The role of the man in Harem

[Fireminer]

Just recently got into Go-Toubun. It is good. However, thinking about Fuutarou makes me want to ask this question:

Why in (probably) the majority of Harem series, to the girls the man is equal to not only the boyfriend/husband, but also some kind of father and teacher? They need him to be their emotional crutch, and/or a firm hand leading their action.

In other words, can a harem be formed just between no-string-attached friends-with-benefits?

(This is a question I need to answer in thinking about Isekai and its relation to Hikkikomori/Neets/Incels. If you think about it, when taking about these people, the media (especially in the West) tends to have a condescending tone to tell them that their achievements are not important, whether that achievements are losing your virginity or having a well-paid jobs. "Just be yourself." They said.

I think that depiction has a mote of truth in it, but they also ignore the relationship angle. Hikkikomori/Neets/Incels do lack real, meaningful relationship, not completely because they don't try, but also because the type of relationship they are familiar with are framed in what I would say "vapid"--hierarchy, money, fame, you name it--and they feel like they do not fulfill the expectations that come with these relationship.

By that logic, can we presume that in many Isekai novels, Harem is not necessary? After all, the authors write this kind of works to fulfill their fantasy and others like them. And if that wish is to establish real, meaningful relationship, then why do they write in a harem?

Or, maybe they are unaware of their ignorance about what a true relationship and its expectations really is?)

[0cean]

What question are you really asking here?

Having a harem means that there's something for everyone. One girl can be hit or miss with the audience, if you've got more you can cover more ground. Then the audience can fight each other over who is best girl and keep talking about the work. Free marketing. Once the hero has chosen a girl, the story also tends to be over, so keeping the relationship status open is kind of mandatory. Even if there is only one girl, like in Spice and Wolf, for example. And even if the relationship part is set in stone at the beginning, like with Monogatari Series, most of the story still revolves around the protagonist hanging out with different girls.

[serenade_beta]

I'm pretty sure it is just an attempt at an "I'm unique because I have this gimmick!"-type of thing.
Kinda like how all cute-girls-doing-cute-things have them do "different" things, but it is actually the same. But because they are doing something like volleyball, they supposedly have a millimeter of creativity in them.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Fireminer

... After all, the authors write this kind of works to fulfill their fantasy and others like them. And if that wish is to establish real, meaningful relationship, then why do they write in a harem?

Or, maybe they are unaware of their ignorance about what a true relationship and its expectations really is?)

I wouldn't place too much stock in this. Sometimes fiction is just fiction, and isn't necessarily an expression of some sort of deep-rooted real-life desire. Some authors may like to write these sorts of stories purely because they find it interesting/entertaining, and likewise some readers may like to read them purely for the entertainment value. Having different romantic candidates creates some drama that keeps "shippers" hooked and allows them to explore different aspects of the main relationship. Giving the romantic interest some degree of co-dependency also makes it easier to keep them in the "orbit" of the protagonist and plays into a number of familiar/comfortable tropes. Representing "real, meaningful relationships" isn't necessarily the goal or desire of the author or the audience in the first place; sometimes they're just contributing a new work in a genre that has a lot of precedence and audience expectations.

Basically, I think you're trying to psychoanalyze motivations a bit too much, and so your questions won't really have answers. It'd probably be more useful to study the history of the genres to understand how the current genre evolved over time and what its various influences were.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Fireminer

Just recently got into Go-Toubun. It is good. However, thinking about Fuutarou makes me want to ask this question:

Why in (probably) the majority of Harem series, to the girls the man is equal to not only the boyfriend/husband, but also some kind of father and teacher? They need him to be their emotional crutch, and/or a firm hand leading their action.

In other words, can a harem be formed just between no-string-attached friends-with-benefits?

(This is a question I need to answer in thinking about Isekai and its relation to Hikkikomori/Neets/Incels. If you think about it, when taking about these people, the media (especially in the West) tends to have a condescending tone to tell them that their achievements are not important, whether that achievements are losing your virginity or having a well-paid jobs. "Just be yourself." They said.

I think that depiction has a mote of truth in it, but they also ignore the relationship angle. Hikkikomori/Neets/Incels do lack real, meaningful relationship, not completely because they don't try, but also because the type of relationship they are familiar with are framed in what I would say "vapid"--hierarchy, money, fame, you name it--and they feel like they do not fulfill the expectations that come with these relationship.

By that logic, can we presume that in many Isekai novels, Harem is not necessary? After all, the authors write this kind of works to fulfill their fantasy and others like them. And if that wish is to establish real, meaningful relationship, then why do they write in a harem?

Or, maybe they are unaware of their ignorance about what a true relationship and its expectations really is?)

Rather interesting post. Good insights.

Personally, I think that harem is almost always used as pure wish fulfillment. Bokutachi wa Benkyou ga Dekinai and Go-toubun no Hanayome are probably two of the more modern, better crafted harems out there. I think that isekai in particular have protagonists that are appreciated because they succeed and do great things. The focus on how good they are either in looks, achievements, ability, or in some other ways definitely is taken as a main reason for why their harem members find them attractive.

It is common in anime for it to use the strategy where it takes pretty, good-looking cool/cute characters and has them say emotional things that others can relate to and then internalize because it is much easier to listen to someone who feels awesome than someone that seems normal. The shininess rubs off on the viewer and I think with harems it's similar in terms of otaku reading into the awesomeness of the mc.

