Japanese DVD Anime Pricing (How Does It Work?)

[DarkCntry]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Actually Tokyo has a cost of living about 20% higher than New York City, which is itself obviously one of the most expensive places to live in the US. Tokyo is the 4th most expensive city in the world in the study I cited. Exchange rate fluctuations have actually made Japan relatively cheaper recently because of the dollar's decline. Still Tokyo has traditionally had one of the highest costs-of-living of any city on the planet.

A more likely reason for the higher levels of disposable income among the otaku-crowd is that many young adults, particularly young men, are partially insulated from Japan's high housing costs by living with parents.

Well, when I mentioned cost of life, I wasn't actually aiming towards the living expenses, more so to the environmental differences that living in various areas of Japan are from that of places in the States, especially of equaling sizes. So maybe the use of cost of living wasn't a good vernacular usage and probably should've opted for the quality of life. Of course, even this usage isn't entirely accurate.

Basically what I am getting at is between cultural, environmental, financial, and sociological differences it somewhat shows to why R2J DVDs are higher priced.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Let me raise the demographic question again in this thread; usually I get ignored, but I'll try again.

Has what we generally call the "otaku" market shown signs of shrinkage as a result of the decline in Japanese birth rates? Do the anime studios show any signs of concern about the rapid aging of Japan's population in the years ahead and how that might affect their business models? Or is the expectation that habits learned in childhood and adolescence will carry forward into later life? From what I've read here and elsewhere, that hasn't happened historically. Otherwise we should have seen both growth in the total size of the anime market, and it's "graying" as well.

Well, the otaku market has definitely been shrinking, and I think they're well-aware of it, as it's reflected in the sorts of products they're bringing to market these days (lots of revival projects, capitalizing on current otaku trends while they're hot, etc.). But I don't recall ever reading anything where declining birthrates were cited as either a primary cause or concern; maybe it's simply unspoken. The big concern at the moment seems to be in how to transform viewers into customers, especailly leveraging the Internet (since there seems to be a realization that the new generation of customer isn't as tied to physical media as in the past, and that scares all media executives immensely). The other "answer" to the shrinking market problem was supposed to be overseas markets, and despite obvious setbacks, they're continue to work at leveraging that (with new experiments by Gonzo/GDH, Kadokawa, and Bandai Visual as examples).

The average otaku customer definitely has a "lifecycle" that peaks in the person's mid-twenties (high disposable income, low liabilities/responsibilities), and generally falls into decline after that. So I don't think the market would/could ever simply get "larger and greyer". There is a certain older segment of the market that's considered still "reachable" and they're the ones who they're targeting the various revival projects at. But given declining sales, they're generally targeting projects more narrowly at the current otaku bubble. Even with the declining birthrate, I'm not sure if actual interest/awareness of anime is shrinking -- if anything, you get the impression that interest is still very high. I think at the moment the primary focus is simply transforming that interest into sales of some sort (i.e. "monetizing"), no matter where that interest comes from. If they can figure that out (and leverage international markets), they can probably survive the demographic crunch.

(Again, those are just my observations. I'd be very curious to here some insider takes on this question.)

[mandarb916]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Has what we generally call the "otaku" market shown signs of shrinkage as a result of the decline in Japanese birth rates? Do the anime studios show any signs of concern about the rapid aging of Japan's population in the years ahead and how that might affect their business models? Or is the expectation that habits learned in childhood and adolescence will carry forward into later life? From what I've read here and elsewhere, that hasn't happened historically. Otherwise we should have seen both growth in the total size of the anime market, and it's "graying" as well.

Actually Tokyo has a cost of living about 20% higher than New York City, which is itself obviously one of the most expensive places to live in the US. Tokyo is the 4th most expensive city in the world in the study I cited. Exchange rate fluctuations have actually made Japan relatively cheaper recently because of the dollar's decline. Still Tokyo has traditionally had one of the highest costs-of-living of any city on the planet.

A more likely reason for the higher levels of disposable income among the otaku-crowd is that many young adults, particularly young men, are partially insulated from Japan's high housing costs by living with parents.

I'll try to retort as best as possible.

