AnimeSuki Forums

judasmartel · 2012-01-07, 04:07

Smart Hero - Doesn't have to be a straight-A book-smart student in-universe, but must be at least Genre Savvy. Bonus points if he is Weak But Skilled Guile Hero.

Strong Villain - Doesn't have to be Book Dumb, in fact I would appreciate Genius Bruiser villains, but has a bad habit of relying on physical strength or Superpower Lottery instead of a Xanatos Gambit to beat the hero.

Anything like these? Because you know, I'm getting tired of Idiot Heroes nowadays, and there seems to be hate against smart people, to the point that the smarter a character is, the more likely that he is evil or at least a Jerkass.

Thanks.

SeijiSensei · 2012-01-07, 08:58

The hero is a heroine in Nijuu Mensou no Musume, but she's certainly smart enough. The villains have some skills, too.

hero147 · 2012-01-07, 09:47

Have you tried Code Geass? It's about a smart teenager trying to destroy a strong empire.

judasmartel · 2012-01-07, 09:58

Hm. Except that the villains are smart as well.

I specifically stated that the villain must be MORE PHYSICALLY STRONG THAN INTELLIGENT because I am tired of Idiot Heroes so I want to see a smart hero pitted against a physically strong villain.

Mortal Kombat, for example, has Shao Kahn. I want a villain like that. Physically strong yet not necessarily dumb.

GreatTeacherKen · 2012-01-08, 19:29

The manga Jojo's Bizarre Adventure is pretty much what you want although the villains are quite smart as well as being strong. All of the protagonists (each story arc has a different protagonist and villain) are very clever and resourceful. Each story arc in the series fits the bill, and the fights tend to involve characters using their powers in clever ways.

Niji · 2012-01-08, 21:26

Jyu Oh Sei might work. Main is smart, and has to grow strong, too. Adversaries count on strength.

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagaan might count. The hero is smart, but also strong (not from outset, gotta let it develop some epis). The villains are strong but also a bit smart (one guy at least).

Utawarerumono I think. Though the hero turns out to be not only smart towards the end at least

Evangelion might count. The lead is not stupid, is backed up by some super smart peeps, and the villain is strong indeed. Well, the obvious villain. The other guy (not sure whether to count him good or bad, though he is on the good side. Or is he?) is smart too. Lead is a bit wimpy though hm, not really the hero type.

I dont know whether important, but kinda side chars count. If so, Madlax might work. Some on the good side are quite smart to very smart. Heroine is smart and strong. But the villains are smart too, but rely alot on strength, IIRC.

judasmartel · 2012-01-08, 21:57

Ah, great. Good thing I have already started with TTGL. But I'm on Awesomeness Withdrawal at the moment, so it would take a while before I start watching it again.

I thought about this, the Suikoden 2 Radio Drama actually fits, as one of its baddies can actually beat sound strategies with just pure brawn.

Thanks for the suggestions, but I appreciate it if there are more of those.

Soliloquy · 2012-01-08, 22:31

Isn't Berserk like what you described and Claymore as well? The only problem is that there are several villains in both series.

If I think about it, some shonen anime has what you are looking for like Yu Yu Hakusho, maybe Fairy Tail.

I want to ask you are you only looking for Anime or manga as well?

judasmartel · 2012-01-09, 03:06

Anime or Manga, doesn't matter. Smart Hero vs Strong Hammy Villain.

MisaoFan · 2012-01-22, 07:10

Horizon on the Middle of Nowhere - It's about a extremely-perverted but smart protagonist who can makes his own political arguments before saving his abducted childhood friend.

I also recommend Death Note. It features a mental fight between smart protagonist and the evil genius detective.

judasmartel · 2012-01-22, 10:34

Hm. I'm settling for TTGL atm. Death Note, it would be nice to read mind games for a while. It seems my intellectual side is getting rusty nowadays.

There's a reason why I liked heroes who can do so many ways with the only hammer that they have without getting too bland.

I see it's pretty tough to write a "smarter-hero-athletic-villain" story because the hero's quality depends on the quality of the villain. Therefore, if the villain isn't worth his salt, then so is the hero.

It's just that it seems like the world hates smart people so much that they can't write smart guy heroes without having them lean over the dark side a bit. It's as if being intelligent is evil.

SeijiSensei · 2012-01-22, 11:48

Oh, come on now. I can think of a number of "smart guy heroes," Dr. Tenma in Monster being at the top of my list. (Others include the Medicine Seller in Bakeneko/Mononoke, Tamaya Seikichi in Oh! Edo Rocket, and Firo Prochainezo in Baccano! to name just a few.)