The better written romance stories either with WN's, LN's, manga, VN's, anime, jrpg's, anime or other otaku culture related stuff definitely focus more on relationships where both parties like each other for who they are and simply because they just happen to be entangled in each other's lives. Of course, wholesome writing can also be found in things like Karakai Jouzu no Takagi-san. An example of things with harem elements and excellent writing would be Toaru Majutsu no Index (the novels and its spinoffs) and the Legend of Heroes: trails subseries. Those have a lot more depth for me that seem to be more in line with what Flame said above.

[Fireminer]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I wouldn't place too much stock in this. Sometimes fiction is just fiction, and isn't necessarily an expression of some sort of deep-rooted real-life desire. Some authors may like to write these sorts of stories purely because they find it interesting/entertaining, and likewise some readers may like to read them purely for the entertainment value. Having different romantic candidates creates some drama that keeps "shippers" hooked and allows them to explore different aspects of the main relationship. Giving the romantic interest some degree of co-dependency also makes it easier to keep them in the "orbit" of the protagonist and plays into a number of familiar/comfortable tropes. Representing "real, meaningful relationships" isn't necessarily the goal or desire of the author or the audience in the first place; sometimes they're just contributing a new work in a genre that has a lot of precedence and audience expectations.

Basically, I think you're trying to psychoanalyze motivations a bit too much, and so your questions won't really have answers. It'd probably be more useful to study the history of the genres to understand how the current genre evolved over time and what its various influences were.

I did tried to look at the history of the genre, but between me having no knowledge of Japanese, and how harem seems to be somewhat of a singularly Japanese thing - sure, polygamy eroticas exist as far back as the Victorian era, but I can't find a way to decide if Western literature has any thing on the harem genre. As for Japanese literature on itself, the only thing comes up on my mind is The Tale of Genji.

Can we say that harem is born, live, and die within the confine of anime, manga & light novel?

Also, I think you are on to something right. Maybe I am psychoanalyzing too much. Whenever I read some piece of art, one thing always jump up to my mind: Is the author self-aware enough to understand what is the implications/prejudices contained in his creation? (That is why I tolerate (tolerate, not allow myself to like) GATE. Sure, I am against the tone of the work, but I also think the author is too dumb to recognize that.)

[Archon_Wing]

Well this is all why the meta has evolved into doing away with the placeholder male and just doing all female shows. It has all the benefits of harem of showing off a bunch of female characters with unique quirks but not having to bother writing said MC or worrying which ship will win. You can also either put in a male minor character (this isn't good because otaku will screech about purity) or take the safe route and just do yuri bait because that's not unpure but still worthy of wank material.

[Lex79]

In other words, can a harem be formed just between no-string-attached friends-with-benefits?

Technically yes, if you read Korean series you'll find a lot of stories like this, but from my understanding this is not what Japanese readers want. They want pure love between the main character and the heroines, so authors have to think of a way to make a bunch of beautiful girl fall in love with a guy that usually has no particular apparent qualities, and one of the easiest way is to make the guy provide them support when they happen to be vulnerable.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Fireminer

Can we say that harem is born, live, and die within the confine of anime, manga & light novel?

I don't know if we can say that, but even if you did constrain yourself to that general field, you'd find a lot to study.

For example, harem romantic comedies have been a staple of shounen manga magazines for decades now (The Quintessential Quintuplets runs in Weekly Shounen Magazine), so it's really following in a long history of established conventions and tropes. Keep in mind also that the primary target audience for shounen magazines is not "hikkikomori/neets/incels," it's 8-18 year-old boys (although there's a fairly large audience of girls as well). So when you consider that this is a work primarily targeting kids/teens, this isn't intended to be a really deep exploration of meaningful adult relationships -- it's about a guy being surrounded by cute girls with various traits and eventually (presumably) being forced to choose which girl he loves most. The main sales point is: cute girls.

Also, because the target audience is kids/teenagers, they're not going to go for "no-string-attached friends-with-benefits" -- that would likely only happen in works aimed at older demographics. While the genre typically tries to throw in as many racy situations as they can get away with along the way, ultimately the moral of the story tends to be about "finding one's true love." (This work is particularly on the nose since it literally starts with a masked wedding scene and calls them "brides" in the title.) I haven't read the manga, but almost guaranteed (based on genre history) the ending will be a mock-wedding with all five "brides" (despite having strongly hinted that protagonist favors one of them slightly more), so "life goes on."

So anyway, all this doesn't prevent the author from developing things in interesting ways or having certain meaningful recurring themes throughout the story (after all, although the genre has a long history, not all works are equally successful)... but this is definitely a "genre work" first and foremost. If you're going to look for author intentions and statements, you probably need to look for things a bit more subtle than the basic conforming structure of the piece.

[Akito Kinomoto]

This is some very deep discussion about a self-insert role where you get to pick the most appetizing waifu. Some are better at disguising the buffet table than others at least

[ArrowSmith]

This has to be the absolute worst genre in anime. Pure fantasy, wish fulfillment! Even boys operating mecha is better.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by ArrowSmith

This has to be the absolute worst genre in anime. Pure fantasy, wish fulfillment! Even boys operating mecha is better.

If there were something wrong with fantasy, no one would be watching anime