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Birdway · 2014-03-26, 12:52

Lancers' curse will never fade away.

Cherry_Lover · 2014-03-26, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDB

This is one of the most common complaints I remember hearing about Fate/Zero. It took until episode 11 for any Servant to die, and even then it was only the completely shallow Assassin. It wasn't until episode 15 that a prominent Servant, Caster, died, which was after the first cour's break.

Yeah, that's what you get when you try to develop everyone. You can't kill anyone until halfway through the story....

Quote:

Originally Posted by hlavajda

Thats true but even in UBW he gets screwed over. He was shown as total badass and bro but gets ultimately killed by command spell. He deserved proper death in fight onscreen.

Sure, and the same pretty much applies to Caster, but at least they get significant involvement in the story.

Sansker · 2014-03-26, 15:06

Well I like to think characters are elements of the story that should not be used for shock and just kill them, if they have to die better have reasons beyond “Who could go next?” If we can’t form any connection to the characters the deaths are pointless and if we do then the death is important. In Zero they did try to make that feeling for almost each Master and Servant team. I really didn’t mind it took so long for anyone to die.

Also I think the one who gets more screw over is Assassin, not Lancer. I mean first he is a fake then True Assassin comes from his bones and he is pretty much a side note for later, back in Zero the Assassin didn’t have a character to talk about. And they are often describing as the weakest of the Servants that nobody cares about.

Cherry_Lover · 2014-03-26, 17:43

The problem is that any war-related story does need cannon fodder. Otherwise it just comes across as unrealistic. If no-one ever dies then it seems like a joke war.

Brother Coa · 2014-03-26, 17:57

Well to be completely honest Holy Grail war is not a real war in sense.
It is merely a contest, nothing more.

GDB · 2014-03-26, 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

The problem is that any war-related story does need cannon fodder. Otherwise it just comes across as unrealistic. If no-one ever dies then it seems like a joke war.

See Naruto, where this "huge world war" is happening yet only one named character has died.

Cherry_Lover · 2014-03-26, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

Well to be completely honest Holy Grail war is not a real war in sense.
It is merely a contest, nothing more.

For the masters, maybe, but the system is designed so that 6 out of 7 servants have to die. That seems pretty war-like to me....

GDB · 2014-03-26, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

For the masters, maybe, but the system is designed so that 6 out of 7 servants have to die. That seems pretty war-like to me....

Technically it's designed so 7 out of X have to die.

Cherry_Lover · 2014-03-26, 21:24

Well, it depends what you want.

For the original purpose of reaching Akasha, yes, all 7 servants need to die. However, by the time of the fifth war, precisely no-one involved in the war knows and cares about the original purpose. Zouken has forgotten it entirely and just wants immortality (and neither Sakura nor Shinji have been told anything more than "you have to fight in this war, if you win you get a wish"), Rin doesn't have a clue because her father never taught her anything beyond the basics and Ilya is the grail, so even if she wins she gets nothing but the glory of victory. And, for any wish aside from reaching Akasha, 6 servants is enough.

Sansker · 2014-03-26, 22:43

Yeah, that kind of downplays the whole war. Almost all of the Masters and Servants don’t want the damn thing. A lot of them state that they don’t have a wish or that they don’t really care. So, why are they even fighting for it? Just go out and say it and get it over. Is not like the Servants actually die since they are dead already and the Masters can stay alive. In Zero at least most of them had a wish or plans for the Grail.

Ok, I am not serious about that… but is a fun way to look at it.

Back to the original idea, yes, in war people dies but just putting people to kill them off right away is kind of pointless. In a battle like the Grail War each death should change something, elevate the stakes or at least move the others. Not just get rid of the problem and forget about it. But we shall see how they handle that here.

Touko · 2014-04-02, 04:25

Your view shows that you need to read the VN/novel at a deeper level.

The Magi are essentially arcane scientists. Why do physicist care about the Big Bang and Black Holes? They are far removed from daily affairs. However, scientists still study these concepts just for the sake of understanding the World.

Similarly, Magi seem to do useless things like fighting in Grail Wars and questing for the Root just for better understanding of things.

As to why people like Rin and Kayneth do it, it is just a matter of vain pride. "I do this because I can/want to".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sansker

Yeah, that kind of downplays the whole war. Almost all of the Masters and Servants don’t want the damn thing.

They ALL DO.

They may not be aware, but all of them desire it at least subconsciously. The Grail does not just choose random mooks. It is a sophisticated piece of arcane machinery.

Brother Coa · 2014-04-02, 04:43

O boy... here we go again...
Another 5 pages of Fate universe debate until we actually read some new info about the new anime....
Can you please move this subject into FaQ and debate there instead in "Pre-Air Speculation/Spoiler Thread for new anime"?

GDB · 2014-04-02, 10:05

The FAQ isn't a dumping ground for conversations and debates.

Brother Coa · 2014-04-02, 11:04

In a way it is, until it is determined who gave the right answer in the end anyway...
But GDB is right, you have general discussion thread for F/SN so discuss there.

blitz1/2 · 2014-04-02, 11:10

Did Ufotable give us anything for April's fools?

