Character Discussion - C.C

[Kittie Rose]

Hey, it's just as likely as your theory. Quite frankly, I doubt either are the truth. And I don't see much that C.C. and Eris have in common at all.

You know very little about Eris at all. Really though I think you're just opposing the idea for the sake of it, to feel more mature. It's a little sad.

Oh, please. Taniguchi isn't going to copy some design of someone else from another show.

Oh wow. So much wrong here.

You're ridiculously naive about anime. You're obviously quite young or have quite a young mentality towards these things so I'll lay down the facts for you.

First off, most designs have other designs in their somewhere. You're a GunxSword fan - given a large part of it was a parody of other mecha anime there definitely are bits and bobs borrowed from other anime. Second, Taniguchi didn't design shit - CLAMP designed the Code Geass characters.

If you say that you must recognise the similiarities between the design, though.

[Kusaja]

Even so, Eris only showed up in one of the Saint Seiya movies or OVAs, I believe. Not exactly an important character even within that franchise.

Those design similarities are so general that they may also be found in at least a dozen other characters, if one looks hard enough.

[Kittie Rose]

Originally Posted by Kusaja

Even so, Eris only showed up in one of the Saint Seiya movies or OVAs, I believe. Not exactly an important character even within that franchise.

Those design similarities are so general that they may also be found in at least a dozen other characters, if one looks hard enough.

She was a villain of the first movie. Which obviously at the time was the only movie.

Eris has appeared in several other things. The point was apparently that japanese people know nothing about greek mytology and any given Norse Goddess would be as recognisable, yet Eris did manage to make it into a very popular anime franchise, whereas Frigg or Freya are not major characters in any anime movie.

You also seem to be focusing on that one point as the crux of the argument when there are others.

I wish people were good at arguing but I guess from a Weeaboo forum it's a bit too much to hope for :/

[Dann of Thursday]

While I admit to not liking the idea, it more has to do that it simply does not make a lot of sense. The personality doesn't fit C.C. all that much. The only similarity I saw was that her giving the Geass has caused some chaos.

There is no need to needlessly insult me. For one, I know Taniguchi didn't handle designs though that was a mistake on my part. The GXS parody was rather deliberate and more of a homage to the shows, this I know.

The design is somewhat similar, I'll admit. I'd think that CLAMP wouldn't simply copy a design of someone else. I'd say that C.C. has more of a resemblence to Yuuko, though it is partial at best.

What annoys me is how you insist on the theory so much when there really isn't much basis for it all. To be honest, there isn't enough at all to form any good theories about who C.C. is at all.

And I'll ask this again, if C.C. was Eris what would her wish be?

[DeotoxSlayer]

Originally Posted by Kittie Rose

You know very little about Eris at all. Really though I think you're just opposing the idea for the sake of it, to feel more mature. It's a little sad..

And it seems like your just trying to make up stuff to justify your theory, which is really sad, don't talk Dann trying to feel more mature, when all you're doing is giving your opinions with no proof, and putting down other peoples opinions because that ust proves your the most immature person on this thread.

Originally Posted by Kittie Rose

Oh wow. So much wrong here.

You're ridiculously naive about anime. You're obviously quite young or have quite a young mentality towards these things so I'll lay down the facts for you.

First off, most designs have other designs in their somewhere. You're a GunxSword fan - given a large part of it was a parody of other mecha anime there definitely are bits and bobs borrowed from other anime. Second, Taniguchi didn't design shit - CLAMP designed the Code Geass characters.

If you say that you must recognise the similiarities between the design, though.

Yeah, the key word there is parody, as in it was made to resemble other anime character, and designs on purpose, All of Code Geass's charcter designs are original, so don't say stuff about, Tanaguchi making characters resemble each other for plot, Code Geass is an Original work so he would never do that, you're under estimating Tanaguchi, and his staff. Secondly LOL "Tanaguchi didn't design shit Clamp did" Tanaguchi got the final say on all chartacter designs, AND if you look at CLAMP's character designs you can tell that most of it's been changed by Tanaguchi, and his staff. Also stop calling dann :immature, and child-like" all your doing is whining because he's giving constructive criticism about your theory, the only Childish, or immature person I see on this thread is you.

[Kusaja]

Originally Posted by Kittie Rose

She was a villain of the first movie. Which obviously at the time was the only movie.

Still, she doesn't appear in the original manga and, in the context of what Saint Seiya was and what it continues to be, it's reaching a bit too far to imply her design has influenced C.C. in Code Geass any more than, say, a dozen other equivalent designs throughout the decades.

Eris has appeared in several other things. The point was apparently that japanese people know nothing about greek mytology and any given Norse Goddess would be as recognisable, yet Eris did manage to make it into a very popular anime franchise, whereas Frigg or Freya are not major characters in any anime movie.

We'd need to know about the background behind that production, but the Saint Seiya franchise was explicitly built around Greek mythology in the first place, so figures from that pantheon were going to make it in, one way or another. There are a few characters from other mythologies as well, but in much smaller quantities.

So far, there is nothing inherently Greek-related in Code Geass, to assume that a particular anime interpretation of a Greek goddess would be the source of inspiration.

You also seem to be focusing on that one point as the crux of the argument when there are others.

Essentially because, even in the unlikely event the rest of your hypothesis happens to be correct, something I don't know and don't particularly mind, that specific part of it seems to be the weakest.

