Madhouse: Studio discussion, speculation, and whatnot

[Guardian Enzo]

Meanwhile they continue to run the best anime on television, which is ignored by the overwhelming majority of the English language viewer base.

Neither new Madhouse show has wowed me, but I'm glad to see them seemingly striking gold. This will allow them to continue to produce shows like H x H and Chihayafuru.

[leokiko]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Meanwhile they continue to run the best anime on television, which is ignored by the overwhelming majority of the English language viewer base.

Why would they watch it? It's SHONEN and obviously for kids since a kid is the MC.

haha.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Meanwhile they continue to run the best anime on television, which is ignored by the overwhelming majority of the English language viewer base.

Neither new Madhouse show has wowed me, but I'm glad to see them seemingly striking gold. This will allow them to continue to produce shows like H x H and Chihayafuru.

Mahouka...gold?

Then again gold is determined by how many buys it in the company's eyes...

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Mahouka...gold?

Then again gold is determined by how many buys it in the company's eyes...

That was certainly what I meant.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by leokiko

Why would they watch it? It's SHONEN and obviously for kids since a kid is the MC.

haha.

Which tell you how much of a big prejudice shounen as a whole suffers.

[Reckoner]

Well I'm not so sure about No Game no Life - although it was entertaining, somethings still disturb me about it. But Mahouka at least for me, if Madhouse is going to sell out in any capacity, is a much more agreeable light novel of its nature than many of the other options/titles out there. It can still manage to be a fun ride.

I just hope that this doesn't mean they're going to sell out completely and that it allows them to keep pushing the envelope on great series like Hunter x Hunter, which in my opinion is probably the best anime to come out of the last few years despite being a dreaded shonen title.

Hopefully more Chihayafuru down the road as well, although I'd like Madhouse to give us something new just about now.

[TJR]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I just hope that this doesn't mean they're going to sell out completely and that it allows them to keep pushing the envelope on great series like Hunter x Hunter, which in my opinion is probably the best anime to come out of the last few years despite being a dreaded shonen title.

That's one way of looking at it......

Due to the work arrangement, Madhouse has little to gain except the chance to work on more light novel adaptations and moe shows. Both are gateway projects at best and money losers (for Madhouse and NTV, even if the Blu-Ray distributors go on to sell a bazillion copies of each) at worst.

On the other hand, any kind of work is good from a subsistence perspective.

[Marcus H.]

We're reached the point where going for what they were good at isn't gonna bring them as much money as in their heyday. Gainax, stripped out of their talent, is a clear sign that times have changed, and studios should also adapt or risk shriveling out.

Light novel adaptations and "moe shows" are definitely not signs that studios have "jumped the shark". It's just that original projects are a big gamble and often suck enough to give them a net loss.

[SeijiSensei]

Let's not despair too quickly, shall we? After all there is this earlier comment in this thread about GAINAX/Trigger:

When Trigger produces their first show, I'm pretty sure it won't feel like a Gainax show feels.

I don't know about whether Little Witch Academia fit the bill, but Kill la Kill certainly did.

Original productions have always been few and far between in my experience watching anime. I don't expect to see more than half-a-dozen or so shows each year that aren't adaptations. Among the latter, I generally find shows based on novels like Shin Sekai Yori or Moribito to be the most satisfying because they usually have definitive conclusions.

[Guardian Enzo]

Personally, I didn't find Kill la Kill to feel anything remotely like a Gainax series. Not that it had any obligation to.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Light novel adaptations and "moe shows" are definitely not signs that studios have "jumped the shark". It's just that original projects are a big gamble and often suck enough to give them a net loss.

To me when you have to appeal to the lowest common denominator to achieve success, then there are concerns about the studio's brand ever returning to what many of its fans loved to begin with.

See what's happened to the noitamina block in recent times. Yes, you might still get a ping pong here and there, but it's becoming increasingly rare. The block feels like your typical late night block at this juncture.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

To me when you have to appeal to the lowest common denominator to achieve success, then there are concerns about the studio's brand ever returning to what many of its fans loved to begin with.

Just a friendly reminder that whatever happens to Madhouse, MAPPA is still out there.

Also, best selling madhouse titles of the 2000s:

15021 13 DEATH NOTE
10998 *8 Chobits
*7745 *9 Di Gi Charat
*7377 17 NANA
*5560 *7 Galaxy Angel
*5553 *9 Sakura Taisen

I'm pretty sure if any of the bolded ones came out today there'd be people accusing madhouse of selling out

[IceHism]

How is Mahouka not gold when it proved itself to be one of the most popular Light Novels in Japan? The plot is exceptionally good and i would not be surprised if it exploded like SAO, SnK, or other popular titles.

I think the animation style that they put on No Game No life made it even more interesting but it is obvious they cannot put in everything that happened in the LN.

[TJR]

Originally Posted by IceHism

How is Mahouka not gold when it proved itself to be one of the most popular Light Novels in Japan? The plot is exceptionally good and i would not be surprised if it exploded like SAO, SnK, or other popular titles.

