Hayate no Gotoku manga (raw discussion only)

[Koroshiya_Kame_13]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Mikado really did knew about Hayate and Athena's relationship, and all of this is just to test his loyalty? Dam bastard, probably hiding his true devious plan!!!!

I have my doubts on when Mikado knew about Hayate and Athena's relationship. According to this chapter, Mikado is supposedly the Santa Claus Hayate met when he was a kid. When did it happen? When Hayate was younger than 6 or after the events at the Royal Garden? Mikado didn't know someone could've entered without a stone and Athena didn't tell him Hayate was one. I doubt he'll pay much attention to a poor little boy if he doesn't know what happened in the Royal Garden.

Originally Posted by wolfnagi

BTW,what the use of the rest of the king's jewels?
Can't they use it like this:
Hayate got extra one from Aika or maybe Wataru, Cannot remember
Destroy the Aika/Wataru's jewel in front of Athena/Midas to convince them,
Keep the one that Hayate have hold on for a long time safe.
FIN

That's what we want to know, the use of the stones. If you read the translation then you'll know that Isumi said Athena could differentiate between real and fake, Original Stone and not. BTW, the scanlation is out so you should do some reading.

[Wolfnagi]

Its a fake???
I thought its the original stone,
because it it Mikado who gave that to Aika and if my memory preserved, ain't there supposed to be 10 King's Jewels!!

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Koroshiya_Kame_13

I have my doubts on when Mikado knew about Hayate and Athena's relationship. According to this chapter, Mikado is supposedly the Santa Claus Hayate met when he was a kid. When did it happen? When Hayate was younger than 6 or after the events at the Royal Garden? Mikado didn't know someone could've entered without a stone and Athena didn't tell him Hayate was one. I doubt he'll pay much attention to a poor little boy if he doesn't know what happened in the Royal Garden.

I can't say that you are wrong.

But this...


Mikado: If you want to choose Athena over Nagi, go ahead.
Mikado: If Nagi loses the inheritance, you won't be able to work as her butler.
Mikado: You would probably become Athena's butler.

Mikado: And your debt of 150 million yen...
Mikado: would be transferred onto Athena.

...sounds like Mikado realized Hayate knew Athena really well which is the best way to test Hayate's loyalty, and he even realized Athena desired the stone.

[Koroshiya_Kame_13]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

I can't say that you are wrong.

But this...

Mikado: She has been spoiled by that luxury.
Mikado: She has been protected by money ever since she was born.
Mikado: Do you really think she could live a life without money?

Mikado: If you want to choose Athena over Nagi, go ahead.
Mikado: If Nagi loses the inheritance, you won't be able to work as her butler.
Mikado: You would probably become Athena's butler.

Mikado: And your debt of 150 million yen...
Mikado: would be transferred onto Athena.

...sounds like Mikado realized Hayate knew Athena really well which is the best way to test Hayate's loyalty, and he even realized Athena desired the stone.

I can't say that you are wrong too, but Mikado never said anything about Hayate's relationship with Athena (i.e. The person who saved you before). OK, I might be reading too much into it, but I want something a bit more different than the supposed villain knowing everything about the hero.

Originally Posted by wolfnagi

Its a fake???
I thought its the original stone,
because it it Mikado who gave that to Aika and if my memory preserved, ain't there supposed to be 10 King's Jewels!!

I'm not sure about the number but according to Athena Hayate's stone is the Original Stone. When I said fake, I meant Isumi saying that bringing a fake stone and destroying it won't fool Athena since she can differentiate between a real stone and a fake one.

[Wolfnagi]

It is weird???

[zodanhko]

For me, this implies that much. Maybe I'm too easy going.

Mikado: A test over whether you will sacrifice someone in order to protect your master.
Mikado: If you want to choose Athena over Nagi, go ahead.

Of course, that someone refers to Athena. Will Hayate willing to sacrifice Athena for Nagi's sake? to test his loyalty. And I think, no doubt, that Mikado believes that Athena is someone important to Hayate to use the term "sacrifice" for his master.