I can't comment too much about the current socioeconomic status in Japan when it comes to age groups. However, anime in its current form (not the mainstream ones like Anpanman, Sazaesan, Doraemon, etc) is a relatively new form of media...or rather, IP. From what I can see, I think studios realize that there will be an effect with a decreasing population and I can't help but wonder why media mixes are being pursued so aggressively nowadays compared to say...10 years ago. Anime is usually only part of a huge IP media mix which encompasses:
Anime (ie. DVD/Blu-ray)
DramaCDs
Soundtracks
Light novels (there have been a number of them from which the artwork has been changed to cater to a more "grown up" audience and have won prestigious writing awards in Japan)
Manga
Games
etc.

So while one media alone may not generate total revenue, they're simultaneously aiming for a very wide demographic...people put off by watching anime, can also read novels taking place in their respective IP universe, popular artists can boost awareness via music (Mizuki Nana's STARCAMP EP with Rosa+Vamp OP/ED i think was 2nd or 3rd on Oricon charts as the most recent one), manga targets yet another demographic (actually 2 sets) via their periodicals as well as the actual manga releases and games, yet another demographic. Add to this, they also have net-radio broadcasts for many shows for which I'm sure sponsors plunk down more money than it actually costs to produce and broadcast (usually 2 VA's from a series for ~1hr production).

So i think the significant increase in diversity you're seeing in recent years is to hit as wide a demographic as possible as efficiently as possible...so while each demographic might be decreasing in population slowly, the overall gain you get from hitting all the demographics I would THINK far outweigh this. Note though, this is just all conjecture so take it with a grain of salt :P

Tokyo's absolute living expenses are very high, but what most people fail to mention are living subsidies that a LOT of companies pay for. Partial to full coverage of housing (depending on family situation or lack thereof), full coverage of transportation costs (and insurance in some cases...though not car payments), national healthcare, etc. Also, the cost of living in smack dab in the center of tokyo is going to be expensive...most people don't live there...there's something that was called the "doughnut phenomenon" (ドーナッツ現象 no joke) where the middle of the city became very lowly populated as people moved to the outskirts of the commuting range to save on living costs. Moving as far as say...Yokohama, you can find a small apartment for around $400~500USD a month which only puts you at about an hour from the mecca of anime. On the Izu peninsula which is about 2hrs by train to Tokyo (about $120 roundtrip using the shinkansen) you can find rent as low as the $200-300/mo range which is still in commute distance to some place like Yokohama or Atami. So it's not too bad.

Also, kids living with their parents isn't something that's too frowned upon in Japan. In some cases, neighbors worry for parents when their children move out lol. Unlike in the US where the common thing to do is live alone or with immediate family (ie. wife and kids and a dog), there are a lot of extended families living together...though...admittedly living with parents and having a collection of anime figurines would be quite...creepy by US standards (as well as Japanese standards lol)

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Let me raise the demographic question again in this thread; usually I get ignored, but I'll try again.

Has what we generally call the "otaku" market shown signs of shrinkage as a result of the decline in Japanese birth rates? Do the anime studios show any signs of concern about the rapid aging of Japan's population in the years ahead and how that might affect their business models? Or is the expectation that habits learned in childhood and adolescence will carry forward into later life? From what I've read here and elsewhere, that hasn't happened historically. Otherwise we should have seen both growth in the total size of the anime market, and it's "graying" as well.

Yes, yes, yes. There are entire books published in Japan about that problem and the relationship to the anime industry. Go read some of the investment material like profit prediction for the publically traded companies on the Japanese stock markets like Toei animation. They specifically talk about the changing nature and shrinking size of the hardcore market. The problem isn't that they don't realize that change is needed, it's a combination of fear and an inflexible system that punishes risk that prevents them from adapting to it.

Actually Tokyo has a cost of living about 20% higher than New York City, which is itself obviously one of the most expensive places to live in the US. Tokyo is the 4th most expensive city in the world in the study I cited. Exchange rate fluctuations have actually made Japan relatively cheaper recently because of the dollar's decline. Still Tokyo has traditionally had one of the highest costs-of-living of any city on the planet.

A more likely reason for the higher levels of disposable income among the otaku-crowd is that many young adults, particularly young men, are partially insulated from Japan's high housing costs by living with parents.

Yes. That's a good point. However another aspect I can personally testify to is that the majority of that "cost of living" in tokyo comes from housing rates specficially. Apartments are really expensive. Food is comparatively cheap. Also there's no need to own a car. So basically, it's possible to spend all of your money on rent and Figurines . Tokyo's conveniences help to offset the cost of living and enables an Otaku lifestyle.

