What Constitutes Child Pornography?

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

I always liked my morality classes, although I took them when I was in Korea. It could use a bit of updates when it comes to sex.....

Intriguing. So what updates are these?

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by aohige

Child pornography banning laws are welcomed in Japan, and would get support of the majority no problem.

The problem is, they keep trying to include FICTIONAL depiction in the law.
Because you know, a child drawn on paper has human rights. /sarcasm

If they didn't so insistently include that retarded section, the law would have passed ages ago.

Yeah, I'm talking to you Ishihara.
Which is funny, becuase I'm reluctantly defending his rights in another thread right now.

Think of all the fictional characters who have been tortured, blown up, murdered, brought back to life, murdered again... o the horror. O wait, an ink and paper sketch isn't real? That's the level of retarded in witch burners trying to equate fictional or drawn works to real children.

Hurting a real child at any point in the process? I'll be standing right there with a bat. A piece of paper? The bat is for the idiot trying to call it child abuse. Ishihara is particularly disgusting because he's author of written fiction depicting underage abuse and rape. It just illuminates either his stupidity or cynicism, never sure which My hypothesis is that anime/manga competes with written fiction and that's his underlying beef (couple with the usual "nationalist hysteria of society rotting").

Heh, and yes I've had retards try to equate my attraction to small, petite women as "pedo". Except... I find pre-pubescent girls to be utterly unsexy. Cute? yes. Worth protecting from scum? yes. ..... sexy? Not at all. (and actually, I've got a wide range of women I find attractive so retarded comments get even more ridiculous).

Fundamentally, the attempt to equate fictional writing, drawing, or creation of *pretend* children to the horror of abusing *real* children just completely demeans real children and wastes resources that could be used to protect them. I'll say it again, its just a flag to me that the purveyor of such nonsense is irrational and possibly a walking closet of rattling skeletons themself.

If you ban fictional works, it also bans the possibility of telling stories that portray the consequences of such behavior. The classic book "Lolita" was not a "happy story", it was a story showing how complicated things can get.

[willx]

@Dr. Casey - Don't do it! It's a trap! /Admiral Akbar

Spoiler:

Re: Pornography (incl. drawn images) I wanted to reiterate my previous comment --

I will also state upfront so that there's no confusion. I'm not a prude and I don't want anyone to take my pr0ns away!

Studies have apparently shown:
1) Being exposed to explicit erotic images desensitizes people to images of violence - ie. Being shown pornography then being shown violent footage results in decreased mental responses
2) Being exposed to large quantities of explicit pornography has been shown to result in ED and impotence in young males (happening in either Italy or Spain), due to normal females not being stimulating enough in comparison

Obviously these points above are talking about erotica in general, not specifically "child porn" which is the topic. It's just something interesting to keep in the back of your minds when we talk about this topic and others in general.

We all want what we want and detest what we find disgusting. What actually gets regulated vs. what actually remains "free and open" depends on our societal values.. But never forget, what we *think* is okay.. might actually not be.. Remember that most narcotics as well as tobacco and other things that were all once thought to be "okay"

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

Intriguing. So what updates are these?

Theee is no update outside of regular sex. Schools will never teach same-gender sex, so you can shelf your BL fantasies.

[Nightbat®]

Late to this party but like to quote something a few pages back

Added emphasis that these aren't Seiji's words but the 'scientist' whom he quoted

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Coming from someone that is in an area where working long hours and putting career before family is important
I wonder if this doctor is reminded that when WE were teenagers, we often had someoneone at home taking care of us
(and no, that wasn't a paid babysitter)

"Loving relationships"?
How can they be taught when today there's nobody home?
I'm seeing just a little more mutual love coming from today's parents than I can find in porn movie

[Random32]

I think there is a causal relationship between more porn and less sex crime.

There are a lot of variables and things to consider, but every time we see porn go up, we see sex crime go down. Not just in Japan either, but across the world, in culture and situations that share little with Japan's with the except of an increase in porn and a decrease in sex crime.

Not very strong basis for causal, but I think there is some there.

With the above caveat in mind, refer back to the many concerns highlighted by respected organisations in the Reuters report that started this thread. It is the contention that Japan is not defining and not treating such crimes the way some other countries do. By implication, the suggestion is that these numbers are low in Japan not necessarily because "Japan is a safer place because of easy availability of kiddie porn", but simply because they are not treated as seriously as they would be elsewhere.

Regardless of how Japan compares to other countries, Japan compares to its older self pretty decently. And as porn went up (I know the U of Hawaii study didn't make the strongest case for this, but hang with me), sex crime went down. Also, if anything, definitions of sex crime only got stricter and increased education would probably increase reported rate since more people know what sex crime is and what to do. Despite these two things, sex crime numbers still kept going down.

So, "Japan is safe because of porn" is pretty shaky, but I would be confident saying that "Japan is relatively safer with porn than it would be without."

[KitsuneShi]

Okay, good reasons, but I don't think it plays out well in reality. Were reality to match your reasoning, we would expect to see an increase in sex crime after an increase in pornography, since pornography would desensitize people to sex crime, thus render them more likely to commit them. But this doesn't happen, in every situation that I'm aware of, an increase in pornography is not only not followed by an increase in sex crime, but it is followed by a decrease in sex crimes.