The problem is your requirement that the villain be strong but not smart. (Perhaps Ladd Russo in Baccano! qualifies?) I'd much prefer a struggle between a smart hero and a smart villain like we see in Monster.

judasmartel · 2012-01-22, 21:18

That's really a problem, isn't it? I just felt so bad that some people associate intellect with being evil or being part of the dark side.

It's as if being smart means evil.

BTW, I don't have any problem reading mind games because the plot resolution almost always comes down to who outwits who. And when that happens, it's almost guaranteed to be awesome.

frubam · 2012-01-23, 09:56

Sorry I don't have a suggestion, but I gotta ask; are you using tvtrope terminology (O.o)?

judasmartel · 2012-01-24, 01:18

Sort of. It has been my sickness lately.

judasmartel · 2012-03-02, 23:35

So, is it really so bad that smart guys are almost always portrayed as evil, lazy, jerkass, or just a plain good guy who leans to the dark side a little bit?

I mean, can't we have a smart guy who DOES NOT have to lean over the dark side to win?

judasmartel · 2012-04-26, 00:41

Sorry to necro this thread, but is it true that Intelligence = Evil?

kuroishinigami · 2012-04-29, 22:39

Not really, but usually intelligent = realist, and realist = a little dark even if their intent is as goos as idealist people. As for suggestion, can't think of any right now beside to aru majutsu no index, but the hero is more like street smart instead of intelligent. There's a lot of intelligent hero, but when you have smart hero, the villian are usually more smart than strong. I will recommend liar game though when you feel like reading great battle of wit.

MUAHAHAHAHAHA · 2012-04-29, 22:43

To me, intelligence breeds egoism, where they think their brain is capable of saving the world and thus their words hold the most weight. Then these intelligent heroes may start doing something what he/she thinks is right but is actually wrong. I would say intelligent but evil characters are directed mostly to scientist characters in animes. Just my two cents.

judasmartel · 2012-04-29, 23:01

Oh my bad. But oh well. At least smart guys from the good side get to be Mission Control.

2012-01-07, 04:07	Link #1
judasmartel Senior Member Author Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines	Smart Hero vs Strong Villain Smart Hero - Doesn't have to be a straight-A book-smart student in-universe, but must be at least Genre Savvy. Bonus points if he is Weak But Skilled Guile Hero. Strong Villain - Doesn't have to be Book Dumb, in fact I would appreciate Genius Bruiser villains, but has a bad habit of relying on physical strength or Superpower Lottery instead of a Xanatos Gambit to beat the hero. Anything like these? Because you know, I'm getting tired of Idiot Heroes nowadays, and there seems to be hate against smart people, to the point that the smarter a character is, the more likely that he is evil or at least a Jerkass. Thanks.

2012-01-07, 08:58	Link #2
SeijiSensei AS Oji-kun Join Date: Nov 2006 Age: 74	The hero is a heroine in Nijuu Mensou no Musume, but she's certainly smart enough. The villains have some skills, too. __________________ Taking Anime Seriously - Politics by the Numbers - Sports by the Numbers - MAL List - Avatars - Images

2012-01-22, 11:48	Link #12
SeijiSensei AS Oji-kun Join Date: Nov 2006 Age: 74	Oh, come on now. I can think of a number of "smart guy heroes," Dr. Tenma in Monster being at the top of my list. (Others include the Medicine Seller in Bakeneko/Mononoke, Tamaya Seikichi in Oh! Edo Rocket, and Firo Prochainezo in Baccano! to name just a few.) The problem is your requirement that the villain be strong but not smart. (Perhaps Ladd Russo in Baccano! qualifies?) I'd much prefer a struggle between a smart hero and a smart villain like we see in Monster. __________________ Taking Anime Seriously - Politics by the Numbers - Sports by the Numbers - MAL List - Avatars - Images

2012-01-23, 09:56	Link #14
frubam simp for Lyria Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: on the Grandcypher Age: 40	Sorry I don't have a suggestion, but I gotta ask; are you using tvtrope terminology (O.o)? __________________ Pure of heart, precious as life (^,^ )

2012-04-29, 22:43	Link #19
MUAHAHAHAHAHA Hail the power of Fujoshi Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: hahahahahahahahaha Age: 35	To me, intelligence breeds egoism, where they think their brain is capable of saving the world and thus their words hold the most weight. Then these intelligent heroes may start doing something what he/she thinks is right but is actually wrong. I would say intelligent but evil characters are directed mostly to scientist characters in animes. Just my two cents. __________________ A politically ignorant person who embraces only hedonism as the main philosophical doctrine. Old stuff but just a reminder that butthurt report form is here to help

2012-01-07, 09:47	Link #3
hero147 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	Have you tried Code Geass? It's about a smart teenager trying to destroy a strong empire.