Personally, if I had a 25 year-old son living at home who is spending thousands of dollars a year on anime paraphernalia, I'd tell him to start spending that money on a place to live on his own.

You'd make a poor asian parent . Living with your parents for a long time (at least until you get married) is EXPECTED, not simply common. The only reason you'd move out is if your job is far away or when you get married (in which case if you are a woman you might move in with your husband's parents).

My advisor has 2 twin daughters, both 30 now, I think, both living at home still (both with full time jobs, too).

[petran79]

While Tokyo is expensive, other Japanese cities have cheaper costs of living, more in common with the rest of the industrialized urban areas. So I guess this allows for even more spending, also if you regard the higher income wages.

It would be interesting to have a report of the people who buy specifically anime DVDs (age group, gender, economic status, education etc)

There are many sociological researches made in Japan for this but since I dont know the language I cant comment further. Though they'd be very interesting.

[mandarb916]

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

Food is comparatively cheap.

heh...73yen croquette and tonkatsu sale at matsuzakaya between okachimachi and akiba...can get a pretty hearty bento for less than the price of a mcdonalds meal out in the states...actually, it might actually be cheaper to buy something on the way home from a depachika than to cook at home if you're single since a lot of food goes to waste if you actually do cook :P

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by mandarb916

heh...73yen croquette and tonkatsu sale at matsuzakaya between okachimachi and akiba...can get a pretty hearty bento for less than the price of a mcdonalds meal out in the states...actually, it might actually be cheaper to buy something on the way home from a depachika than to cook at home if you're single since a lot of food goes to waste if you actually do cook :P

On the street in front of my apartment are 3 bento places for lunch, and actually they are pretty pricey for these types of places (being located footsteps from the University of Tokyo), but you can get a full bento with a croquet of some sort for 350 yen ($3.25)...
The cafeteria at the university of tokyo has extremely cheap prices:
Ramen (a big bowl) 240 yen
combo meal (fried shrimp, hamburger patty, lettuce and a bowl of rice and miso soup) 350 yen
Curry rice (240 for small, 410 for large)
Mega-Plate (curry, rice, chicken katsu, hamburger patty, all on a giant plate): 460 yen

Heck, they even had a maguro-bowl (tuna sashimi with nori on rice) for 400 yen for a limited time. Ordering that in the states would cost you $10, minimum.

But the best deal is:
Miso soup: 20 yen. Yes, that's not a typo.

[Kyuusai]

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

You'd make a poor asian parent . Living with your parents for a long time (at least until you get married) is EXPECTED, not simply common. The only reason you'd move out is if your job is far away or when you get married (in which case if you are a woman you might move in with your husband's parents).

My advisor has 2 twin daughters, both 30 now, I think, both living at home still (both with full time jobs, too).

I don't think it was the "still living at home" part that's necessarily objectionable.

I'm a working professional who's still living at home in the USA without shame, because I prefer to live with my family and help out... but I don't treat my income as entirely disposable. That's the key difference for many. (Many, not all of course. You're absolutely right that much of the Western world expects kids to move out as adults.)

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

On the street in front of my apartment are 3 bento places for lunch, and actually they are pretty pricey for these types of places (being located footsteps from the University of Tokyo), but you can get a full bento with a croquet of some sort for 350 yen ($3.25)...
The cafeteria at the university of tokyo has extremely cheap prices:
Ramen (a big bowl) 240 yen
combo meal (fried shrimp, hamburger patty, lettuce and a bowl of rice and miso soup) 350 yen
Curry rice (240 for small, 410 for large)
Mega-Plate (curry, rice, chicken katsu, hamburger patty, all on a giant plate): 460 yen

Heck, they even had a maguro-bowl (tuna sashimi with nori on rice) for 400 yen for a limited time. Ordering that in the states would cost you $10, minimum.

But the best deal is:
Miso soup: 20 yen. Yes, that's not a typo.

Thank you. Now I'm hungry, not to mention jealous. I can hardly get a can of soup for those prices these days.

[mandarb916]

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

But the best deal is:
Miso soup: 20 yen. Yes, that's not a typo.

a lot of places serve miso soup for free :P

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by mandarb916

a lot of places serve miso soup for free :P

It's not free when it only comes WITH a purchase of something else. You can't just go up to a restarant, sit down, drink your soup and leave. That'd be like going to a Don Pablo's, ordering 2 glasses of water, and eating all the free chips and salsa they give you and then leaving.

