Madoka Magica - General Discussion

[Deconstructor]

Originally Posted by Solace

I do not want to see an ending that can be summed up as "They struggled and struggled to change their fates, but in the end they lost, nothing was changed, and the villain got away with it. The End." We already saw that multiple times in episode 10, and seeing it again is not interesting.

While I share the sentiment, I wish to keep the possibility open for the ending. Sure, the same concept may get boring once repeated ad nauseum. However, episode 10 displayed the same grim reality in exactly four different timelines, each with their own unique differences. I quite enjoyed episode 10, despite the same ending of each timeline. Maybe the fifth and final time will be even better.

The only ending that will definitely leave me disappointed is a cliffhanger. Unless a lot of thought goes into an unresolved ending, I am quick to accuse the story writers of laziness.

Wow, my posting has considerably tapered off... I already forgot about Madoka and the week isn't even up yet.

[NaweG]

Went and saw SuckerPunch over the weekend. Geez, a movie about a girl in a situation where she keeps doing her battles in fantastical other settings to make things better in the real world with her team of four other girls.

No wonder someone made a MAD of Madoka using that.

What's particularly interesting is how the movie's title comes from a change of perspective near the end of the film that lets us know who the real protagonist was, and gives us a very bittersweet ending.

If I didn't know better, I'd say Gen and Snyder wrote a script, and then one of them decided to do a live action version...

It will be interesting to see if the ending is really that similar (and both are similar to the ending of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest).

[Snork]

when I said it is 'bad ending', it is bad ending for 'US'

Of course, but that's pretty much why we are so nervous about Urobuchi Endings.

I don't want to see an ending that I have already seen in episode 10. I want to see the ending do something different.

Chances are, it will be different, but NOT quite the way you'd want it to be...

[BaKaBaKaOtaKu]

so, is there gonna be madoka this week??!!! please someone tell me yes. T___T i can't take another week without madoka anymore. T___T

[GDB]

The announcement said "middle of April", not "end of March", so it's incredibly doubtful.

[BaKaBaKaOtaKu]

Originally Posted by GDB

The announcement said "middle of April", not "end of March", so it's incredibly doubtful.

shoot man!!! what's wrong with shaft??!!! they did something like this with BMG too. but man, WHY MADOKA HAS TO SUFFER THE SAME??!!!!

*sigh* pardon the caps. i'm just so depressed and frustrated about this continuous delay. T___T

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Solace

I wouldn't be. I don't want to see an ending that I have already seen in episode 10. I want to see the ending do something different. If it's good or bad, oh well, but seeing a "completed" version of an ending we already know about (that Homura's previous loops were futile and this one is too) is just not interesting to me.

Well, if the ending is that Witch Madoka sucks everyone into her personal heaven, is that really such a bad ending?

A lot may depend on how such an ending is executed (how Madoka's personal heaven is displayed on-screen), but it might not necessarily be all that bad, depending on how Gen decides to portray it.

It would render Homura's struggle something of a failure, but at least not entirely inconsequential, as Madoka simply died in Timeline 1. It would mean that the main effect of Homura's struggle is that we get a Witch Madoka end instead.


Like yourself, I suspect, my most hated ending (that I can currently conceive of, at least) would be unending timeloop of hell. As you say, we've already seen examples of a hellish timeloop in Episode 10, so I'd find that a displeasing end in every way.

But if the story ends with the whole world in Witch Madoka's realm, that would be different at least. And, if executed well (which I have little doubt that Gen and SHAFT can do), it might be compelling and thought-provoking.

Kyubey is still Kyubey in the end? That could mean anything. It doesn't automatically equate to a good or bad end.

I agree with you here. It doesn't even necessarily mean that Kyubey stays alive, imo, although I do think he will. All I take from this is that Kyubey's personality will not change.

I do not want to see an ending that can be summed up as "They struggled and struggled to change their fates, but in the end they lost, nothing was changed, and the villain got away with it. The End." We already saw that multiple times in episode 10, and seeing it again is not interesting.

These are probably the two ends I'd dislike:

1. Infinite time loop of hell.

2. Homura and Madoka both die. World goes on as normal. I would prefer this over "Infinite time loop of hell" because at least this ending would have closure to it. However, it would be a sad ending, and it would be like I just watched a 12 episode-long mugging and raping of 5 teenage girls.


