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Old 2009-04-15, 11:55   Link #1
chibamonster
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Teresa vs. Priscilla: What Really Happened?

Teresa's fight with Priscilla ended in a decisive manner. But what led to this final conclusion? How does this fight impact the Claymore Universe? Analyze the sequence of events, character thoughts, words, actions, reactions and any other information you find relevant the to help us come to a conclusion on what brought about final outcome of the fight between Priscilla and Teresa and how this outcome effects the world of Claymore.

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Old 2009-04-15, 12:12   Link #2
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Thanks moderators for putting this thread together!
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Old 2009-04-15, 12:30   Link #3
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We have a VS thread? It's not a late april fool? :O

When I was reading Pure Yoki vs rest of the fandom discussion about Teresa death, I've found that reason for most of disagreements is a bad translation. So I'd like to ask, whose scanlation (group name, not link) is the best.
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Old 2009-04-15, 12:32   Link #4
germanturkey
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How does this fight impact the Claymore Universe?

lets just say, if the outcome had been the other way around, we wouldn't have the Claymore..

anyways, the conclusion came about because of Clare. Teresa didn't feel the need to kill anymore because her time with Clare taught her something else other than killing she had learned since she became a claymore. Teresa didn't kill Priscilla when she had the chance (because of the above reason) and because of that, a young and confused Pris went apeshit and tried to get round two, which she also lost. a somewhat nicer Teresa tried to help her turn back, rather than slice her down, which ultimately led to her death.

either way, they killed the best character in the the claymore universe.
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Old 2009-04-15, 12:45   Link #5
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I figured that Teresa died because at the final moment she put her attention on Clare and when she was looking away, Priscilla chopped off her hands then her head once Teresa looked back and noticed that she had messed up. I don't have much to say about this, I am not much of a Teresa fan and I actually kind of like Priscilla. (and by saying that everyone will probably hate me now)
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Old 2009-04-15, 12:54   Link #6
MisterJB
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Ah we finally got one.

In this scene, she doesn't seem to be looking to Clare. I think she simply lowered her guard and her Yoki (the eyes aren't even golden anymore)

Spoiler for manga page:
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Old 2009-04-15, 13:00   Link #7
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We won't hate you for that Hell. Many of us have become friends on this site, even if we don't see eye to eye on every Debate. And this one, Teresa vs. Priscilla, there have been good arguments put forth by both sides. Both viewpoints are valid, because both Teresa and Priscilla were monsters with the colossus power they had within. Honestly, I don't think the org had any way of measuring it, and had to rely on guesstimation. Priscilla was too inexperience; Teresa had lost her edge, learning how to feel sympathy thanks to Clare.
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Old 2009-04-15, 13:03   Link #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJB View Post
Ah we finally got one.

In this scene, she doesn't seem to be looking to Clare. I think she simply lowered her guard and her Yoki (the eyes aren't even golden anymore)]
I think that Priscilla reminded Teresa of Clare for some reason, and thus allowed her feelings of regret and sympathy to lower her guard, something she would've never done if she hadn't met Clare.
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Old 2009-04-15, 13:13   Link #9
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I think the dispute about Teresa vs. Priscilla is pointless by now, it has been discussed countless times in different threads or groups; everyone has their opinion, I think bringing this thread might flare up the fights between the Teresa 'worshipers' and everyone else lol.

But back on topic, the way I see it Teresa died 'cause she was careless, she wasn't paying enough attention to what was happening, Priscilla took the chance and got lucky, sadly...And how her death impacted the claymore world, well let's see:

1) If she hadn't died we wouldn't have had our lead char, right? lol
2) The events leading to her death also led to the awakening of Priscilla, who is supposed to be the most powerful AB in the claymore world;
3) After she awakened Priscilla caused some major changes in power in the claymore world, her impact with Easley, you can say that it partially led to the war in the north; and maybe that Priscilla being so powerful caused the organization to focus and try to make their "soul link" experiment successful even harder than they did before.

I guess a lot of things happened directly or partially 'cause of Teresa's death in the claymore world.
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Old 2009-04-15, 13:31   Link #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BishounoTeresa View Post
I think the dispute about Teresa vs. Priscilla is pointless by now, it has been discussed countless times in different threads or groups; everyone has their opinion, I think bringing this thread might flare up the fights between the Teresa 'worshipers' and everyone else lol.

But back on topic, the way I see it Teresa died 'cause she was careless, she wasn't paying enough attention to what was happening, Priscilla took the chance and got lucky, sadly...And how her death impacted the claymore world, well let's see:

1) If she hadn't died we wouldn't have had our lead char, right? lol
2) The events leading to her death also led to the awakening of Priscilla, who is supposed to be the most powerful AB in the claymore world;
3) After she awakened Priscilla caused some major changes in power in the claymore world, her impact with Easley, you can say that it partially led to the war in the north; and maybe that Priscilla being so powerful caused the organization to focus and try to make their "soul link" experiment successful even harder than they did before.

