[Manga] Chapter 241 Discussion

[DangerousOne]

Whats all this talk about sexism?

Hinata is strong and cant really be seen as a weak link. She lost against neji but except for Gaara - who wouldnt have at the time? She could probably beat Kiba during that exam considering Kiba couldnt even handle a sealed up Naruto.

Temari - not even gonna bother with this one.

Ten Ten - she fought Temari, alot of the other male genins ould have had trouble with her then yet alone now.

Sakura - yea shes weak and useless.

Ino - replica of Sakura.

So during the preliminary exam ranks:

1)Gaara
2)Neji
3)Lee
4)Shikimaru
5)Temari
6)Sasuke
7)Shino
8)Kankuro
9)Ten Ten
10)Hinata
11)Naruto
12)Kiba
13)Chouji
14)Ino
15)Sakura

Take away Ino & Sakura and its not really too bad.

[kwanseemun]

ummm....hanabi isn't considered the genius of the clan....that would be neji - she surpasses hinata because hinata is too shy and non confrontational which can make her weak, as well, hinata's father considers hinata to be weak

[Anthriel]

Originally Posted by DangerousOne

1)Gaara
2)Neji
3)Lee
4)Shikimaru
5)Temari
6)Sasuke
7)Shino
8)Kankuro
9)Ten Ten
10)Hinata
11)Naruto
12)Kiba
13)Chouji
14)Ino
15)Sakura

What's your reason for rating Temari and Shikamaru higher than Shino and Kankuro? And why the hell did you rate Ten Ten and Hinata above Kiba, Chouji and even Naruto? oO There is no basis for that. No, on the contrary, Kurenai said Hinata messed up missions and her father thought she was weaker than an academy student, therefore, Kiba and Naruto have to be stronger than Hinata. Ten Ten's fight wasn't even shown in the Manga, she is the most unimportant Genin and therefore most likely one of the weakest. Let me fix that list:

1)Gaara
2)Neji
3)Lee
4)Temari
4)Kankuro
4)Shino
7)Sasuke
8)Shikamaru
9)Kiba
10)Naruto
11)Ten Ten
12)Chouji
13)Hinata
14)Ino
14)Sakura

Yeah, looks great for the girls. One of five (Temari) is among the strongest, the rest is useless.

Let's analyze the teams:
Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura - Sakura is by far the weakest.
Shikamaru, Chouji, Ino - Well, both Chouji and Ino are weak, but Chouji got the broken pills, therefore Ino is the weakest.
Shino, Kiba, Hinata - Well, Kiba and Hinata are both not that strong, but Kiba did show quite a lot of exclusive moves, therefore he is most likely stronger than Hinata.
Neji, Lee, Ten Ten - Ten Ten is by far the weakest.
Dosu, Zaku, Kin - Kin never did anything useful, she was even possesed by Ino.
Kakashi, Obito, Rin - Rin got kindnapped. 'nuff said.
There is just one exception:
Gaara, Kankuro, Temari - Gaara is the best, but we don't really now if Temari is stronger than Kankuro. For all we know, they are tied.

Yay, out of six teams, the female members are clearly the weakest in four teams, in two teams, they are tied, or almost tied for the second place.
Go go go female Genins! All they can do is arranging flowers and serving tea. The strongest female has also the biggest boobs. The only female in Naruto that defies sexism is Temari, the only one that won a fight against a male (well, kind of), without help from males.

[Kayess]

[QUOTE=Anthriel] Ten Ten's fight wasn't even shown in the Manga, she is the most unimportant Genin and therefore most likely one of the weakest. Let me fix that list:
QUOTE]

Unimportant and weakest do not go hand in hand. According to the naruto character book.. she is stronger than quite a few of the genin.

[ninja massacre]

[QUOTE=Kayess]

Originally Posted by Anthriel

Ten Ten's fight wasn't even shown in the Manga, she is the most unimportant Genin and therefore most likely one of the weakest. Let me fix that list:
QUOTE]

Unimportant and weakest do not go hand in hand. According to the naruto character book.. she is stronger than quite a few of the genin.

yeah, even though we don't see her fight in the manga, she seems to be a wise girl and felt pretty confident about the chuunin exam.
That must mean something...

[DangerousOne]

Originally Posted by Anthriel

What's your reason for rating Temari and Shikamaru higher than Shino and Kankuro? And why the hell did you rate Ten Ten and Hinata above Kiba, Chouji and even Naruto? oO There is no basis for that. No, on the contrary, Kurenai said Hinata messed up missions and her father thought she was weaker than an academy student, therefore, Kiba and Naruto have to be stronger than Hinata. Ten Ten's fight wasn't even shown in the Manga, she is the most unimportant Genin and therefore most likely one of the weakest. Let me fix that list:

1)Gaara
2)Neji
3)Lee
4)Temari
4)Kankuro
4)Shino
7)Sasuke
8)Shikamaru
9)Kiba
10)Naruto
11)Ten Ten
12)Chouji
13)Hinata
14)Ino
14)Sakura

Yeah, looks great for the girls. One of five (Temari) is among the strongest, the rest is useless.