[Koroshiya_Kame_13]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

For me, this implies that much. Maybe I'm too easy going.

Mikado: A test over whether you will sacrifice someone in order to protect your master.
Mikado: If you want to choose Athena over Nagi, go ahead.

Of course, that someone refers to Athena. Will Hayate willing to sacrifice Athena for Nagi's sake? to test his loyalty. And I think, no doubt, that Mikado believes that Athena is someone important to Hayate to use the term "sacrifice" for his master.

To tell you the truth, I can't find the decisive line: Mikado: A test over whether you will sacrifice someone in order to protect your master. in the RAW for some reason. Its just:
"Do you think she'll be able to live without money?" followed by "If you want to choose Athena over Nagi just do what you like/want."

You know, in this situation, even if that line was present, what word can you use to replace sacrifice? Not breaking the stone literally means losing Athena to the spirit, which leads to losing the "Old" Athena and thus sacrifice is the only word that fits in the English version.

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Koroshiya_Kame_13

To tell you the truth, I can't find the decisive line: Mikado: A test over whether you will sacrifice someone in order to protect your master. in the RAW for some reason. Its just:
"Do you think she'll be able to live without money" followed by "If you want to choose Athena over Nagi just do what you like/want."

You know, in this situation, even if that line was present, what word can you use to replace sacrifice? Not breaking the stone literally means losing Athena to the spirit, which leads to losing the "Old" Athena and thus sacrifice is the only word that fits in the English version.

Page 7. Second sentence.

Mikado: That's right. It's a test over whether you can be a butler of the Sanzenin family or not.
Mikado: A test over whether you will sacrifice someone in order to protect your master.

Losing the "Old Athena" pretty much is sacrificing Athena which is the generalization of the statement.. Sacrifice doesn't necessary means death but to give-up which, in this case, is to give up someone important to him to test his loyalty.

[Koroshiya_Kame_13]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Page 7. Second sentence.

Mikado: That's right. It's a test over whether you can be a butler of the Sanzenin family or not.
Mikado: A test over whether you will sacrifice someone in order to protect your master.

Losing the "Old Athena" pretty much is sacrificing Athena which is the generalization of the statement.. Sacrifice doesn't necessary means death but to give-up which, in this case, is to give up something important to him to test his loyalty.

Yep, found it. Had me confused there since you put sentences from different pages together. The point I was trying to get is the word sacrifice can be used even if it's someone you don't care about but let's just drop it. Anyways Mikado sure likes to give tests doesn't he? Makes me wonder if he's a S.

[Wolfnagi]

Do you guys think that can anyone change Mikado minds about this??
The only person that i found is Maria and she does't even have a backstory yet!!

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Koroshiya_Kame_13

Makes me wonder if he's a S.

OBVIOUSLY!!!

I don't think this is a child's game anymore for Maria to influence Mikado, and I wouldn't want that to happen. Hayate must take action, must make the decision, as Isumi stated whatever it may be. I won't blame him.

Lol, maybe I'm a "S" also.

[Koroshiya_Kame_13]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

I don't think this is a child's game anymore for Maria to influence Mikado, and I wouldn't want that to happen. Hayate must take action, must make the decision, as Isumi stated whatever it may be. I won't blame him.

You never know. Mikado might just say later he lied about it so Hayate had to make up his mind but that'll piss us off pretty bad. You won't but possibly angry fans in Japan might.

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Koroshiya_Kame_13

You never know. Mikado might just say later he lied about it so Hayate had to make up his mind but that'll piss us off pretty bad. You won't but possibly angry fans in Japan might.

Anything can happen which was why I said, "I don't think." The odds are against it, at least that's why I think.

There will always exist people who think different.

[Rah]

Heh.

Will Hayate play the role of the betrayer again (this time with a very valid reason), or will he save everyone? But seriously, what the hell do all the other gems do? What purpose do they have if the only truly needed one is Hayate's?

Hmm... what if...

The gems all look alike. How do you differentiate between them anyway? With special perceptive powers? What if Hayate has some special power of his own that can convert any gem to the "King's Jewel" or whatever it's called.

