Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Archived Discussion

[pampz21]

Originally Posted by kusabireika

How about Saegusa Twins x Tatsuya

On-topic: what volume will be cover in the anime I hope it's ok to ask and how many ? I hope 24

Its already confirmed that we'll get 26 episode; a good adaption will be 1-7; a bad adaption is if they compile 1-11(first year arc)

Originally Posted by anime fan99

the ship in your Signature look good

You have good eyes my friend

[kusabireika]

Originally Posted by pampz21

Its already confirmed that we'll get 26 episode; a good adaption will be 1-7; a bad adaption is if they compile 1-11(first year arc)

Okay thank you I am super excited on this anime, I hope they do well and uhm I hope miki va is good

That's all ty

[Galacticichi]

Mayumi x Kazama

Fujibayashi x Tatsuya

Katsuto x Saegusa Twins

Toshikazu x Azusa

[anime fan99]

Originally Posted by Galacticichi

Mayumi x Kazama

Fujibayashi x Tatsuya

Katsuto x Saegusa Twins

Toshikazu x Azusa

:eyes pin:

Put some pictures people, at least I can judge if they look good together or not

[Verisimilitude]

Originally Posted by anime fan99

Put some pictures people, at least I can judge if they look good together or not

They're just trolling you, you know

[anime fan99]

Originally Posted by Verisimilitude

They're just trolling you, you know

trolling With pictures will be more fun

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by anime fan99

Put some pictures people, at least I can judge if they look good together or not

Aren't you paying too much importance to this? Shipping is good but it is more of an action series, I doubt there are people reading this series "mainly" to see Tatsuya with someone.

If you want pictures you just need to see the cover of vol 05 .

[anime fan99]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

Aren't you paying too much importance to this? Shipping is good but it is more of an action series, I doubt there are people reading this series "mainly" to see Tatsuya with someone.

If you want pictures you just need to see the cover of vol 05 .

I can not talk on other things before watching episode 1 You need to see the action first before talking about it

[XFire]

Originally Posted by anime fan99

so how the Relationships in this

That is literally the biggest land mine in this thread.

That said, MayumiXTatsuya all the way.

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by Ultragunner

wait wait wait, how is that even possible? I mean, seriously? Bella is a Mary Sue? Now I don't understand this term at all!!

Exactly. NO ONE has a concrete definition of what a Sue is. That's why I'm of the opinion that the term Mary Sue needs to die. And this isn't just because I'm part of the Mahouka fandom--I've had issues with the term even during my highschool days. At first, I thought it was a neat little term used to describe a specific kind of character. I knew what a Mary Sue was. And I used it when I thought appropriate. However; in time there came to be Canon Sues, and Villain Sues, and Godlike Sues, and Anti-Sues...all which are apparently subtypes of Sues. The term has grown so broad that it could be used to describe almost anyone. And when the term could mean almost anything....then its useless.

I agree with what anonfr said that people should be allowed to use the term however they wish since according to him Tatsuya and Miyuki do fit one definition of the term Sue. And? I'm inclined to agree. If the term has indeed evolved to mean impossibly competent character, then by all means use the term. They'll get no heat from me. Because the term would now be correct.

Unfortunately, I don't think other people see the term like that, and for me, it's difficult to shake the definition(and negative connotations of the term) I'm familiar with: Mary Sues are annoying, badly-written characters usually found in fanfiction and normally used to live out some self-insert, power fantasy by their author. For me, the primary reason Sues are so irritating to read about was not because they were ultrapowerful but because they were totally unbelievable (on the count of being horribly written) and shamefully narcissistic(on the count of usually being self-insert fantasies done by amateur writers with limited life perspective). However; even my definition is put into question by other people. Because when you think about the elements that I think make up a Mary Sue aren't bad in and off themselves...

Let's look at the being "super powerful and ideal" element.

Being powerful is supposed to be another character trait, after all we read stories about heroes and gods, and from what I know about literature stories were supposed to be about extraordinary people. Arsene Lupin always won but he did it with such flair and panache people can't help but love him. The same reason we love Tatsuya: he always wins, but we accept it because one, what he does is justified by context, and two he does it with style. Hercules always won, and was established to be impossible to kill. But thousands of years later we still love hearing about the insanity of what he pulled off.

These guys always won, always had things go their way, and never got killed, but I don't think anyone will accuse them of being Sues. Also, there are real life people who have been known to pull of "unrealistic" awesome crap. Just look at historical badasses. You begin to suspect half of them were under some kind of divine protection.

Like Sues. Only they're real. And they're awesome. So being powerful shouldn't be a problem because everything depends on the execution. Being a character that embodies certain ideals (physical or abstract) shouldn't be a problem--because everything depends on the execution.


Now let's look at the other element: being self-insert characters.

