One Piece - Chapter 509 [Manga]

[fireportgas]

I m pretty sure that Kizaru is a 'logia' type after all cos he took a lot of dmg from Apoo's music ability and besides that when he fought with Hawkins he hit him and told him that he isn't a logia
type but solid!It's not very strong proof though but i am sure it implies sth like that!Anyway I think too that Drake was a T-Rex after all that's awesome(and at the beginning he was my worst super nova ty Oda for making change my mind)!Also about Urouge I don't think he died like that
I am pretty sure he has other many tricks!Generally I believe at the end of the arc only the pacifista will be destroyed and every supernova will escape to the new world and then the goverment will get really upset!I m wondering also about sth... maybe smoker will appear in this arc cos he's hunting mugiwara and they re near marine HQ,it's not that impossible!

[The Imadori]

Smoker huh?
I would like that. But he anpounced he would catch the Straw hats in the new world. I don't see him apearing before that.

I would also say that Kizaru is a Logia user just because that would make every attack against him pretty useless and in the end that's what Oda intended I think. That the Admirals and so on only can be beaten if you know their sepeciffic weakness. Although I hope that he is not one because Logia users are just boring Enel had style and I like smoker but invincible characters in general are just no fun .

[Rawrz]

Kizaru is just wandering around in a goofy mode taunting every supernova possible.Imagining him getting serious with an angry face..scary

[Undertaker]

Originally Posted by marvelB

Ah, I see. Thanks for this most interesting trivia! This instantly explains Hawkin's voodoo powers from last chapter, as well.


...Still, I'm kinda hoping that his power will be referred to as "scarecrow" anyway, just for the heck of it.


And I'm aware of the Gojira/Godzilla spellings... but I guess I'm just more used to the latter romanization. Y'know, I actually think it would be pretty awesome if ALL the Ancient Zoans had a kind of "Kaiju" theme. For instance, there could be a pterodactyl Zoan looks like Rodan/Radan, or a turtle Zoan that looks like Gamera (turtles have long lifespans, so they could count as being "ancient", right? ).

I wonder how his ability work thoough. The way Japanese strawman work is that the doll (strawman) act as medium/subsitution for the person who it is for (by having a hair/body part of the target inside the doll. Than any actions taken toward the doll (ie, burns, nails, etc) will refelect on the target. Chinese strawman, on the other hand revolve putting the doll under the bed and the result is usually illness or death for the target

Originally Posted by marvelB

And I just realized something: Apoo's ability is yet another homage to Jojo's Bizarre Adventure! See, in Part 4, there's this Stand called Echoes which had a very similar ability to attack with sound. He would create sound effects which would have different actions (lke for instance, a "whooshing" SFX would make a strong blast of wind, a "boing" sound effect would make objects springy, etc.). Considering that Jojo is also a series that has characters with very unique powers, I have absolutely no objections with Oda borrowing ideas from it.

No problem with that from me either, after all it is only other manga I can think of that also features tons of unique, refreshing, imaginative abilities with Jojo's Stands System. Now that I think about it, for some reason it also reminds me of Karakuri Circus and its Auto-Mannequins, both are great, great, series in their own right and enjoyable reads.

Back to OP, Kizaru could still be a Logia, just an exception to the rule, after all Teach's now a logia and he is still solid if I remeber correctly.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by Undertaker

I wonder how his ability work thoough. The way Japanese strawman work is that the doll (strawman) act as medium/subsitution for the person who it is for (by having a hair/body part of the target inside the doll. Than any actions taken toward the doll (ie, burns, nails, etc) will refelect on the target. Chinese strawman, on the other hand revolve putting the doll under the bed and the result is usually illness or death for the target

Since Hawkins is the "magician", chances are he uses a method that's unrelated to his DF power for his voodoo. For instance, I doubt those floating prediction cards he drew out in the previous chapter were related to his "straw" ability, so he may actually know some kind of powerful hocus pocus....

[Undertaker]

I just edit my posts because I didn't want to double-posts. but interesting points, I also think there's good chance those tarot cards look alike might not be part of this DF power and base on some post earlier, it seems to more in line with Japanese strawman and voodoo dolls.

[Freya]

Hmm well besides having awesome elemental powers, what's so good about being a Logia user?

