(L) Log Horizon (novel)

[DQueenie13]

I mean maybe, but if that's still an ongoing concern, then that only makes the past two years all the more baffling. I don't know much about how publishers operate, but they already had headway on finalizing volumes 12-16 as of 2 years ago. Seems like a weird decision to make if continuing to publish Mamare's works was a risky bet.

[DarkJak2050]

Guess it's an "indirect" way of showing of what happens if you have a Criminal Record in Japan. They'd "work with you" but at the same time "shafting" you.

Volume 12 was set to be released in September 2019, only to get yanked at the last minute for no apparent reason and no further notice on a new release date. If they weren't going to release that Volume, then why even bother to announce it? To give us a false sense of hope?

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by DarkJak2050

Guess it's an "indirect" way of showing of what happens if you have a Criminal Record in Japan. They'd "work with you" but at the same time "shafting" you.

They must really hate him if that's the case. It's one thing to do public shaming and another to get their customers mixed up in the mess.

Volume 12 was set to be released in September 2019, only to get yanked at the last minute for no apparent reason and no further notice on a new release date. If they weren't going to release that Volume, then why even bother to announce it? To give us a false sense of hope?

That's the thing. The end result is that this, especially with the lack of any explanation as to why this happened, confuses the fanbase, the ones who would still buy their products, and builds frustration and weakens interest.

It would be a bad business decision... but then again, we are talking about the company that thought it was a grand idea to make Kemono Friends 2 without the people that made it a success =P

[DQueenie13]

Originally Posted by Estavali

They must really hate him if that's the case. It's one thing to do public shaming and another to get their customers mixed up in the mess. [...] It would be a bad business decision...

Not just customers, but anyone else working on the novels. Hara (and his assistants) were already working on illustrations for volumes 12-16 during the Re:Fraction event, assuming they weren't already finished with 12-14's illustrations by that point. (Only sketches were shown for 15 and 16, so it's hard to gauge their actual progress.)

I don't know how illustrators get paid in the LN business, but if it's a contract-type deal like it usually is over in the U.S. where they get some money at the start and then get a cut of the profit from book sales, then they've done work only to have a chunk of their supposed revenue just... not come to fruition because Kadokawa never published their work.

[DarkJak2050]

Other than the Author/Creator passing away, one of the worst ways for a series/franchise to die out is from an outside or behind the scenes influence (like Mamare's Criminal Record).

And with how Kadokawa's been giving Log Horizon the shaft lately (only releasing 2 Volumes in the past 5 years, when there's usually 3-4 in that same timeframe in any other series/franchies), it may be the case.

While at the same time, they're too busy with their "Cash Cow" (if you know what series/franchise I mean), despite it's anime being pushed back to Summer 2020. And it's Author has a Clean Record.

If you were in Kadokawa's position, who would you work with?

And by the way, if the Log Horizon mobile game's doing good in Japan, why hasn't it been released outside of Japan? That could've helped it out.

[DQueenie13]

I mean, Kadokawa's working with both. It's not like they dropped Mamare and aren't working with him at the moment, because they are.

As for the mobile game, the tl;dr is:

1. The company behind it is tiny and wouldn't have the resources to go global.
2. The game isn't an app, it's a mobile browser game on Japanese-language-only platforms like Mobage and GREE. The only game I know of with an EN translation on those platforms is Granblue Fantasy, whose devs are profitable enough to get an in-house translation team. (And even they shut down the global version of one of their older games, Rage of Bahamut, many years ago.)
3. As-is, the game is genuinely terrible for F2P players. About 80% of its gacha characters are basically paywalled, because the F2P banner hasn't been updated since June 2016. I imagine that would be a huge turn-off for a casual player who discovers Log Horizon this way, and it's only the tip of the game's problems.

[DarkJak2050]

Oh? Then why is it that they suddenly yanked Volume 12 from it's September 2019 release date for no reason and no further notice on a new release date?

Was it out of "spite" towards Mamare because he has a criminal record? Or so they can put more effort and work towards a "certain" series/franchise and shove it down the throats of Log Horizon's Fanbase and force them to switch on over to it?

Originally Posted by Estavali

That's the thing. The end result is that this, especially with the lack of any explanation as to why this happened, confuses the fanbase, the ones who would still buy their products, and builds frustration and weakens interest.

It would be a bad business decision...

Exactly. The frustration and weakening interest from the fanbase is just the start. This "procrastination" from Kadokawa could help lead Log Horizon to it's death. We don't want that now, do we?

[magnuskn]

It would probably make more economic sense for them to release the next novel volume when the TV series starts up again.

