class servant on your next holy grail summon

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy

That arrogant mage got OWNED. To those of you who felt sympathy for him, recall that he didn't hesitate to kill in cold blood in order to prevent command spells from being granted to other competitors. This is just dog eats dog. I can't wait to see how Tokiomi gets raped. I hope it will be Kiritsugu's handiwork.

You'd think that if the Priest/Church was acting as the referee to ensure everyone followed the rules they'd at least be properly equipped or prepared.

I mean what's stopping the masters from turning against the referee to begin with? Just like Caster it seems to be more of an honor thing.

[LunarMoon]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

You'd think that if the Priest/Church was acting as the referee to ensure everyone followed the rules they'd at least be properly equipped or prepared.

I mean what's stopping the masters from turning against the referee to begin with? Just like Caster it seems to be more of an honor thing.

It'd be a suicidal action. Kill one of the referrees and the Church will send someone like Kotomine after you.

[Masane]

Geez, Lancer and Saber both got so shity masters ... though I felt kinda bad for Archibald ... I might even like him more than Kiritsugu after this episode (still under very low ) ... well typical Luck E Lancer ... sucks ... might even like the scene where Kiritsugu falls...
(yeah, created account just to say this )

‎''Aaaaarrrghhh ... You want to ... you want to win so desperately ?
You desire the Grail so desperately ?
You have crushed ... you have crushed my sole remaining wish...
and you ! ... You feel no shame at all ?!
I will never forgive you .
I will never forgive you for this !
Inhuman monsters, who have ruined the honor of a knight,
let my blood taint your dreams !
Let the Grail be crushed !
Let the wish it grants bring disaster !
And when you fall into the pits of hell,
remember the rage of Diarmuid !!!''