I guess a lot of things happened directly or partially 'cause of Teresa's death in the claymore world.
I think the same about this. To me I don't think Teresa was that important (well she was as she was a number one and a very powerful one at that), I think I have said this before but the arc that introduces her and Clare is just to show us how much pain Clare is in mentally later as she keeps living her life, and it introduces us to Irene who helps Clare later on as well. It also shows us how Priscilla became to be and links the story to why Clare is so revengeful. Plus we might not have been able to see most of the other characters that have shown up in the story if Teresa lived. If she lived she would have probably destroyed the organization herself stopping them from creating anymore experiments.
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Old 2009-04-15, 13:46   Link #11
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Oh Teresa is very important. You yourself introduce how Teresa was important. Without that chapter, Clare would've been more of a two dimensional character. Clare is cold on the outside and aflame on the inside, and without that arc, we would've only see the one side. Teresa also makes a greek tragic hero out of Priscilla. She shows us both the monster and human sides of a Claymore, and how some Claymores think differently from regular humans. And Teresa wasn't that important, she wouldn't have such a huge fan club either.
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Old 2009-04-15, 13:51   Link #12
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Yes but if Teresa wasn't around Clare wouldn't have her flesh and blood in her, and maybe she wouldn't be a claymore now anyway. I was at a good point telling that if she lived, if she lived she would have slowly destroyed the organization, stopping them from doing anymore experiments which means other characters like Miria probably wouldn't have appeared and found out about the dragon-kin(if they actually are dragons that is) which would leave a huge blank spot on the story because we would probably never find out about where yoma come from and what the scars look like and where the swords are from even know we know where the swords material is from. (because I think we will find out about that stuff eventually)

Teresa's fan club is full of a bunch of people that can't get over her death, and perverts. Just kidding.
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Old 2009-04-15, 13:58   Link #13
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You really think that Teresa could've toppled the org, if Abyssal One of the North Isley couldn't? I'm not so sure how Teresa would've fared against the ZACS.
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Old 2009-04-15, 13:59   Link #14
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When you say that, I don't think Easley ever even bothered with trying to fight the org, he made them fear him in a way, only until they created the ZACS. I think Teresa would have destroyed the org long before the ZACS were even thought up.

Now if only we could have a thread about Jean, it would be perfect.

Last edited by hell88; 2009-04-15 at 14:14.
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Old 2009-04-15, 15:06   Link #15
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A whole thread over this? She just put her guard down and was surprised. I watched the anime before reading the manga and when I watched it for the first time my jaw was on the ground in shock. No one saw that coming, no one. It was one of the biggest shocks ever seen/read in an anime/manga.
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Old 2009-04-15, 18:02   Link #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJB View Post
Ah we finally got one.

In this scene, she doesn't seem to be looking to Clare. I think she simply lowered her guard and her Yoki (the eyes aren't even golden anymore)

Spoiler for manga page:
First off I agree, it's only in the anime where she looks back at Clare and the others. So her eyes where on Priscilla in the manga. (I really don't mind that change in the anime because it added more weight to Ilene's comments to Clare latter.)

However are you saying that because she lowered her guard, she decided to lower her power and her lower power level resulted in her not sensing the sudden sneak attack in time to react. Or are you saying that by being at a lower power level she had less reaction time to the attack and her detracted mind didn't fully process everything that was going on quick enough to react, sadly resulting in her death. Both fit Ilene's comments, i think... Since Ilene could have been saying the old Teresa's would never have lowered her power level and just killed her or the old Teresa would have never have hesitated before killing her. (I think the latter fits more but that's my opinion.)

Also this makes me wonder if Priscilla fully planned on moving her hand closer to her claymore or whether it was the awakened part of her mind that did it and the human side of her mind had no clue what was about to happen. I don't honestly know and have always wondered about it.

As to the Clare weakening Teresa warrior side, could Teresa have been like this before she meet Clare. After all with Rosemary, Teresa seemed very relieved that she would be fighting an awakened being rather than a Claymore (she later even more relieved to learn that she wasn't too late, since Rosemary had awakened before she sent her the black card). I personally believe that Clare did weaken her warriors resolve but as to how much I'm not so sure, Teresa could already have been leaning that way for some time.