This is something no one can accuse Tatsuya of being without me looking at them with contempt. His character is unique and twisted, and we know he's heavily based on Shiva (to an almost ridiculous degree), so I don't think the author drew much from himself when writing him--if ever. And from his afterwords and tweets, the only impression I got of Tsutomu-sensei was a normal guy who wanted to write an interesting story and was a little self-conscious about the style he used.

However; even assuming he was a self-insert character, is that really such a bad thing? If we get invested in that character's struggles, his relationships, the things he learns along his journey, does it really matter if he was based on the author? Or if you take self-insert character as a character who serves as a blank slate the reader can live vicariously through, if the story makes you experience the same sensation the character did, does that make it a bad story? No, because everything is about execution, and sometimes these self-insert characters can create a deeper connection with the reader because they're usually much more sympathetic than reading about someone awesome.

Now about them always being loved and adored and being right?

We have Messiah characters. Characters whose entire life is used to illustrate an ideal. And sometimes these characters can inspire some pretty profound emotions in their readers. Their being idealized is the point. Take Galahad for another example: he's purity made flesh. "Purity" is a common trait associated with Sues.

But we don't bitch about Galahad. Because his character makes sense in the context of the story he's in and like a lot of things it's all about the execution. There are also a lot of goddesses who, as representations of everything desirable, everyone of course loves.

It's ALL about the execution.

So, if being powerful doesn't make one a Sue, if being a self-insert doesn't make one a Sue, and being beloved by everyone doesn't make one a Sue, what exactly is a Sue?

I once had this conversation with the FB writing group I'm part of...NO ONE had a clear answer. Nearly everyone had a different opinion about what defines a Sue--Is it a character who knows almost everything? We have Sage characters. Is it someone who's absurdly powerful? We have god characters and superheroes. Is it someone who's never wrong? We have Messiahs. Is it seemingly ordinary characters thrust into unrealistic circumstances? We have everyman heroes for whom that is the entire point of you reading about them.

In the end, we all just agreed that it was mostly a gut thing. You just know a Sue when you see it. And it all mostly stems from bad writing. So in the end Sues are simply characters that are badly written? So why not just call them badly written characters? Bella Swan, Eragon, and countless other OC's from various fanfics...I called Sues. However; some people have also accused Jon Snow and Daenaerys Targaryen of being Sues, some have accused Tyrion Lannister of being a Sue, some have even accused Luke Skywalker of being a Sue.

The reason? Because neither I, nor anyone else, can agree on what exactly is a Sue.


Now, for something else...one of the reasons I dislike it when people throw the Sue accusation so liberally is because of the implications it makes. It's like they're saying that "good writing" means that the story has to be in a particular way, that you can't use certain ideas because they are inherently "terrible", that characters must be so and so and so on, and that you can't do this or that because? Reasons.

What they don't seem to realize is that no trope, no idea, no archetype is bad in and off itself. It's all about the execution. There is no one "right" way in writing. It doesn't matter what the idea is: you just need to pull it off. PULL IT OFF. That's it.

But there are dumbshits that think otherwise...and I would really love to kick those guys in the shins. Because I find them extremely arrogant...They presume to know things about the craft when they probably haven't even typed a page of prose before. Their stupidity is also affecting budding writers from exploring more concepts...because they're terrified that their creations will be called Sues. They might be badly written, and feel "Sue-ish" but there's no way to know that until the work is read. Even if they create something horrible, I'm glad that they at least they explored the idea, and chances are one-out-of-ten someone is going to play an idea right. Or build something good or amazing out of the failures. But alas, the fear of the Sue label is very real. They feel constrained--afraid to give their characters certain traits that would have made them more interesting to read about. When did "good" stories suddenly mean stories about the common man who does common things? Not everyone sympathizes with losers. And sometimes I wonder how many awesome ideas did this fear effectively abort before they had a time to mature in their creator's mind? All because the writers were afraid of what a few dumbasses had to say? I'm genuinely horrified...I, or someone else, could had some fun. More things to have fun with is always better than less. I've always been a lover of ideas, especially new ones...for Mahouka's case, the idea was overpowered done right. I love what it did with that. I also love the they used a god rarely used for reference and inspiration in modern media...and in such a wonderful manner too. Mahouka has flaws: the infodumping could have been better, Miyuki's unparalleled beauty expressed more subtly, and of course not everyone is going to sympathize with a man who is virtually a god made flesh...However; it also did A LOT of things right. And even those flaws I mentioned are subjective.

[Vocah]

Originally Posted by pampz21

Its already confirmed that we'll get 26 episode; a good adaption will be 1-7; a bad adaption is if they compile 1-11(first year arc)

I disagree. A good adaption will be 1-4 and maybe 5.

[HypeDemolition]

Originally Posted by Vocah

I disagree. A good adaption will be 1-4 and maybe 5.

I think stretching those over 26 episodes would be a bit too slow. When I first found the novel it took me a while to start enjoying it because I felt the introduction arc was dull until the whole blanche thing started to finally take off. Nine Schools arc was great and got me hooked but I don't think stretching the two arcs over 26 eps would be good for newcomers.