Brother Coa · 2014-04-02, 11:16

There was something about Nero and her personal video diary.
But it is private video now. And it was quite funny even without translation.

Kanon · 2014-04-02, 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Did Ufotable give us anything for April's fools?

Red Saber camwhoring and Sacchin getting filmed in her sleep. Nothing related to Fate/Stay Night.

GDB · 2014-04-02, 11:24

Wasn't there also something with Nero and Cast-ko playing Kancolle or something?

Shadow5YA · 2014-04-02, 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

Red Saber camwhoring and Sacchin getting filmed in her sleep. Nothing related to Fate/Stay Night.

There was another video of Red Saber and Casko playing Kantai Collection.

And technically, those were Type-Moon's April Fools jokes. Unfortunately, they were all taken down after April Fools was over.

Ufotable did a beheading cafe with bunny Ryougi.

Kanon · 2014-04-02, 11:28

I missed the Saber and Casko one...

2014-03-26, 15:06	Link #383
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	Well I like to think characters are elements of the story that should not be used for shock and just kill them, if they have to die better have reasons beyond “Who could go next?” If we can’t form any connection to the characters the deaths are pointless and if we do then the death is important. In Zero they did try to make that feeling for almost each Master and Servant team. I really didn’t mind it took so long for anyone to die. Also I think the one who gets more screw over is Assassin, not Lancer. I mean first he is a fake then True Assassin comes from his bones and he is pretty much a side note for later, back in Zero the Assassin didn’t have a character to talk about. And they are often describing as the weakest of the Servants that nobody cares about. __________________

2014-03-26, 17:43	Link #384
Cherry_Lover Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Age: 39	The problem is that any war-related story does need cannon fodder. Otherwise it just comes across as unrealistic. If no-one ever dies then it seems like a joke war. __________________ Come to forums.darksidemoon.net, a new Type-Moon forum.

2014-03-26, 21:24	Link #389
Cherry_Lover Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Age: 39	Well, it depends what you want. For the original purpose of reaching Akasha, yes, all 7 servants need to die. However, by the time of the fifth war, precisely no-one involved in the war knows and cares about the original purpose. Zouken has forgotten it entirely and just wants immortality (and neither Sakura nor Shinji have been told anything more than "you have to fight in this war, if you win you get a wish"), Rin doesn't have a clue because her father never taught her anything beyond the basics and Ilya is the grail, so even if she wins she gets nothing but the glory of victory. And, for any wish aside from reaching Akasha, 6 servants is enough. __________________ Come to forums.darksidemoon.net, a new Type-Moon forum.

2014-03-26, 22:43	Link #390
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	Yeah, that kind of downplays the whole war. Almost all of the Masters and Servants don’t want the damn thing. A lot of them state that they don’t have a wish or that they don’t really care. So, why are they even fighting for it? Just go out and say it and get it over. Is not like the Servants actually die since they are dead already and the Masters can stay alive. In Zero at least most of them had a wish or plans for the Grail. Ok, I am not serious about that… but is a fun way to look at it. Back to the original idea, yes, in war people dies but just putting people to kill them off right away is kind of pointless. In a battle like the Grail War each death should change something, elevate the stakes or at least move the others. Not just get rid of the problem and forget about it. But we shall see how they handle that here. __________________

2014-04-02, 11:10	Link #395
blitz1/2 Tenshi's Defense Squadron Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Fighting against those who oppress the system	Did Ufotable give us anything for April's fools? __________________ hai, hai. Onii-chan has his work cut out for him.

2014-03-26, 12:52	Link #381
Birdway Banned Join Date: Jul 2012	Lancers' curse will never fade away.

2014-03-26, 17:57	Link #385
Brother Coa Banned Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Holy Terra	Well to be completely honest Holy Grail war is not a real war in sense. It is merely a contest, nothing more.

2014-04-02, 04:43	Link #392
Brother Coa Banned Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Holy Terra	O boy... here we go again... Another 5 pages of Fate universe debate until we actually read some new info about the new anime.... Can you please move this subject into FaQ and debate there instead in "Pre-Air Speculation/Spoiler Thread for new anime"?

2014-04-02, 10:05	Link #393
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	The FAQ isn't a dumping ground for conversations and debates.

2014-04-02, 11:04	Link #394
Brother Coa Banned Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Holy Terra	In a way it is, until it is determined who gave the right answer in the end anyway... But GDB is right, you have general discussion thread for F/SN so discuss there.

2014-04-02, 11:16	Link #396
Brother Coa Banned Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Holy Terra	There was something about Nero and her personal video diary. But it is private video now. And it was quite funny even without translation.

2014-04-02, 11:24	Link #398
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	Wasn't there also something with Nero and Cast-ko playing Kancolle or something?

2014-04-02, 11:28	Link #400
Kanon Kana Hanazawa ♥ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: France Age: 37	I missed the Saber and Casko one... __________________