Let's analyze the teams:
Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura - Sakura is by far the weakest.
Shikamaru, Chouji, Ino - Well, both Chouji and Ino are weak, but Chouji got the broken pills, therefore Ino is the weakest.
Shino, Kiba, Hinata - Well, Kiba and Hinata are both not that strong, but Kiba did show quite a lot of exclusive moves, therefore he is most likely stronger than Hinata.
Neji, Lee, Ten Ten - Ten Ten is by far the weakest.
Dosu, Zaku, Kin - Kin never did anything useful, she was even possesed by Ino.
Kakashi, Obito, Rin - Rin got kindnapped. 'nuff said.
There is just one exception:
Gaara, Kankuro, Temari - Gaara is the best, but we don't really now if Temari is stronger than Kankuro. For all we know, they are tied.

Yay, out of six teams, the female members are clearly the weakest in four teams, in two teams, they are tied, or almost tied for the second place.
Go go go female Genins! All they can do is arranging flowers and serving tea. The strongest female has also the biggest boobs. The only female in Naruto that defies sexism is Temari, the only one that won a fight against a male (well, kind of), without help from males.

Ten Ten's fight wasnt in the manga but seing as how it was in the anime and seemed to have portrayed her character very well, Kishimoto must have at least approved the fight.

My reason for rating Shiki above Shino & Kankuro is because the guy is pretty damm smart. Temari couldnt handle him and I doubt the other 2 could either.

Why Hinata over Naruto, Kiba & Chouji? Well let me see:

VS Naruto - Naruto sealed up. When he fought Kiba, hes skills was very basic and even had trouble producing kage bunshins. Kiba simply beat him up and well, he got lucky with a fart. With hinata's gentle fist once she disables Naruto, theres not gonna be any kyubi leaking out to save him cos of the oro seal. Naruto relied on pure basic Taijutsu during that match, Kiba didnt really have any killer blows to put him away so he could only beat him up. Hinata however can shut him down, gentle fist to the heart wouldnt be too dificult since Naruto taijutsu skills really lacks.

To make this clearer, just imagine Naruto fighting Neji without using Kage bunshin and Kyubi. Hed be finished in an instant as his Taijutsu does not compare, and during the preliminaries, that was Naruto's only weapon. Hinata is no neji but whats the actual difference? 64 hands of hakke, Kaiten better technique. Her taijutsu skill may not be as good as Neji's but its good enough for Naruto.

VS Kiba - Well this guy was in the same league as Naruto, you wanna know how he would loose look above.

VS Chouji - I cant see Chouji doing much either, his another taijutsu and cant really do much against the gentle fist. His rolling attack would be hes only chance but could he hit Hinata with that? Also whos to say Hinata cant simply dodge the attack then hit him with gentle fist and still do damage to him.

[zamme]

Originally Posted by DangerousOne

My reason for rating Shiki above Shino & Kankuro is because the guy is pretty damm smart. Temari couldnt handle him and I doubt the other 2 could either.

Why Hinata over Naruto, Kiba & Chouji? Well let me see:

VS Naruto - Naruto sealed up. When he fought Kiba, hes skills was very basic and even had trouble producing kage bunshins. Kiba simply beat him up and well, he got lucky with a fart. With hinata's gentle fist once she disables Naruto, theres not gonna be any kyubi leaking out to save him cos of the oro seal. Naruto relied on pure basic Taijutsu during that match, Kiba didnt really have any killer blows to put him away so he could only beat him up. Hinata however can shut him down, gentle fist to the heart wouldnt be too dificult since Naruto taijutsu skills really lacks.

Kiba would have blown Naruto to pieces if it wasnt for the Kyubi in the prelim. matches. Of course, the chakraflow had been sealed by Oro and complicated his chakra release, but you cant forget an important piece. He STILL has the inhuman regeneration rate. That's why he got up after the heavy attacks that Kiba dealt him. If he didnt have the Kyubi regeneration, he would probably be down after that first strike by Kiba. Or, at least when he smashed him with the Gatsuuga.

I kind of agree with the list above, however I would make some alterations..

1)Gaara
2)Neji
3)Lee
4)Sasuke
5)Shino
6)Kankuro - Dosu
7)Temari
8)Kiba - Zaku
9)Ten Ten - Naruto
10)Shikamaru - Kin
11)Hinata - Ino - Sakura - Chouji

[Ero-Sennin]

Damn.

Female ninjas being weaker than male ones is just an observation. It's not sexist at all. What is wrong with you people? Do you have some obligation to defend the female race even when they are not being attacked?

It is a generalization, but a correct one at that.

As people have said, the only strong female characters I can think of are Tsunade, Shizune, and Temari.