[mandarb916]

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

It's not free when it only comes WITH a purchase of something else. You can't just go up to a restarant, sit down, drink your soup and leave. That'd be like going to a Don Pablo's, ordering 2 glasses of water, and eating all the free chips and salsa they give you and then leaving.

a lot of the open air fish markets in japan have free miso if i recall properly (i think tsukiji has one as well). in particular, a LOT of port towns have free miso soup with dashi from local varietal seafood. Wajima on Noto Peninsula, Hachinohe in Aomori, all along Izu peninsula in Shizuoka for those that are rather far. A relative also mentioned a small fish/farmer's market in Kameari also has free miso soup. You just need to look for them in metropolitan areas...obviously it's alot easier to find them as you get farther from the city lol.

If you hunt around, you can get away without paying for breakfast or lunch all along the izu peninsula which is something I did recently. Free miso soup, free kinmedai kasu and misozuke, aji sashimi, etc. You just have to pour your own serving of soup and grill your own fish on their open grills :P

btw, isn't todai's cafeteria for students/faculty/staff only? atleast, that's the impression I got.

still...doesn't change the fact that food can be gotten for cheap in Japan without trying too hard...Sushiro's 100yen/plate is pretty sweet (even if you only get one toro per plate)

[xris]

Ahem, let's take a look at the title of this thread.

Japanese DVD Anime Pricing (How Does It Work?)

Now as far as I'm aware the topic of how to sponge free miso soup or other food items wasn't exactly the reason why the thread was created. While the recent posts on the cost of food in Japan has been interesting they simply do not belong in this thread. I have no objection if you want to continue this particular food related topic but not in this thread thank you. Please take a look in the General Chat forum as I'm sure there are a couple of suitable food threads that could be used.

Let's get back on-topic please

[Sister Princess]

Does "recruitment"* factor the pricing of Japan DVDs?

*such as having specific "branded" VAs or having famous musical staff.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Sister Princess

Does "recruitment"* factor the pricing of Japan DVDs?

*such as having specific "branded" VAs or having famous musical staff.

Actually, if it does impact the price, it may actually be in the opposite way to what you might be thinking. Typically, the reason they incur these sorts of costs is for two reasons:

1) It'll increase interest in the property (by attracting fans of the recruited individuals)
2) They'll be able to leverage the talent to sell other merchandise

For example, having top-class VAs provides lots of opportunities for concerts, events, CD sales, etc. Having top-class musical talent will help push the soundtrack CD to the top of the charts. Given that the music industry continues to be one of the top producers/funders of anime, they're certainly considering "what's in it for them".

So, a show with top-class vocal and musical talent may actually have cheaper DVDs because they're counting on CDs, events, and other merchandise to offset it (keeping in mind what I said earlier about the "maximum spent per franchise" principle). Let's say that it was always a "calculated bet".

[mandarb916]

Top class VA's also don't equate to the highest tier pricing either. There's an annual or semi-annual self-ranking system for VA's which ultimately determine their per diem rate. I THOUGHT that the starting rate for all VA's is 18000yen/day and goes up from there. However, a good chunk of VA's will down-rank themselves so their per diem fee goes down, but they get more requests for recording. I don't know which specific VA's do this, but I'm sure it affects pricing both upwards and downwards.

top tier VA's may participate in character song albums, but I have mixed feelings about that as...well..some of them are pretty horrid....Mizuki Nana and Sakakibara Yui are some of the more recent exceptions imho. however, I suppose people who are hardcore fans of certain VA's will buy the albums to result in what relentlessflame mentioned in terms of cashing in on other media. Personally, I stay away from VA albums for the most part...even from those VA's I base my viewing around (ie. hirohasi ryo, Koshimizu Ami, etc)

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by Sister Princess

Does "recruitment"* factor the pricing of Japan DVDs?

*such as having specific "branded" VAs or having famous musical staff.