Personally I'm very glad Teresa died in the story
; it was very shocking, it changed the dynamic of the show from being about weak Yoma to Awakened Beings, added tons of depth to Clare, has continued to motivate the plot to this point, it really made me want more Claymore, it explained why Clare took in Raki, plus it made me love the character of Teresa (I fear I would have gotten bored with her, if her and Clare stayed together for too long. Plus her being alive now would have made battles to easy. Need help call Teresa. Isley is planning something, call Teresa. Riful's captured someone, call Teresa.). However I miss Teresa a lot now... and of course at the moment it first happened I hated it...
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Old 2009-04-15, 20:09   Link #17
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We have a VS thread? It's not a late april fool? :O

When I was reading Pure Yoki vs rest of the fandom discussion about Teresa death, I've found that reason for most of disagreements is a bad translation. So I'd like to ask, whose scanlation (group name, not link) is the best.
I'm not sure there have been any scanlations of those volumes. IIRC, 10sigh started around volume 4 or 5. The manga-sketchbook stuff is basically a rip off from the official Viz release, I think.
If you need specific sections looked at, I have the raws, and I'll be happy to clear up anything on the subject.
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Old 2009-04-15, 20:19   Link #18
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I think the dispute about Teresa vs. Priscilla is pointless by now, it has been discussed countless times in different threads or groups;
Oh, I disagree - it's very important. It's one of the foundational building blocks of the manga. Claymore is a manga with very strong characters. The events in this fight were the primary influence on 2 of both Clare and Pricilla. It's not possible to rationally discuss topics relating to either, without it having roots in the events of the Teresa and Pricilla fight.

One of the things that I wonder about is how Pricilla being spared by Teresa influenced her. Do you guys think that seeing Teresa and Clare, Pricilla's actions toward Raki could have been affected? That she regrets what she's done? That she finally remembers even?

As long as Pricilla and Clare are around, this topic will not die.

Quote:
everyone has their opinion, I think bringing this thread might flare up the fights between the Teresa 'worshipers' and everyone else lol.
Hopefully it'll stay contained in this thread now, rather than infecting every other thread.
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Old 2009-04-15, 23:34   Link #19
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I don't think Priscilla remembers really well what happened back at the Teresa and Clare arc. Does she?

Teresa has extraordinary skill and she would have remained the strongest. One thing I've thought of is that Priscilla would become stronger than Teresa if she fixed her mindset. Probably if she became more mature and more normal, she would have become stronger in the long run, but maybe there would also be an instance where she wouldn't be able to beome stronger than Teresa because of her failure to think right.
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Old 2009-04-16, 01:50   Link #20
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Oh, I disagree - it's very important. It's one of the foundational building blocks of the manga. Claymore is a manga with very strong characters. The events in this fight were the primary influence on 2 of both Clare and Pricilla. It's not possible to rationally discuss topics relating to either, without it having roots in the events of the Teresa and Pricilla fight.
Agreed

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Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
One of the things that I wonder about is how Pricilla being spared by Teresa influenced her. Do you guys think that seeing Teresa and Clare, Pricilla's actions toward Raki could have been affected? That she regrets what she's done? That she finally remembers even?
Please note all the is only my opinion and I'm not putting forth a long argument for it. I'm just mentioning what I think happened.

The first reaction to being spared was shock, the second was rage. Since in her naive notions about being the good guy got a huge slap in the face. Add that to her boiling blood, she just didn't think straight and clung to her old belief. All the while powering up, eventually she just lost control and charged after Teresa. In short she refused to accept the fact that she might be the bad guy here.

Long after the fight I have a feeling what remained of her humanity couldn't accept what she had done. So her humanity amplified the minor regression she had earlier. Eventually this ate away at her mental capacities until she meet Raki. As to what she thinks now I don't know but maybe Teresa taking in Clare has something to do with it or maybe because he showed her kindness, all that was left of her humanity clung everything on him; hopes, desires, desire for forgiveness, and her regret (hence why she's not eating, also to make sure Raki doesn't get mad at her).

I've wondered what will happen when Clare and Priscilla meet up again. Too much depends on circumstance but if Clare doesn't just attack and says why shes about to (or wants to) kill Priscilla, one of my countless thoughts was Priscilla will just breakdown and cry her eyes out, maybe even beg for forgiveness. Who knows how Clare will react to that, after all she saw Priscilla crying on her hands and knees right before she killed Priscilla. Plus Clare is some what damaged herself...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
As long as Pricilla and Clare are around, this topic will not die.
Not true, we will talk about it for along time after the fact. Hopefully saying that the way it was concluded was brilliant!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
Hopefully it'll stay contained in this thread now, rather than infecting every other thread.
I suspect quick talks will arise if someone uses Teresa vs Priscilla in a discussion to make another point and someone else disagrees. However, hopefully we can get them to move that aspect of the debate here.
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