Madhouse doesn't have a stake in Mahouka, so they get a fixed payment for their work regardless of popularity. Furthermore, they lose money if animation costs exceed the secured budget, which is quite common.

On the other hand, a successful run would be good for future business, so it's potentially "golden" as a gateway (which Madhouse could definitely benefit from). It's just that the arrangement on its own won't build them a war chest, nor would it be noteworthy to studios that already have a good track record in the genre.

Originally Posted by totoum

Just a friendly reminder that whatever happens to Madhouse, MAPPA is still out there.

To some extent, there's Tatsunoko as well. A couple production leads (including the producer of Casshern Sins and Kemonozume/Kaiba/The Tatami Galaxy) work there, hence the participation of Masaaki Yuasa on Ping Pong.

[Marcus H.]

To me when you have to appeal to the lowest common denominator to achieve success, then there are concerns about the studio's brand ever returning to what many of its fans loved to begin with.

I don't really care who belongs to the "lowest common denominator" or the "highest common denominator". Studios can't be hipsters in an industry fueled by a small population. What's more important is that they get well-deserved earnings for a project that they put a lot of effort into. (And that doesn't include the so-bad-that-it-even-left-the-staff-baffled Mahou Sensou.)

See what's happened to the noitamina block in recent times. Yes, you might still get a ping pong here and there, but it's becoming increasingly rare. The block feels like your typical late night block at this juncture.

Regarding noitaminA, I've said it before: the reason why noitaminA doesn't work is because they can do this thing with original anime productions even outside the timeslot. The only guarantee is getting a certain time to air the series, but the audience will still have the last say.

And they did.

Rank | Rating | DVD Sales | Title
(**,***: unmeasurably small sales, --,---: not yet released)
*1, 4.800% *6,531 Hakaba Kitarou
*2, 4.627% *3,873 Nodame Cantabile Paris Chapter
*3, 4.564% *8,496 Moyashimon
*4, 4.439% *8,788 Nodame Cantabile
*5, 4.009% **,*** Hataraki Man
*6, 3.509% **,*** Ayakashi - Japanese Classic Horror
*7, 3.500% *6,378 Jyu Oh Sei
*8, 3.483% 12,515 Mononoke
*9, 3.475% *9,338 Toshokan Sensou
10, 3.450% **,*** Antique Bakery
11, 3.327% --,---　Genji Monogatari Sennenki
12, 3.250% *6,110 Honey and Clover II
13, 3.192% **,*** Paradise Kiss
14, 3.046% 11,039 Honey and Clover

Source: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=79794, dated April 17, 2009. I hope I can see more complete figures; all I know is that Robotics;Notes also suffered from low sales as the weaker of the two more recent SciAdv adaptations.

[SeijiSensei]

There are extensive discussions about noitaminA in its own thread and in the ratings discussion. Let's stick to Madhouse here.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

I don't really care who belongs to the "lowest common denominator" or the "highest common denominator". Studios can't be hipsters in an industry fueled by a small population.

Appealing to "hipsters" was part of Madhouse's mission statement, for example director Hosoda said it was a studio where directors could come and get a project off the ground they likely couldn't do anywhere else.
And as of 2013 most of its staff were unfamiliar with anything to do with "moe culture", That's according to No Game No Life director Atsuko Ishizuka who said she had no idea what moe meant when she started working on Sakurasou over at JC Staff and that other staff members had to fill her in.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by totoum

Appealing to "hipsters" was part of Madhouse's mission statement, for example director Hosoda said it was a studio where directors could come and get a project off the ground they likely couldn't do anywhere else.
And as of 2013 most of its staff were unfamiliar with anything to do with "moe culture", That's according to No Game No Life director Atsuko Ishizuka who said she had no idea what moe meant when she started working on Sakurasou over at JC Staff and that other staff members had to fill her in.

It's like a beautiful, impossible dream world...

[Utsuro no Hako]

Originally Posted by IceHism

How is Mahouka not gold when it proved itself to be one of the most popular Light Novels in Japan? The plot is exceptionally good and i would not be surprised if it exploded like SAO, SnK, or other popular titles.

The Mahouka novels certainly sell well, but I find it telling that the series didn't crack the Top 10 on last year's "This Light Novel Is Amazing!" list. It probably didn't do well among the industry professionals polled, but a strong showing from fans can counter that, as happened with SAO, which was #1 before the anime ever aired. So I get the feeling this is a series that's more popular than it is loved. And given that the first two episodes are exposition fests that are still hard to understand without reading the books, I don't see it becoming a mega-hit the way SAO did.

[Marcus H.]

Appealing to "hipsters" was part of Madhouse's mission statement, for example director Hosoda said it was a studio where directors could come and get a project off the ground they likely couldn't do anywhere else.

Heh. I now realize why they're struggling right now. They're making a niche for themselves in an industry that is a niche in itself.