Usually anime is used to reverse effect, where the anime is used as a promotional tool for the band/actress (see e.g. every anime OP ED in existence and Kirarin Revolution), not the other way around.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Actually, if it does impact the price, it may actually be in the opposite way to what you might be thinking. Typically, the reason they incur these sorts of costs is for two reasons:

1) It'll increase interest in the property (by attracting fans of the recruited individuals)
2) They'll be able to leverage the talent to sell other merchandise

For example, having top-class VAs provides lots of opportunities for concerts, events, CD sales, etc. Having top-class musical talent will help push the soundtrack CD to the top of the charts. Given that the music industry continues to be one of the top producers/funders of anime, they're certainly considering "what's in it for them".

So, a show with top-class vocal and musical talent may actually have cheaper DVDs because they're counting on CDs, events, and other merchandise to offset it (keeping in mind what I said earlier about the "maximum spent per franchise" principle). Let's say that it was always a "calculated bet".

To use a video game comparison again, I guess I can see that it's sort of like when you are trying to sell a game that does not have mainstream appeal, often the prices are higher in the hopes that you can break even quicker since you anticipate selling less copies. Of course it's a much bigger price difference in North America as we have fans with different mindset's as I am going to try and rationalize in theory soon.

Horizontal integration definitely seems to play a big part now that I look at it. Minami-Ke's DVD's for example cost upwards of 9,000 yen, whereas something like Gundam 00 costs only 6,000 or so. As we know Gundam is a multimedia phenomenon whereas Minami-Ke is more of a flash in the pan in terms of popularity (at least I think so). Brand Loyalty still seems to play a role though as Gundam DVDs costs more than Gintama's and they come from the same studio, (it's just that Gundam is a bigger name) and likewise something like Clannad costs more then Lucky Star for the same episode count as Clannad is huge in visual novel fan circles.

I would almost argue that exposure and popularity have both negative and positive trends in relation to DVD pricing. On the one hand companies lower their prices a little when a show is horizontally integrated to encourage extra sales when they know they'll break even, but keep them high enough to make them appear more valuable to long standing fans of a franchise that will be desperate to get their hands on the collection. So it's starting to seem like a balancing act between encouraging wafflers to buy by making pricing concessions every so slightly, but also making sure the die-hards empty their pockets as anticipated.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

likewise something like Clannad costs more then Lucky Star for the same episode count as Clannad is huge in visual novel fan circles.

Not to be too picky, but it's actually quite the opposite (as my wallet can attest! ). Lucky Star was sold on 12 DVDs at ~7000 yen each for the LE (total cost ~84000 yen), where as Clannad was on 8 DVDs at ~8000 yen each for the LE (total cost ~64000 yen). The big difference, other than the publisher (Kadokawa is one of the most expensive DVD publishers in Japan), is that Clannad was priced knowing that a sequel series was coming soon following the "so-much-per-franchise-per-year" idea.

Other than that, I think you're right on about the principle of the thing and the "balancing act". It might seem on the outside like some insane, greedy, rip-off marketing sham, but, at the same time, it's quite obvious that the current "system" is the result of a lot of careful research, planning, and experience in the industry. Of course, how they adapt to the big transition going on is the billion-dollar question.

[mandarb916]

Does anyone know if blu-ray releases in general for box-sets will be less than their DVD counterparts?

AIR on Bluray (AIR ep1~12 + AIR in summer 2ep) was 27500yen i think.
AIR on DVD for everything was i think 36000yen brand new (5vol for AIR, 1vol for summer)

ironically, though, AIR on BD is selling for far more now than AIR on DVD in the grey market.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by mandarb916

Does anyone know if blu-ray releases in general for box-sets will be less than their DVD counterparts?

AIR on Bluray (AIR ep1~12 + AIR in summer 2ep) was 27500yen i think.
AIR on DVD for everything was i think 36000yen brand new (5vol for AIR, 1vol for summer)

Incidentally, AIR on DVD was Prelude + 6 DVDs + Memories + Summer = ~50,000 yen pre-discount vs. 29,800 for the Blu-Ray set. But yes, I would assume that boxset re-releases will always be somewhat cheaper than initial releases regardless of format, except in the case where the re-release has significant extras that are above and beyond the normal sort of LE extras. They're always pretty careful to price the boxsets so that they're a reasonable value, but still not so cheap that they devalue the original release and its limited editions. The other thing, of course, is that Blu-Ray gives an opportunity for the hardcore to re-buy, so people won't generally be willing to pay the same amount twice. So I would expect the boxset re-releases to continue to be about 30-40% discounted over the original limited editions, the same way most Japanese boxset re-releases have traditionally been priced.