Don't assume nefarious aims if there is a more logical and economically viable answer. I mean, it also could be what you guys suggest, but the relatively imminent release of a new anime season makes releasing the next novel at the same time a good profit window.

[RDNexus]

Oh, True Story. Good point. Despite having totally forgotten a Season3 was coming...
If there's a Season3 coming, it may mean Kadokawa hasn't given up on Log Horizon.
It sure sucks to keep waiting in the dark like this, but it's the best we can keep doing.

[DQueenie13]

The S3 announcement was brought up earlier in the thread as a possible reason for the September 2019 debacle. But it fails to explain the other questions surrounding volume 12's (lack of) release: such as what happened with the original Summer 2018 estimate (assuming Kadokawa didn't know about S3 until they listed vol12), or why it ever even got put up at all if they did know. (Some sites had volume 12 listed since June, so the no-show looks like a spur-of-the-moment decision to outsiders like ourselves.)

Of course, there may have been external, uncontrollable factors that aren't tied to either Kadokawa, Mamare, or S3. (Which is definitely possible -- Yen Press once delayed all its new releases by a month for reasons unknown, so it's not unimaginable that something similar could happen at Kadokawa.)

In any case, I wouldn't expect any official news about the LNs until September or October at the earliest.

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by DarkJak2050

Oh? Then why is it that they suddenly yanked Volume 12 from it's September 2019 release date for no reason and no further notice on a new release date?

Was it out of "spite" towards Mamare because he has a criminal record? Or so they can put more effort and work towards a "certain" series/franchise and shove it down the throats of Log Horizon's Fanbase and force them to switch on over to it?

To be honest, if someone hates SAO (or Overlord if you want a more complete list) in the first place, do you really think cancelling LogHora will allow KDKW to "shove it down the throats of Log Horizon's Fanbase"? That would just fan the hate even more, especially if conspiracy-theorists go around spreading unverified and/or exaggerated claims. It'll be like Kemono Friends II all over again, and wow, that was fun (but not for the company!)

And do you know what's the best way to kill a series? Tell the author to announce that he's closing shop and tell people to expect no more from him. A few will probably linger on, hoping against hope, but the rest will treat this as a definite death to the series and move on.

Once again, to go into such elaborate extent just to shame Mamare in public would be an act of someone who bears him so much hatred that s/he is willing to risk the company's reputation (and profits. AND his/her job). Don't forget that, besides the fanbase, other entities like distributors were also affected by the sudden pullout. If, for example, a bookseller had accepted down-payment for a reservation, it would now have to either explain why the customer should leave the money with them, or give in and do a refund. So it's really a decision that could have wider consequences that we could imagine.

Originally Posted by DQueenie13

The S3 announcement was brought up earlier in the thread as a possible reason for the September 2019 debacle. But it fails to explain the other questions surrounding volume 12's (lack of) release: such as what happened with the original Summer 2018 estimate (assuming Kadokawa didn't know about S3 until they listed vol12), or why it ever even got put up at all if they did know. (Some sites had volume 12 listed since June, so the no-show looks like a spur-of-the-moment decision to outsiders like ourselves.)

Of course, there may have been external, uncontrollable factors that aren't tied to either Kadokawa, Mamare, or S3. (Which is definitely possible -- Yen Press once delayed all its new releases by a month for reasons unknown, so it's not unimaginable that something similar could happen at Kadokawa.)

In any case, I wouldn't expect any official news about the LNs until September or October at the earliest.

It could be a combination of factors. Let's say perhaps the original plan was to release volume 12 in 2018. What could have happened?

A) Maybe the marketing team had have put out news about a new volume to test the waters first and found that a good deal of response was still "tax evasion www". Welp, let's wait another year, they might have thought.

B) Maybe they had already planned out what to focus on for each year. 2018 for Overlord, 2019 for SAO and 2020 for LogHora.

C) Maybe they were already planning for S3 around then and the boss said, "Prioritise profit from novels, my puny lackeys. We are a publishing company after all". Don't laugh, it's very possible.

D) Maybe Mamare or his editor (the wonderful Ms T) was ill and progress had to be disrupted.

E) Maybe hara-sensei was too busy working on Gundam Build Divers (side-note: hope the rest of Re:Rise will air soon! =3) and other projects to meet the deadline.

For all we know, it could be even all of the above, all mashed together like an unlucky stew. Or it could be something really stupid, like a key person being too engrossed with IdolMas or Dark Souls (Nasu, Tsukihime 2 when?) =3

[DarkJak2050]

If Season 3's the case, then that could mean that they are heavily relying on Season 3 to do well. But with Studio Deen working on it, I'm not having high hopes for it after how they handled Season 2. Read Klashikari's post. He pretty much got that all covered.

