2012-05-27, 04:00 | Link #401 |
~Night of Gales~
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Honestly, with the endings of F/SN, I thought that it was really less about 'who you saved in that route', but rather 'how Shirou's future will be shaped from the ending of each route.'
I mean, for all of Fate route's optimism... Illya's death is impending, Rin is likely to part ways with Shirou after their graduation and Shirou... he'll almost definitely walk a very lonely and painful path towards becoming the 'Hero of Justice' he dreams to be.
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2012-05-27, 04:41 | Link #402 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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...Actually, one of the TD mentions that Saber can only be saved in Fate route? It's in the one you have to kill her in HF. Parallel worlds. Some she was saved, some she wasn't (Archer failed to save Saber apparently? He also expected her to be a Counter Guardian in Heaven's Feel).
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2012-05-27, 11:11 | Link #403 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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I don't know, the True UBW ending seemed to indicate that Saber had accepted her fate just like she did in the Fate route. She seemed to have accepted it while watching Shirou and Archer battle. Plus once she no longer coveted the Grail, her contract with the world was voided.
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2012-05-27, 12:06 | Link #404 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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And I figured the reason Rin didn't take the chance was because she was naive enough to take Kotomine's word for it simply because he said he used his entire Magic Crest, which is practically worse than death for some magus.
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2012-05-27, 12:34 | Link #405 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I suppose it's natural people would want Heaven's Feel to be animated the most though, since it's the only one which has received no adaptation whatsoever, but personally I hardly consider that terrible excuse for a film to be deserving of the UBW name and would be rather frustrated if HF received a proper adaptation from ufotable, while UBW would have to remain in limbo with nothing to show for it but that travesty of an adaptation by DEEN. |
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2012-05-27, 13:07 | Link #406 | |||
Mad Scientist #0000
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Apparently, Kirei beat True Assassin with merely his own abilities. Abilities that were canonically stated to be inferior to his younger self in Fate/Zero. Quote:
She may experience happy life for a year but that's all. I suppose Illya's "salvation" was in HF where she managed to sort out her feelings about Kiritsugu and accepted her role happily to save Shirou. Quote:
According to the explanation that Rin gave about Heroic Spirits, they exist in countless points of time in countless alternate worlds at once. It isn't the issue about the Servants suffering amnesia. Instead it's the fact they had already experienced the Grail War and everything else they did on their countless summonings. At once. As such the information is simply too much to remember the "fine details". So you could say Archer was already saved way before UBW has began. Shirou just had to remind him of that fact. Although I suppose it still means Archer would eventually "forget" this right after his next summoning. |
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2012-05-27, 14:13 | Link #407 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I refuse to believe that everything Archer went through in the UBW route just up and vanished into thin air at the end of it. That's the single most depressing thought in all of Fate. His duel with Shirou and his realization upon seeing his younger self's resolve was the validation of a lifetime of suffering. That's no minor detail to be forgotten. It meant everything to him and it made him believe in the value of his existence once more. So even if he will almost definitely forget the vast majority of what transpired in that Holy Grail War, I like to believe that that visceral feeling of "I wasn't wrong." will stay with him in some way. GARcher deserves that much, thank you.
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2012-05-27, 14:16 | Link #408 | |
King of Heroes
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 38
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I wanted to believe that too, but... Yeah. But I think it also makes his ending more poignant. He knows that it's all going to slip through his fingers -- yet again -- but he takes it like a champ and goes out with a smile, happy that he managed to even grasp that one sliver of meaning and happiness. It is true that they retain all their memories, though... it was described as a giant library, where Archer just sits around reading the books as they endlessly come in. I don't think it has the same punch that way for him though. Imagine if you were all torn up over your mother's death or something. Then you read a book from the future and it says, "You get over it eventually." That doesn't really do anything for you does it. :P |
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2012-05-27, 14:27 | Link #411 | |
Kana Hanazawa ♥
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 37
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I feel HF would be more satisfying on all accounts, since it resolves Sakura, Zouken, Illya and Kirei's stories. All of them are more fleshed out in this route than in any other. Furthermore, I don't think the choice Shirou makes in this route is such a tragedy for Kiritsugu. He manages to do what his father never could: choose love over his ideals and put the life of one person above others'. I believe Kiritsugu would be happy his son "escaped" the fate he inadvertently imposed on him. Simply knowing Shirou won't become the same miserable person Kiri was is enough to relieve him. Having Shirou stick to his ideals and become Kiritsugu 2.0 (like in that bad end) would be a far greater tragedy. The main downside to HF I can see is that Saber gets a horrible end in it. But that in itself would fit Fate/Zero's mood.
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2012-05-27, 14:40 | Link #412 |
Crax
Author
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: MY
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A Counter Guardian can exist in all time axis, but their 'memories' accumulate just like any other human. They don't always know all of their memories or knowledge.