2012-01-07, 09:58	Link #4
judasmartel Senior Member Author Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines	Hm. Except that the villains are smart as well. I specifically stated that the villain must be MORE PHYSICALLY STRONG THAN INTELLIGENT because I am tired of Idiot Heroes so I want to see a smart hero pitted against a physically strong villain. Mortal Kombat, for example, has Shao Kahn. I want a villain like that. Physically strong yet not necessarily dumb.

2012-01-08, 19:29	Link #5
GreatTeacherKen Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: California	The manga Jojo's Bizarre Adventure is pretty much what you want although the villains are quite smart as well as being strong. All of the protagonists (each story arc has a different protagonist and villain) are very clever and resourceful. Each story arc in the series fits the bill, and the fights tend to involve characters using their powers in clever ways.

2012-01-08, 21:26	Link #6
Niji Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006	Jyu Oh Sei might work. Main is smart, and has to grow strong, too. Adversaries count on strength. Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagaan might count. The hero is smart, but also strong (not from outset, gotta let it develop some epis). The villains are strong but also a bit smart (one guy at least). Utawarerumono I think. Though the hero turns out to be not only smart towards the end at least Evangelion might count. The lead is not stupid, is backed up by some super smart peeps, and the villain is strong indeed. Well, the obvious villain. The other guy (not sure whether to count him good or bad, though he is on the good side. Or is he?) is smart too. Lead is a bit wimpy though hm, not really the hero type. I dont know whether important, but kinda side chars count. If so, Madlax might work. Some on the good side are quite smart to very smart. Heroine is smart and strong. But the villains are smart too, but rely alot on strength, IIRC.

2012-01-08, 21:57	Link #7
judasmartel Senior Member Author Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines	Ah, great. Good thing I have already started with TTGL. But I'm on Awesomeness Withdrawal at the moment, so it would take a while before I start watching it again. I thought about this, the Suikoden 2 Radio Drama actually fits, as one of its baddies can actually beat sound strategies with just pure brawn. Thanks for the suggestions, but I appreciate it if there are more of those.

2012-01-08, 22:31	Link #8
Soliloquy 絶対領域に嵌り過ぎた。 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Trendy Backwater Age: 38	Isn't Berserk like what you described and Claymore as well? The only problem is that there are several villains in both series. If I think about it, some shonen anime has what you are looking for like Yu Yu Hakusho, maybe Fairy Tail. I want to ask you are you only looking for Anime or manga as well?

2012-01-09, 03:06	Link #9
judasmartel Senior Member Author Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines	Anime or Manga, doesn't matter. Smart Hero vs Strong Hammy Villain.

2012-01-22, 10:34	Link #11
judasmartel Senior Member Author Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines	Hm. I'm settling for TTGL atm. Death Note, it would be nice to read mind games for a while. It seems my intellectual side is getting rusty nowadays. There's a reason why I liked heroes who can do so many ways with the only hammer that they have without getting too bland. I see it's pretty tough to write a "smarter-hero-athletic-villain" story because the hero's quality depends on the quality of the villain. Therefore, if the villain isn't worth his salt, then so is the hero. It's just that it seems like the world hates smart people so much that they can't write smart guy heroes without having them lean over the dark side a bit. It's as if being intelligent is evil.

2012-01-22, 21:18	Link #13
judasmartel Senior Member Author Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines	That's really a problem, isn't it? I just felt so bad that some people associate intellect with being evil or being part of the dark side. It's as if being smart means evil. BTW, I don't have any problem reading mind games because the plot resolution almost always comes down to who outwits who. And when that happens, it's almost guaranteed to be awesome.

2012-01-24, 01:18	Link #15
judasmartel Senior Member Author Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines	Sort of. It has been my sickness lately.

2012-03-02, 23:35	Link #16
judasmartel Senior Member Author Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines	So, is it really so bad that smart guys are almost always portrayed as evil, lazy, jerkass, or just a plain good guy who leans to the dark side a little bit? I mean, can't we have a smart guy who DOES NOT have to lean over the dark side to win?

2012-04-26, 00:41	Link #17
judasmartel Senior Member Author Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines	Sorry to necro this thread, but is it true that Intelligence = Evil?

2012-04-29, 22:39	Link #18
kuroishinigami Ava courtesy of patchy Join Date: Jan 2009	Not really, but usually intelligent = realist, and realist = a little dark even if their intent is as goos as idealist people. As for suggestion, can't think of any right now beside to aru majutsu no index, but the hero is more like street smart instead of intelligent. There's a lot of intelligent hero, but when you have smart hero, the villian are usually more smart than strong. I will recommend liar game though when you feel like reading great battle of wit.

2012-04-29, 23:01	Link #20
judasmartel Senior Member Author Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines	Oh my bad. But oh well. At least smart guys from the good side get to be Mission Control.