Also after seeing the images in this tweet, it doesn't assure me at all. 5 years since Season 2, and no apparent improvements to the visuals have been made.

And, it's set to air on NHK Educational (Japan's equivalent to the US's PBS channel) which is not your typical anime timeslot, so it's going to throw it back into obscurity.

Even if Volume 12 were to be released right around Season 3 airs, they ought to release Volume 13 shortly after for those who want new content to follow up on. Because with Season 3 covering Volume 12 and (possibly) Volume 11, they're just releasing the same content "twice" within a small time frame. Which might "stale" it if Volume 13 doesn't follow shortly after.

Originally Posted by Estavali

For all we know, it could be even all of the above, all mashed together like an unlucky stew. Or it could be something really stupid, like a key person being too engrossed with IdolMas or Dark Souls (Nasu, Tsukihime 2 when?) =3

Ugh! I've seen that with Izuru Yumizuru and IS: Infinite Stratos. Log Horizon doesn't need that at all.

[DQueenie13]

(In reply to Esta)

You're forgetting about the first 5 months of 2018, though, which saw the release of Volume 11 and a new LHTRPG rulebook (March), the popularity poll, and the Re:Fraction event.

Kadokawa sponsored Re:Fraction, which was a rather bold move. Not only did they put money into setting up the venue, they showed off the titles, chapter snippets, and illustration sketches for volumes 15 and 16. (Meanwhile, last web novel update was the midway point in volume 14.) Attendees posted pictures of long lines at the venue and the official LH twitter had to apologize about the wait to get in, so it's not like they set it up only to have a meager showing.

Executive meddling and/or internal miscommunication is the most likely scenario, barring completely external factors that we'd have no way of knowing about. My best guess is that there are all sorts of divisions in the company, such as the A Team (works directly with the author/illustrators and handles marketing/promotion), the B Team that handles production/distribution, and the C Team that decides which series will get an anime... and these divisions aren't the greatest at communicating. (Which is backed up by the fact that Mamare and F-ta thought Log Horizon S1 getting green-lit was a joke and ignored it until they were called into a meeting with the anime staff.)

If the above is true, then volume 12's debacle can be explained as:

- In 2018, the A Team thought everything was ready to go and hyped up the series, only to get Nope'd by the B Team and then everything dies down again while the A Team awaits more definite news from higher-ups.

- Around June 2019, the B Team was ready to release volume 12 and the side novel and informed all the major distributors, not knowing that the C Team informed the A Team about the S3 decision and to withhold info.

- Results in volume 12 getting listed by booksellers and getting publicity by other news outlets for several months, while the official Mamare site gave no indication of an upcoming novel release.

- B Team gets the memo that they made a big oopsies and quietly take down LH stuff. Leaves fans baffled.

- January 2020: S3 announcement, but still no news about the LN's fate... which leads us to the present.

Originally Posted by DarkJak2050

And, it's set to air on NHK Educational (Japan's equivalent to the US's PBS channel) which is not your typical anime timeslot, so it's going to throw it back into obscurity.

That's a non-issue, because that's always where the Log Horizon anime's aired.

[DarkJak2050]

So all of this was likely caused by them just tripping themselves over for the past 2 years, due to no communication. How infuriating.

Originally Posted by DQueenie13

That's a non-issue, because that's always where the Log Horizon anime's aired.

Yeah sure, if you're okay with them toning it down (censor it, in other words) so that it's viable for kids to watch when it's for a more mature audience. Leaving out the more mature content and in a way, holding it's potential back. Especially on parts where the characters are making contact with their hits, which weren't actually shown in the anime.

One example; when Henrietta slapped Shiroe during the Shibuya Raid to help straighten his head. Instead of actually showing her slapping him, the camera just switches on over to Soujiro and Nureha who are looking at them as the "slapping" sound is heard. And then it switches back to Henrietta and Shiroe after she slapped him.

Or how about when Akatsuki hits Naotsugu before he finishes his obscene lines? That in itself is a form of censorship, too. Because Akatsuki cuts him off. Unlike in the Light Novels where he finishes his lines, but they still aggravated her.

But going back to the hits themselves; in some of them, instead of actually showing Akatsuki hitting Naotsugu, the screen cuts into a "flashy" fill in (black screen filled with pink shurikens) and then it goes back to showing Akatsuki and Naotsugu right after she hits him.

And those are just some, they did similar things like those in their action sequences. A possible way to censor it so that it's okay for Kids to watch because again, Log Horizon's been airing on a Kid's channel and not on your typical anime timeslot(s).

I'd go on more about that, but it would be more fitting for the anime thread instead. So I'll stop here.