Before UBW, you could say that Archer was in a state of despair. He continued to fulfill his ideals faithfully but his heart was dead. After UBW he would still be a Counter Guardian that is doomed to fight forever - hence the meaning 'that you will not be saved' by Rin - but it is mentioned that the original Archer - the one removed from the time axis to exist at all time - felt a sudden calmness and was no longer plagued by his despair, even though he could not explain or remember why.
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2012-05-27, 15:48 | Link #413 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Basically I just don't want UBW to be the only route not to get a proper series, since it is my favorite route. Sure, the Fate TV series was nothing to write home about either, but at least it wasn't rushed to hell and back like the UBW movie. So if by some chance ufotable are indeed able to produce F/SN anime in the future, I hope they'll consider doing their proper version of UBW as well, after that long awaited animated HF or not. |
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2012-05-27, 16:48 | Link #415 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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When Nasu's asked about Saber's fate in the Fate route, he specifically says she's in Avalon. Not in the others.
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2012-05-27, 17:47 | Link #417 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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In the Fate route, she falls asleep then she's taken to Avalon. She never really dies (as RN version... of course).
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2012-05-28, 07:52 | Link #418 | |||||||||
Licensed Hunter-a-holic
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35
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About a HF adaptation, I honestly would like to see it in an OVA format. I think that's really the best way for it to be told in an animated form. Not a series (too many episodes) and absolutely not a film (God no!). It would give it amble time to flech out and tell all the important parts of the route without rushing it all to hell or dragging etc.
As for the best route that best fits as a conclusion to Fate/Zero ... honestly there is none. Not a single one of these routes gives a good ending to all the plot lines and threads introduced in the prequel (which makes sense, since it is a multi-route game and Fate/Zero was written after it was made). If I look at it, the entire game of Fate/Stay Night works as a conclusion to Fate/Zero, as it should be, since you can't take one route and run with it in this game, each one of them is needed to get the full story (which harms it more than it does much good IMO, but what can you do) I think it speaks volumes about how great Zero is since it manages to complement in in many cases, improve on the entire experience with the series, as well as build upon Saber's character and the size and stakes involved in this conflict, and give so much meaning to events that might have not had such significance before. Makes me sort of wish Zero came out first and then Stay Night, then the writing might have been better and we could have had a single route that tied up everything nicely, or at least each story didn't have to be so dependent on the others. Quote:
In Fate, him saving Saber helped him get over his past and go on to be a hero (and even if he does have a long and hard path ahead, he apparently went to meet her in Avalon, so he must have done something right along that way to reach there ) In UBW, he gains Rin as an ally so he wont lose his path and become like his father or his possible future self, saves Saber (and wants to meet her again) and despite realizing he is going on an endless journey where he might never, and probably will never, reach the utopia he's aiming towards but accepts that since the point isn't that he's trying to protect his ideal like EMYIA had done, but he is following that ideal to protect others and it's worth going through with it. In HF, he saves Sakura because she is the person he loves and she is being literally used by evil incarnate, and he could never stand back and watch her being swallowed and punished for something she had no power to stop. It's the same with him going ahead and saving Illya (hence the 3 choices you get when she tells you to leave ) What the people Shirou save do is that they give him a more personal connection to his ideal, so he is no longer just a broken pre-programmed ''machine'' like how his father was, but a person who is had been shaped and determined enough to care on with what he decided in the war for the rest of his life. It gave him more meaning than a simple borrowed dream. Quote:
Which of course lead to him trying to possess Sakura, who was under further pressure thanks to being the fake grail, leading her to fall and go to the hospital ... Quote:
By the end of Fate, Illya is living happily and without much worry (other than her having a year to live, and even that sounds like she has something to avert it) and is acting like a sister to Shioru, as will as fulfilling her mother's dream of her coming over to Japan and seeing the outside world as a human girl. There isn't more to be saved since there isn't anything else to be saved, Illya's time with Shirou and Saber in Fate made her realise she wanted to be with him. Quote:
The moment where she realised that it was looking into a mirror when she realised who Archer really was is still one of my favorite moments in the game Actually... at 1:22 Quote:
I love this guy. Quote:
Hassan the King of Assassins must be rolling in his grave ... (Man, even the Fake Assassin summoned by caster was an even match with Saber on a one-on-one sword duel (and she even admitted she was afraid of him!) and the True Assassin just ends up being trashed by everyone, even a human lol) Quote:
In anycase, she ends up being saved and becomes more than simply a Lesser Grail like she was taught she was. Honestly? When it comes to this game and the Type-Moon verse ... no I am never sure Quote:
King Arthur never had Avalon with him in his final moments. This is one of these things the game had hammered into our heads countless times: The Grail can not change the past, and has no power to do so. Even if Saber did win, she couldn't have her wish granted even with an pure Grail Quote:
In any case, Saber will always die, and will always go to Avalon, regardless of what route or reality it is ... unless we are talking about a reality in which King Arthur never existed.
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2012-05-28, 18:10 | Link #420 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
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Archer will just have a "copy" of the record of the War with him in the throne, but without the revelation he experienced as a Servant. No matter how you love for it to happen, he will not be saved. He even stated it himself: Quote:
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