Recall when Mikado had all of them, or most of them in his hand, when he was talking to loli Athena in the past. Well, it was Mikado that gave Hayate that gem to guard, and all the rules behind it and the inheritance (which really don't matter). But Mikado also gave a gem to Aika (is that her name? can't really remember - lol..) and perhaps to other people as well.

What if they were all the same in the start, but change depending on who's holding it? Perhaps they require something (I'm thinking something like the power of misfortune or the like) to fill them up with power, and convert them to the status of "King's Jewel"?

Perhaps that's the reason why Mikado was giving them around. Everybody was just a guinea pig. One of them would change... Hayate's did.


Also, they talked something about purification. Isumi did that, but is there some kind of a process they must go through first, before they can gain the status of "King's Jewel"? Oh, maybe since they were all "tainted", Mikado just gave them randomly out. One of them was the King's Jewel, but since it was tainted like the rest, they weren't able to differentiate between them? Hmhmm...

Ah, wait! That would be very reckless of him if there was only 1 original. What if it broke? It's probably the former theory where a gem goes through a change, depending on who's holding it. Perhaps for how long even, before purification? ..........


Hmm... am I spewing nonsense again, or does it sound plausible? What's your take on this, zod?

[Koroshiya_Kame_13]

Rah, the business with the stones is for Hata to know and for us to find out. Trying to figure out the correct theory will just cause you a headache, since basically everything is possible in this manga.

[zodanhko]

Maria stated that the King's Jewels are the Sanzein's family treasures, and there are nine of them. So I'm assuming the status was already placed sometime after Nagi's mom found them while they were still curse.

I know each gem has its own symbol. Taking into account that Athena had been searching for the original stone without knowing the lifted of the curse, I think there is a way to differentiate without them being purified.


From some of the chapters, it stated that the gems' power is too tough for Mikado to handle.

[Rah]

Ah, I see. So basically the one with the ... whatever symbol it has is the King's Jewel, and the others are....? Not enough info here.

But the symbols weren't visible when they were impure, so Mikado handed them over to various acquaintances of Isumi. Makes sense...

Hayate received the lucky one. xD

Still no idea what the others do. Hmmm...


He won't break it, because that would end everything, but he will save Athena.

Mysterious 3rd option, or trade with Midas. Only way I think...

[IndoViking]

Most likely there's gonna be that 3rd choice, no way he's just gonna trade with midas, unless Hayate decides to push his GAR button and pull an Archer-in-HF-esque thing...

[Teleutao]

As I recall, each of the gems has an Ancient Greek letter in them to distinguish them from one another. I think Hayate's was either Pi or Omega and I don't remember what Aika's and Wataru's were. I know that Mikado stated at one point to Athena that Isumi (the once in a thousand years prodigy) was the only one who could purify the stones but that she wouldn't do it for him. So instead he gave them around to people she would meet so that she would purify it for them instead (so far that's only been Hayate's and Aika's that we know about). It is possible that this "King's Power" that Athena lost was the key for making the gems useful, which could mean that any gem Hayate has could be used. Or it could all be wrong and they're all false clues and leads, it's a coin toss really.

He obviously won't do anything that would end the manga, and there's no way Hata would have him betray Nagi. She may be in trouble as she could rely on Mikado more than she is aware of. While she did tell Hayate that she didn't need the inheritance that doesn't mean that it's true as Mikado could have been helping her behind the scenes this entire time. After all, he adores Maria and would easily ensure that Maria was well taken care of as well.

If my guess is right, then the next chapter will likely be all of them trying to enjoy the last day of Golden Week while Hayate spends the whole chapter wondering what's most important to him. Hinagiku and him will have to have at least a short talk in which Hayate can't tell her exactly what happened and Ayumu and Nagi may be the same. If they're going back to Japan soon then the story will probably take a slightly more cheerful turn when his decision is revealed and everyone leaves Greece with happy memories or something.

[Rah]

Mikado "adores" Maria because he values her as a vessel for Yukariko's soul. Obvious is obvious... ^________^