I wish people were good at arguing but I guess from a Weeaboo forum it's a bit too much to hope for :/

I find this rather ironic, for reasons that would be too off-topic to address.

[TurquoiseThyme]

Kittie Rose's theory about C.C. being Eris is very interesting. I had not considered that C.C. might be a godess. But I think that there are very few greek refrences in the show. Even the Ganymede refrence could be in connection to the planet Jupiter, since it is one of its moons, instead.

When Kittie Rose started discribing Eris's attributes, I started thinking of the Irish godess Morrigan. She is a godess associtated with sovereignty,prophecy, war and death. But what really got me excited about this particular goddess as a canidate for C.C.'s identity is that she is sometimes associted with Morgan Le Fay from the Arthurian Legend. She is also associtated with crows, which could give us our wings.

I thought this sort of gave a symmetry with Arthurian legend if we consider.
C.C. = Morgan
Lulu = Mordred (King Arthur's bastard son who wants to kill him)
The Emperor= King Arthur
V.V. = Merlin

V.V. as Merlin sort of threw me since he seems so young until I thought of T.H.White's interpertation of Merlin growing younger rather then older.

[Dann of Thursday]

Well, I doubt we are going to see everyone take on the role of someone from the Arthur legends. We already have that in some ways with the Knightmares already.

I honestly think that she is more likely to be a human, possibly a historical figure though maybe not, who simply gained immortality somehow.

Morrigan is rather interesting though and fits in some ways with the Celtic myths as well as being associated with Morgan Le Fay. Would that make her evil or not though?

[TurquoiseThyme]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

Well, I doubt we are going to see everyone take on the role of someone from the legends. We already have that in some ways with the Knightmares already.

I guess I wasn't really thinking that it would follow the legends exactly, just that some of the relationships could be inspired from them, and that it could provide a recognizable to Lulu name for C.C.

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

I honestly think that she is more likely to be a human, possibly a historical figure though maybe not, who simply gained immortality somehow.

I have read that King Arthur is a real historical figure, just not quite like the legends. If Code Guess is an alternate universe that still has Arthurian Legends, then I would think it would still have a grain of truth behind them as well.

I also tend to think she is not literally a godess but a human who aquired powers somehow. A human that has led to the legends of Morrigan and Morgan Le Fay.

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

Morrigan is rather interesting though and fits in some ways with the Celtic myths as well as being associated with Morgan Le Fay. Would that make her evil or not though?

There are many interpetations of Morgan, some cast her in a much more positive light. I wasn't thinking that C.C was evil, but rather that she was in conflict with "Merlin" aka V.V.

[KrimzonStriker]

Lelouch is certainly not Mordred by any stretch, anymore then he is Light >_>

[Dann of Thursday]

King Arthur has been thought to be a real figure, though some also think that the legends may also be several people throughout history put into one.

The problem with Morrigan is that the name doesn't fit with what we see Lelouch saying as well as how it is easy to pronounce. Morgan La Fay could possibly work though. C.C. being someone who is responsible for the legends being formed is a rather interesting idea though.

[KrimzonStriker]

Hmmph, I remember an old post when people threw around Guinevere as C.C's name as well Maybe she's the lady of the lake, I tend to think that fits her better, did the lady have a name? Hey, it really does fit her after all!!

[Dann of Thursday]

Guinevere would be interesting in some ways, though Morgon sounds like it would fit better in some ways. I think some legends gave the Lady a name, though I cannot recall what it was.

[TurquoiseThyme]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Lelouch is certainly not Mordred by any stretch, anymore then he is Light >_>

I don't think he is Mordred. I just think that he has a lot of parallels to Mordred in situation and goals, probably not their personalities.

They are both sons of rulers that where not appreciated or nurtured by their fathers.
And because of this they want to kill him and destroy his kingdom.
They get extensive help from a witch.

Mordred kills his father, then he dies tragicly.
This is a fate that I think is all to likely for Lelouch.

[KrimzonStriker]

Oldest version I can find for the lady is the medieval tale during Lancelot's quest for the holy grail. It's "Viviane" in that version. Hah, it'd be funny if her name had two V's compared to the one who has the letters in his initials

As for the parallels, yes I do see them, but by no means do I think we should measure the depth of the characters by such standards which is what Dann was trying to do in associating C.C as being evil because of your association of her to Morgan La Fay.

[Dann of Thursday]

Well, Lelouch was said to be getting a "good" end that will leave us all satisfied, so he may not die after all.

[TurquoiseThyme]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

Guinevere would be interesting in some ways, though Morgon sounds like it would fit better in some ways. I think some legends gave the Lady a name, though I cannot recall what it was.

Sometimes the Lady of the Lake and Nimue are thought to be the same character. Nimue is the witch that seduces and betrays Merlin. I had considered that C.C. might be the Lady too specifically because of that scene with her sitting in a lake. Nimue could be said in the time needed, maybe.

[Dann of Thursday]

The name is still too short though, though aspects of it would fit. If Lelouch did in fact recognize the name then it would of had to have been from either myths he was familiar with or history. I think he would have been familar with the Arthur legends, so if it was someone from there it would make sense. Morgan La Fay would be the best candidate in this case I would think since she was said to be a witch.

[KrimzonStriker]

I've also got 'Ninianne' as a possible name as well. The names I put up are technically older then the Nimue version I believe.

[Dann of Thursday]

What do we actually know about her name anyway that would still hold up in R2?