I can probably at least live with many other endings, and some I'd be quite pleased with.

[duckroll]

Originally Posted by BaKaBaKaOtaKu

so, is there gonna be madoka this week??!!! please someone tell me yes. T___T i can't take another week without madoka anymore. T___T

No. Madoka is no longer airing. The weekly broadcast is over. There won't be any new Madoka until they make an announcement on the date where they have decided to air the remaining episodes. Madoka's normal broadcast is not on hold, it has been -cancelled-. When they have decided on a new date to finish it, they will announce it. Until then it is not going to happen.

No point asking "is it airing this week?" anymore, because the answer will always be no, until there is a new date announced, at which point everyone should know. They want to air it sometime in April, but there's nothing definite yet.

[applejuice]

Originally Posted by Solace

Kyubey is still Kyubey in the end? That could mean anything. It doesn't automatically equate to a good or bad end.

lol I don't recall saying 'Kyuubey being kyuubey = Bad end' at all... One obvious thing you can possibly get from it is the fact that Kyuubey's 'EVILNEEEESSSS' and Salesman attitude will never change. Definitely not ANYTHING.

[Haak]

I wouldn't hate a never ending loop of evil ending. It would be tragic but I'd consider it tragic rather than just bad.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Haak

I wouldn't hate a never ending loop of evil ending. It would be tragic but I'd consider it tragic rather than just bad.

Such an ending would be redundant after Episode 10.

Beyond that, it would also mean that Homura made a bad situation much, much worse.

Do you really want Homura to be a complete failure like that?

[Snork]

so, is there gonna be madoka this week??!!! please someone tell me yes. T___T i can't take another week without madoka anymore. T___T

there were some tweets around hinting that episode 12 may be finally complete. So, hope springs eternal.

Well, if the ending is that Witch Madoka sucks everyone into her personal heaven, is that really such a bad ending?

TBH, the very fact that they posted Gretchen's profile on the site, revealing her powers and the outcome of her activity... strongly suggests that we won't get such an ending. This would redefine spoilers, really. and you don't need EoE scenario to make a grimdark/bittersweet ending.

But if the story ends with the whole world in Witch Madoka's realm, that would be different at least. And, if executed well (which I have little doubt that Gen and SHAFT can do), it might be compelling and thought-provoking

Especially provoking Shinbo to MAKE that aforementioned second season, after all.

lol I don't recall saying 'Kyuubey being kyuubey = Bad end' at all... One obvious thing you can possibly get from it is the fact that Kyuubey's 'EVILNEEEESSSS' and Salesman attitude will never change. Definitely not ANYTHING.

Honestly, I don't really think it's about Kyuubey anymore. He's played his part.

Beyond that, it would also mean that Homura made a bad situation much, much worse.

Alas, that's what she seems to be doing all along. Of all the previous timelines, timeline 1 actually remains as the relatively BEST ending...
And for all we know, episode 11 may feature Homura being confronted with Madoka's accusations, realising the aforementioned issue and entering a BSoD that will make Sayaka's pale in comparison...

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Snork

there were some tweets around hinting that episode 12 may be finally complete. So, hope springs eternal.



TBH, the very fact that they posted Gretchen's profile on the site, revealing her powers and the outcome of her activity... strongly suggests that we won't get such an ending. This would redefine spoilers, really.

Lots of elements concerning the ending have already been spoiled, due to magazine interviews and the like.

I really don't get the impression that SHAFT is terribly worried about spoiling things right now.

Honestly, I'm starting to lose patience with SHAFT. I can't imagine that Gen is too happy either.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Such an ending would be redundant after Episode 10.

This is what I mean when I'm ranting about the ending. Episode 10 was brilliant, don't get me wrong. It also created my biggest issue with the story, which is that by showing the audience all of these bad ends, is yet another bad ending really that interesting? Maybe, due to the quality of storytelling, it could be compelling. But what does it really accomplish? As you say, it would feel like watching 12 episodes of a mugging and raping...etc., etc.

To be honest, as much as I've enjoyed watching Madoka, I've also realized the limitations of Gen's writing. I came into it expecting a deconstruction of a genre, but what I got was the narrative equivalent of someone kicking a puppy after it was just run over by a car.