[Vocah]

but 7 would be too much :x

I enjoyed Sword Art Online and Log Horizon... and both of them fall under the 1-4(5) mark

[HypeDemolition]

Originally Posted by Vocah

but 7 would be too much :x

I enjoyed Sword Art Online and Log Horizon... and both of them fall under the 1-4(5) mark

I enjoyed the first half of Sword Art's first season, couldn't really enjoy it when it took romance as its main focus since that's not what I wanted to see. Haven't read the novels but Sword Art jumped into action pretty quick whereas Mahouka's introduction arc took a while for a real confrontation and even that ended pretty quick. A lot of Mahouka is info dump which i doubt the anime is going to keep much of so I just don't think there's enough real content in the first 4 for all 26 episodes, I could be wrong though we'll have to wait and see lol.

[Ultraviolet X]

I can't beleive im quoting this post so early.

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet X

Mary-Sue: A female fanfiction character who is so perfect as to be annoying. The male equivlalent is the Marty-Stu. Often abbreviated to "Sue". A Mary Sue character is usually written by a beginning author. Often, the Mary Sue is a self-insert with a few "improvements" (ex. better body, more popular, etc). The Mary Sue character is almost always beautiful, smart, etc... In short, she is the "perfect" girl. The Mary Sue usually falls in love with the author's favorite character(s) and winds up upstaging all of the other characters in the book/series/universe.

To clarify the definition, its basically a character who is completely unrealistic in the fictional world there written/seen in. They tend to be perfect in every way, completely flawless, or have tiny flaws that can't really be spotted. They tend to breeze through any obstacle effortlessly.

Ive checked a few sites for the definition, and it does not change. Its simply the interpretation of other people that does. The things that vary depending on the show/book is this part.

- A character who is unrealistic in the fictional world there in.

Read the part where I clarifyed the definition, i tried to make it as simple as possible. Tatsuya has no chance of fitting it. Miyuki on the other hand, is actually debatable. And yes, Bella from twilight does fit, its more obvious after she becomes a vampire.

[Ultragunner]

Originally Posted by Vocah

but 7 would be too much :x

I enjoyed Sword Art Online and Log Horizon... and both of them fall under the 1-4(5) mark

In truth, it's actually only 6 vols (1-4 and 6-7). vol 5 can be entirely disregarded or has only 1-2 chapters adapted like the student council election (highly recommended ) or the beach one (though one can say it's for fanservice but it also gives us insight about Tatsuya's metality)

P.S: @Lucarion: you're truly the voice of rational reasoning, period

[BW95]

Originally Posted by Ultragunner

In truth, it's actually only 6 vols (1-4 and 6-7). vol 5 can be entirely disregarded or has only 1-2 chapters adapted like the student council election (highly recommended ) or the beach one (though one can say it's for fanservice but it also gives us insight about Tatsuya's metality)

P.S: @Lucarion: you're truly the voice of rational reasoning, period

They'll definitely do the beach story. Fan service aside, there was an anime visual showing Tatsya wearing only his coat so his torture scars were visible.

[Verisimilitude]

You know, looking back on the the shipping wars make think about how romance and relationships work in Mahouka. Of course, past the constant shipping, there's very few steady couples/relationship in Mahouka. But what I've noticed is that there's always a pairing between characters when in comes to their mini-arcs and development. It doesn't have to be romantic (though it can be), but they're there.

Couples:
IsoriXKanon (Engaged,duh)
MikiXMizuki (pretty obvious as well)
HirakawaXTomitsukaxEimi (Technically that's a love triangle, but meh)
MariXNaotsugu (Obvious as well)

So, when it comes to steady couples, the novel makes it pretty obvious. But now we come to what I consider pairings:

ErikaXLeo ( That whole Yokohama side arc. )
MayumiXKatsuto ( Every side arc involving the 10MC that isn't from the Yotsuba's POV )
HonokaXShizuku ( Honoka's side arc of chasing Tatsuya almost every vol )
TatsuyaXMiyuki (Now, beford anyone complains, I'll just state since current it's a very one-sided romance, I see TatsuyaXMiyuki as waaaay more as a pairing, considering how their character development is interwined.)

Heck, even minor characters get these kind of pairings, such as ToshikazuXFujibayashi during V.5-6. As I said, they aren't neccessarily romantic; heck, they aren't even all between a guy and a girl. But I think that this is how Satou-sensei develops the characters: get a pair that shares similar skills/interests/social circles and develop an arc from there, which may converge or overlap with other. Now of course, many people use these in shipping, but I think these "pairings" I'm proposing extend further than that.

[Tom Bombadil]

I was watching a compilation of promotion ads for the new spring shows, and this caught my attention, mostly because how the Chinese audience mocked its world views and the absurdly stereotypical protagonist. Some claim that they will watch it purely for the flame wars between the viewers. Won't that be fun.

[Avaricia]

This thread might get locked if you keep talking about pointless things like what happened to HS DxD thread.