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by DQueenie13

(In reply to Esta)

You're forgetting about the first 5 months of 2018, though, which saw the release of Volume 11 and a new LHTRPG rulebook (March), the popularity poll, and the Re:Fraction event.

Kadokawa sponsored Re:Fraction, which was a rather bold move. Not only did they put money into setting up the venue, they showed off the titles, chapter snippets, and illustration sketches for volumes 15 and 16. (Meanwhile, last web novel update was the midway point in volume 14.) Attendees posted pictures of long lines at the venue and the official LH twitter had to apologize about the wait to get in, so it's not like they set it up only to have a meager showing.

Executive meddling and/or internal miscommunication is the most likely scenario, barring completely external factors that we'd have no way of knowing about. My best guess is that there are all sorts of divisions in the company, such as the A Team (works directly with the author/illustrators and handles marketing/promotion), the B Team that handles production/distribution, and the C Team that decides which series will get an anime... and these divisions aren't the greatest at communicating. (Which is backed up by the fact that Mamare and F-ta thought Log Horizon S1 getting green-lit was a joke and ignored it until they were called into a meeting with the anime staff.)

If the above is true, then volume 12's debacle can be explained as:

- In 2018, the A Team thought everything was ready to go and hyped up the series, only to get Nope'd by the B Team and then everything dies down again while the A Team awaits more definite news from higher-ups.

- Around June 2019, the B Team was ready to release volume 12 and the side novel and informed all the major distributors, not knowing that the C Team informed the A Team about the S3 decision and to withhold info.

- Results in volume 12 getting listed by booksellers and getting publicity by other news outlets for several months, while the official Mamare site gave no indication of an upcoming novel release.

- B Team gets the memo that they made a big oopsies and quietly take down LH stuff. Leaves fans baffled.

- January 2020: S3 announcement, but still no news about the LN's fate... which leads us to the present.

You know, this could actually be what had happened

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by DQueenie13

(In reply to Esta)

You're forgetting about the first 5 months of 2018, though, which saw the release of Volume 11 and a new LHTRPG rulebook (March), the popularity poll, and the Re:Fraction event.

Kadokawa sponsored Re:Fraction, which was a rather bold move. Not only did they put money into setting up the venue, they showed off the titles, chapter snippets, and illustration sketches for volumes 15 and 16. (Meanwhile, last web novel update was the midway point in volume 14.) Attendees posted pictures of long lines at the venue and the official LH twitter had to apologize about the wait to get in, so it's not like they set it up only to have a meager showing.

Executive meddling and/or internal miscommunication is the most likely scenario, barring completely external factors that we'd have no way of knowing about. My best guess is that there are all sorts of divisions in the company, such as the A Team (works directly with the author/illustrators and handles marketing/promotion), the B Team that handles production/distribution, and the C Team that decides which series will get an anime... and these divisions aren't the greatest at communicating. (Which is backed up by the fact that Mamare and F-ta thought Log Horizon S1 getting green-lit was a joke and ignored it until they were called into a meeting with the anime staff.)

If the above is true, then volume 12's debacle can be explained as:

- In 2018, the A Team thought everything was ready to go and hyped up the series, only to get Nope'd by the B Team and then everything dies down again while the A Team awaits more definite news from higher-ups.

- Around June 2019, the B Team was ready to release volume 12 and the side novel and informed all the major distributors, not knowing that the C Team informed the A Team about the S3 decision and to withhold info.

- Results in volume 12 getting listed by booksellers and getting publicity by other news outlets for several months, while the official Mamare site gave no indication of an upcoming novel release.

- B Team gets the memo that they made a big oopsies and quietly take down LH stuff. Leaves fans baffled.

- January 2020: S3 announcement, but still no news about the LN's fate... which leads us to the present.

This makes a lot more sense than than the tax evasion theory, especially if these different teams work in separate locations that would make meetings more difficult

[DarkJak2050]

Yet that shouldn't excuse them for not communicating properly with each other if that's the case.

There could've been more Volumes out right now.

Speaking of Volumes, there's something else I've been wondering for a while now.

Spoiler for Vol. 13 Question(s):

On a rough estimate, how much of Vol. 13 did the Akiba Guild Hall Raid take up?

And were there actual "action sequences" in there, instead of something like a "montage" that we saw with the Abyssal Shaft Raid?

[TwistedSami]

I wonder what the S3 status is, with covid-19 and all.

[tuckersister]

So far nothing yet.

[DarkJak2050]

Originally Posted by TwistedSami

I wonder what the S3 status is, with covid-19 and all.

Originally Posted by tuckersister

So far nothing yet.

Wrong thread to talk about that, guys. Here:

Season 3 Anime Thread.