There's a point where the amount of negativity in a story reaches levels of pointlessness. The "high" from the shock value and demoralization wears off, and you're just left wondering if anyone who makes stories like this can ever make something that combines the best of hope and despair.

Life isn't full time happiness, but it isn't bad either.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Such an ending would be redundant after Episode 10.

Beyond that, it would also mean that Homura made a bad situation much, much worse.

Do you really want Homura to be a complete failure like that?

Not entirely redudant. In my opinion, episode 10 gave a sense of hope as we saw Homura's determination still driving her. The never-ending ending I'm imagining would be even worse...

[Snork]

Well, we will only be able to judge the level of PMMM's story and degree of deconstruction after we actually see the final episodes. With Urobuchi and Shaft, even interviews are not something you can always take at face value.

[xizro345]

I think people should also factor that both Shinbo and Gen have been vague or outright telling half-truths for months, so don't take anything they say as "it will happen like this" material.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Solace

This is what I mean when I'm ranting about the ending. Episode 10 was brilliant, don't get me wrong. It also created my biggest issue with the story, which is that by showing the audience all of these bad ends, is yet another bad ending really that interesting? Maybe, due to the quality of storytelling, it could be compelling. But what does it really accomplish? As you say, it would feel like watching 12 episodes of a mugging and raping...etc., etc.

To be honest, as much as I've enjoyed watching Madoka, I've also realized the limitations of Gen's writing. I came into it expecting a deconstruction of a genre, but what I got was the narrative equivalent of someone kicking a puppy after it was just run over by a car.

I don't think we're at such a narrative equivalent to that yet, but yes, if we get an unending time loop of hell, it will come across to me like beating a dead horse, and rather pointless.

There comes a point where suffering ceases to have meaning, and marches into wangst territory. I don't think that Madoka Magica is there yet, but a total bad end would get it there.

This anime can still be a good deconstruction of magical girl anime, but I think that would require a more conclusive ending than unending time loop of hell.

Thankfully, I doubt we'll get such an unending time loop of hell, but I'm putting my opposition to such an "end" out there now just in the off-chance that we do get it.

There's a point where the amount of negativity in a story reaches levels of pointlessness. The "high" from the shock value and demoralization wears off, and you're just left wondering if anyone who makes stories like this can ever make something that combines the best of hope and despair.

Life isn't full time happiness, but it isn't bad either.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Haak

Not entirely redudant. In my opinion, episode 10 gave a sense of hope as we saw Homura's determination still driving her. The never-ending ending I'm imagining would be even worse...

That's just a difference of degree, not type. It's like turning the decibel level up on the death metal music that's been playing for 30 minutes now. It's louder, sure, but it's just more of the same.

It would be very redundant, in my opinion.

[Haak]

By even worse, I meant "absolutely no hope whatsoever".

I mean if you really crank up the "ray of hope" effect then losing it could be quite a hammer blow.

[hyperborealis]

Originally Posted by Solace

This is what I mean when I'm ranting about the ending. Episode 10 was brilliant, don't get me wrong. It also created my biggest issue with the story, which is that by showing the audience all of these bad ends, is yet another bad ending really that interesting? Maybe, due to the quality of storytelling, it could be compelling. But what does it really accomplish? As you say, it would feel like watching 12 episodes of a mugging and raping...etc., etc.

To be honest, as much as I've enjoyed watching Madoka, I've also realized the limitations of Gen's writing. I came into it expecting a deconstruction of a genre, but what I got was the narrative equivalent of someone kicking a puppy after it was just run over by a car.

There's a point where the amount of negativity in a story reaches levels of pointlessness. The "high" from the shock value and demoralization wears off, and you're just left wondering if anyone who makes stories like this can ever make something that combines the best of hope and despair.

Life isn't full time happiness, but it isn't bad either.

If Madoka Magica is a tragedy, why can it not be enjoyed as a tragedy? We can gain from it, not demoralization or despair, but catharsis--the expression and the refinement of our emotions of pity and fear. We can learn, from the tragic hero's recognition of his place in human fate and destiny, an elevated perspective upon ourselves and our own lives. We can enjoy the anime, in short, in the same way that we enjoy King Lear or Oedipus Rex.

Why not?