[The Imadori]

THey are invulnerable as long as no seastone or their "anti" element is involved. At first this was really cool (especially Enel was just TOO stylish) but if ALL the super high ups are Logia users this is getting kind of boring. No offense to one Piece of course. it's more awsome than it ever was but that as just a side note

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Freya

Hmm well besides having awesome elemental powers, what's so good about being a Logia user?

Near invulnerability for starters. Supreme destruction, as well. Hell, Enel actually died (when he has seastone sprinkled on his body an then was hit with the Reject Dial), but his power brought him back to life. Logia's are the most overall powerful Devil Fruit, but they also have one of the greatest weaknesses (i.e. if you find their weakness then they are ridiculous easy to hurt with their weakness).

[The Imadori]

Originally Posted by james3wk

Near invulnerability for starters. Supreme destruction, as well. Hell, Enel actually died (when he has seastone sprinkled on his body an then was hit with the Reject Dial), but his power brought him back to life. Logia's are the most overall powerful Devil Fruit, but they also have one of the greatest weaknesses (i.e. if you find their weakness then they are ridiculous easy to hurt with their weakness).

I would say that also depends on the Logia user. Crocodile relied on his power way to much. As soon as Luffy found his weakness he could take him down. Same goes for enel. Expert Logia users like Ace or Smoker on the other side seem to be quite aware of their weakness and take their own vulnarability in account. Ace has shown that in his fight against black Beard (although he lost to this overpowerfull enemy) and smoker even seems to stay in a "vulnerable human" state on purpuse to remind him to stay on guard (at least that's what I get from the fact that smoker actually can be hit by surprise attacks but other Logia users can't).

About the "most Powerfull Fruits" this has been widely discussed over one piece yet. Although logia seem to be extremly overpowered they are kind of an additional power rather than a powerup. Lucci for example stated animal Fruits as the strongest in his oppinion as they are the only fruits that can amplyfie your natural power and speed. Superhuman Devil Fruits don't amplyfie speed or power but they add up to the already existing power of the user.

I personally am surprised how little Seastone is used . only two people up until now (Smoker and Viper) have used Seastone as a weapon. And that with all the DF users running arround.

[Freya]

What? Smoker is a Logia? If he is a Logia then that HAS to make Kizaru a Logia. Crocodile was also a Logia?! Wtf? Power of sand? What was Ace's weakness?

Edit: Yeah nvm. Lol.

Hmm shouldn't Smoker have a much higher rank then?

Also isn't seastone a weakness for every DF user?

[james0246]

Originally Posted by The Imadori

I would say that also depends on the Logia user. Crocodile relied on his power way to much. As soon as Luffy found his weakness he could take him down. Same goes for enel. Expert Logia users like Ace or Smoker on the other side seem to be quite aware of their weakness and take their own vulnarability in account. Ace has shown that in his fight against black Beard (although he lost to this overpowerfull enemy) and smoker even seems to stay in a "vulnerable human" state on purpuse to remind him to stay on guard (at least that's what I get from the fact that smoker actually can be hit by surprise attacks but other Logia users can't).

I agree with you here. Simply knowing a Logia's weakness does not necessarily mean that you can beat the user. Blackbeard, for instance, has an amazingly tough body to counteract the fact that his power does not offer the same defenses as regular Logia fruits. The Logia fruit is a tool, and it is up to the user to properly train not only their tools but also their bodies so that they can use their tools to the fullest potential.

Originally Posted by The Imadori

About the "most Powerfull Fruits" this has been widely discussed over one piece yet. Although logia seem to be extremly overpowered they are kind of an additional power rather than a powerup. Lucci for example stated animal Fruits as the strongest in his oppinion as they are the only fruits that can amplyfie your natural power and speed. Superhuman Devil Fruits don't amplyfie speed or power but they add up to the already existing power of the user.

Mostly agree. Logia fruits are the most overall powerful (i.e. in terms of sheer destructive ability), but they also have the single greatest weakness out of all the fruits (i.e. their elemental-opposite which instantly negates or harms them), so that makes them roughly equal to the other fruits who do not have as much overall power but do posses far fewer extreme weaknesses. So, it all kind of equals out.

[The Imadori]

Originally Posted by Freya

What? Smoker is a Logia? If he is a Logia then that HAS to make Kizaru a Logia. Crocodile was also a Logia?! Wtf? Power of sand? What was Ace's weakness?