So, from the information I have, you are incorrect. What you say does not match up with reality, at least in regard to porn and sex crimes. I don't see a flaw in your reasoning, but it just doesn't work that way in reality for whatever reason.

What I am asking is that you either provide evidence that supports your reasoning (something that shows that porn results in the increase in sex crimes, or any negative behavior really), tell me why my evidence is bad so I can go look for better evidence, or accept that your assertion is most likely incorrect.

Look, im a transcendentalist, the porn child porn itself wasn't the focus. I would gladly look up facts and cases if that were what I was advocating. I've already said because of laws, they restrict themselves, so ofc, reality doesn't work that way because that wasn't what I was even saying. Its a moral predicament.

[Nightbat®]

Now we're getting into the debate of prostitution and porn allowing women to walk the streets at night
I've found myself getting off target as well, shall we get back to the topictitle?


Definition: Child pornography = media formats depicting underage children in sexual 'situations'

the grey area is the 'situations', if I were to have stated 'acts' we wouldn't be having this conversation

best 'controversial point': Are teen idol mags CP?
If 'yes' are the promotional vacation resort brochures depicting children in bikinis (or less) also CP?
How about child fashion advertisments using real life models?
Documentaries of African villages?
Certain sports (Athletic/Olympian stuff/cheerleading?)

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by Nightbat®

best 'controversial point': Are teen idol mags CP?
If 'yes' are the promotional vacation resort brochures depicting children in bikinis (or less) also CP?
How about child fashion advertisments using real life models?
Documentaries of African villages?
Certain sports (Athletic/Olympian stuff/cheerleading?)

At the base, could thoses be considered as porn, child pornography or not ?
If you go that way, why not anatomy book? painting?

I askey once on this forum that was the difference betweem Erotic and Pornographic, the discution it sparked was interesting. The difference betweem the 2 is most likely meaningless in this discution but the font is still good; before being ''child'' pornography, the material is logicaly pornographic.

[Random32]

best 'controversial point': Are teen idol mags CP?
If 'yes' are the promotional vacation resort brochures depicting children in bikinis (or less) also CP?
How about child fashion advertisments using real life models?
Documentaries of African villages?
Certain sports (Athletic/Olympian stuff/cheerleading?)

1. Is the swimsuit edition of Sports Illustrated porn? Nope. The key difference is that the people are wearing clothing that covers private parts. So, applying this to teen idol mags, the girls aren't naked, thus it isn't porn. If it isn't porn, it can't be kiddy porn.
1.a) Some people argue that the girls in said magazines aren't treated well. That is a problem, but it isn't a child porn problem, its a working conditions problem and is best fixed with better regulation, not censorship.
2. Child fashion adverts have fully clothed children. Same as above. Point "a" may also apply.
3. Now for the second thing at porn requires, intent. The naked people requirement is met, but the intent is not to turn people on, but rather to educate. Anatomy textbooks aren't porn, neither are documentaries.
4. Can't see private parts, not porn. Also, most of the time, not intended to be used as fap material.

5. I'll add this since you didn't mention it and someone eventually will. Simulated CP (e.g. loli) is not CP. Yes, its porn, but it doesn't feature children, it features characters. Children are young members of H. sapiens, characters are fictional objects often based on them.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Random32

5. I'll add this since you didn't mention it and someone eventually will. Simulated CP (e.g. loli) is not CP. Yes, its porn, but it doesn't feature children, it features characters. Children are young members of H. sapiens, characters are fictional objects often based on them.

Spoiler for Slightly out of topic to answer Random32 and Anime Review:

As long as the age is probably hinted that the character is depicted as above 18.. there won't be a problem... The problem arises when one features (in drawing) a little girl/boy in nursery uniform being F*** by her her teacher is basically "WTH?!"..that reminds of the controversial anime Boku no Pico

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

As long as the age is probably hinted that the character is depicted as above 18.. there won't be a problem... The problem arises when one features (in drawing) a little girl/boy in nursery uniform being F*** by her her teacher is basically "WTH?!"

One word. Pomf.

[MakubeX2]

Originally Posted by aohige

So I don't know what you're talking about?
Your vision of Japan seems to be vastly different from my real Japan.

Excuse me, I wasn't under an impression and thus ignorant. Thanks for the enlightenment anyway. And I believe I had retract statement this statement prior.

But let's get back to the story at hand namely the punishment in regards to child sexual exploitation. As I had point out, the punishment meted out for membersog what is perhaps a major production and distribution ring of the Kansai Enkou videos seems pretty minor in 2005

The main camera man/director/actor gets 10 million yen fine and jailed 15 years. 3 of his crew members who also participated in the filming get 6-7 years jail time. Very much piecemeal for Yakuzas. If such incidents in the west, I believe those 4 will cease to exist and never heard of again.

The law, in a way, is a reflection of what is tolerated in a society. And I take note that today, the Japanese ask for a rewrite of the law, enforcing stiffer punishment. But the Japanese is never known for being straight forward with their private-public face thingie, thus I will take their reprted sendiments with a pinch of salt.