Even then, they are not that strong compared to their counter parts.

Tsunade had a crucial weakness and got her ass kicked by Kabuto, Orochimaru's servant.

Shizune, no comment.

Temari, I guess, is stronger than most genin.

[Anthriel]

Originally Posted by Ero-Sennin

Female ninjas being weaker than male ones is just an observation. It's not sexist at all. What is wrong with you people? Do you have some obligation to defend the female race even when they are not being attacked?

An observation? How many ninja have you observed in your life? Zero? Thought so.
It's a fantasy series, therefore, females don't have to be physically weaker than males. That's why Tsunades is the physically strongest character in the show. However, it's not just like female Genin would be inferior in taijutsu, they are also weaker in areas that don't have anything to do with gender, ninjutsu for example. Why are they weaker than the males? Because the show is aimed at boys, boys identify with the male characters (most likely with Naruto), they want to protect the girls, not the other way round. Therefore, the girls have to be weaker than the boys.

[Seiken]

.... can we make a new chapter 241 thread without all this boy vs. girl nonsense?

obviously, the answer is no and I'm being sarcastic....

Just trying to make a point: I thought the chap 241 thread was supposed to be about chap 241, not the apparent sexism in this and/or all Naruto chapters and/or every other manga and/or how it relates to the real world.

[Animizzle]

Originally Posted by Seiken

.... can we make a new chapter 241 thread without all this boy vs. girl nonsense?

obviously, the answer is no and I'm being sarcastic....

Just trying to make a point: I thought the chap 241 thread was supposed to be about chap 241, not the apparent sexism in this and/or all Naruto chapters and/or every other manga and/or how it relates to the real world.

If something was more interesting then the current discussion, we would have discussed that. Obviously there is not, so untill you come with someting more interesting...

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Ero-Sennin

Damn.

Female ninjas being weaker than male ones is just an observation. It's not sexist at all. What is wrong with you people? Do you have some obligation to defend the female race even when they are not being attacked?

Female... race?
Is that a parapraxis?

[stylez]

This thread is named episode 241. If u guys gonna talk about sexcism, make a frigging new thread=P

[nh1]

Then what are we going to talk about in this thread? ><

If you want to discuss something else, then bring it up.

[stylez]

I hope vi we will see more of Yondaime=) Really eager to see him fight a bit more=)

[Last of the Uchiha]

I got good/bad news. For those who want this gaiden to last at least 12 chapters, it might be impossible. For those those who want this gaiden to end soon, it will be very possible. Kishimoto planned a 6 chapters for this gaiden. although it might extend a little bit if he can't finished it in six chapter. This might be good, if ypu remember Rurounin Kenshin the Sanosuke's gaiden, where Nobuhiro planned 4-6 chapters, and it took him like 12 -13 chapter in order to complete that gaiden.

[Alchemist]

Originally Posted by Last of the Uchiha

I got good/bad news. For those who want this gaiden to last at least 12 chapters, it might be impossible. For those those who want this gaiden to end soon, it will be very possible. Kishimoto planned a 6 chapters for this gaiden. although it might extend a little bit if he can't finished it in six chapter. This might be good, if ypu remember Rurounin Kenshin the Sanosuke's gaiden, where Nobuhiro planned 4-6 chapters, and it took him like 12 -13 chapter in order to complete that gaiden.

Where did you get that info from?

[Animizzle]

That's good to hear LOTU, as much as I like this gaiden (altho it's not really a gaiden since it concerns the storyline) It's good to know it won't last that long and we can get back to the original timeline.

oh and Alchemist, just take his word for it :x

[Alchemist]

Well if that is true then I guess I'm a bit disappointed. I guess now obito will get a 3-dotted sharingan in at least one eye pretty soon and we'll see how it'll end up with kakashi.

The good thing is that we'll see naruto all grow up sooner then we thought. XD

Originally Posted by Animizzle

oh and Alchemist, just take his word for it :x

Geez, just asking.

[hiko]

Originally Posted by Last of the Uchiha

I got good/bad news. For those who want this gaiden to last at least 12 chapters, it might be impossible. For those those who want this gaiden to end soon, it will be very possible. Kishimoto planned a 6 chapters for this gaiden. although it might extend a little bit if he can't finished it in six chapter. This might be good, if ypu remember Rurounin Kenshin the Sanosuke's gaiden, where Nobuhiro planned 4-6 chapters, and it took him like 12 -13 chapter in order to complete that gaiden.

Everyone's expecting light to be shed on how Kakashi obtained his Sharingan but if his intention was 6chapters then I can't see that happening now. The question now is whether the sole purpose was just to introduce Obito and flesh Kaki out more or could this Gaiden also serve as an introduction for a new villain/Akatsuki member with a big bad Stone Nin appearing by the end of it's run?

I'm just wondering if we'll see something introduced here that will lead into upcoming arcs. So far I don't think we have.