Edit: Yeah nvm. Lol.

Hmm shouldn't Smoker have a much higher rank then?

Also isn't seastone a weakness for every DF user?

Yeah Smoker's a logia user. Oda commented on this one. Smokers rank is still that of a HQ captain because of his tendency to disobey. Same fact why Garp never rose above Vice-Admiral I guess. The Marine doesn't apriciate diobidiance.

And yes i think this should have been made clear. A Seastone makes every DF user anable to move and use his powers.
That's in fact another point why a Logia user is in some cases easier to overcome than others. whe he is attacked and doesn't know the atacker is bearing a Sea stone he will probably just try to let the attack pass through him and get hit by a seastone where other DF users might have dodged it (see Enel).

[james0246]

Where does Rear-Admiral fit into the hierachy of the Navy/Marines? And is the translation last chapter of Rear-Admiral correct for Drake's former position, or is the correct translation Commodore? Or, are they the same thing?

[Fyria]

I guess it is Grand Line Fleet Admiral->Admiral->Vice Admiral->Rear-Admiral------------------------>Admirals of normal seas

[Blaine]

Originally Posted by The Imadori

Yeah Smoker's a logia user. Oda commented on this one. Smokers rank is still that of a HQ captain because of his tendency to disobey. Same fact why Garp never rose above Vice-Admiral I guess. The Marine doesn't apriciate diobidiance.

I thought Smoker was promoted to commodore after Alalbasta.

[The Imadori]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Well, the big drawback of this "invulnerability" is, that they have to be concious.
If the logia-user is sleeping or unconcious, he can't use his power and can be killed pretty easily.* Paramecia like Luffy on the other hand keep their properties also without any concious action... he is rubber even when he is knocked out (like in the Arlong fight, when he was trapped under water).

I'm not sure about that. Remember Skypia? Kamakiri attacked Enel while sleeping and the attacks still went through him. Same goes for ace when Ogre shot him (although he might just have a quick reaction time).

Originally Posted by The Small One

Isn't the reason, that Garp is only vice-admiral, the fact, that there is only one rank above: Admiral; and that they only have three open positions for admirals "kizaru", "akainu" and "aokiji", out of which all are filled?
(Maybe the current Kizaru gets defeated by the supernovas and then Garp gets promoted to the new Kizaru)

I figgured so because Garp was already a Legend when Kizaru and co were just Kids or blody newbies. I think Garp has done so much for the marine and is powerfull enough to be an admiral but Sengok only promotes the most trusted AND most Powerfull to Admirals.
But I also don't think Garp is still after this post. He seems to enjoy quite a privileged position in the marines anyway as he can act without sengoks command or speak to Sengok any time he likes.

Originally Posted by Blaine

I thought Smoker was promoted to commodore after Alalbasta.

No he refused because he didn't bring crocodile down. But he is currently hunting after a promotion to get moved to the new world.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by james3wk

Where does Rear-Admiral fit into the hierachy of the Navy/Marines? And is the translation last chapter of Rear-Admiral correct for Drake's former position, or is the correct translation Commodore? Or, are they the same thing?

Rear Admiral (少将) is one rank above Commodore (准将) and one below Vice Admiral (中将). Kizaru refers to Drake as "少将" (shoushou) so he was definitely a Rear Admiral. Hope that helps!

Originally Posted by The Imadori

No he refused because he didn't bring crocodile down. But he is currently hunting after a promotion to get moved to the new world.

Yeah, except that Smoker DID become a Commodore after Alabasta, anyway. His grunts even refer to him as such when he's shown at the end of Water 7. But yeah, he wants to get promoted even further so he can catch Luffy in the New World....

[Freya]

I wanna see Luffy and co meet up with Shanks and stuff. Luffy and Shanks meet up and Ussop and Yossop meet up to as father and son.

[Red Lupine]

so, what would be smoker's weakness?

what counters smoke?

sand gets beaten by water
lightning -> rubber
mystery liquid -> jar (lol movie 2)
fire -> water (I assume this was Ace's weakness)
candy -> flour (movie 4)
ice -> fire (Sanji vs AoKiji)
darkness -> physical (it hurts him)
light -> sound
smoke -> ???