Rozen Maiden ~Träumend~ (Season 2)

[Radiosity]

Originally Posted by Wandering_Youth

Spoiler:

Who would of ever thought that Enju was not Rozen and Bara was not a Rozen Maiden? Surprised? Yes, I was! Anyways, the last few scenes of the episode were confusing because did Bara die/destoryed and yet we see her dancing with the rabbit in god knows where in the end. Speaking of Bara, she looked quite pretty without the eye patch.

Spoiler:

That was the real Bara dancing with Laplace in Neverland (lol). There is actually a doll called Bara, but she wasn't involved in any of the happenings here, because obviously it was all the fake Bara's doing.

[Guido]

I agree with everyone else that this was not the end, yet.

Last climax for the second act had me in tears and could not stop to grieve for the Rozen Maidens.

Spoiler:

1. Shinku's plead to Suigin-Tou to stop the fighting.

2. Suigin-Tou's death.

3. Shinku exploding in anger and attempting to murder Bara-suishou.

4. Shinku's death, crying for Jun's name with her tears.

5. Jun's desperate cry for Rozen to understand the pain and sorrow that his daughters had been enduring in the course of madness.

Rozen at last shows up.....

Spoiler:

I sincerely believe for myself, and wish it could turn out true in the manga, that Rozen became touched for what his daughters became afflicted and suffered.

There are three lines that support the evidence on what I'm about to say:

The first was from Rozen encouraging Shinku to dream of becoming Alice once again.

The second thing Rozen revealed to Shinku was that there are other ways to become Alice with no need to exclusively resort to the 'Alice' game.

The third, which I could think of as a gift from their father, was that Rozen told Shinku to handle things on her own from now on.

I'm concluding from that evidence alone that Rozen has put the fate of Alice in Shinku's resolve and to determine it along with the rest of her sisters.

The meaning of Alice for Rozen Maiden.

Spoiler:

It is not about to create perfection. Debatable if Rozen once was human or not, humans are flawed and their actions often tend toward mistakes.

Humans possess capacities for what they can do, however, the downside is that those capacities are restricted by limitations. It doesn't matter how much effort or talent is invested because that particular limitation will never be breached.

If you put to analysis, each of the Rozen Maiden possess both qualities and flaws distinctive to their personalities.

I'm just speculating that Rozen never longed for a perfect 'Alice' rather he's expecting the coming of the integral, complete 'Alice'.
For that to happen, all of the Rozen Maidens have to learn about their flaws and coming to terms for what's best for them and for the others to whom they bond.

Enju's just like the rest of the foolish humans which allows his pride to get the better of him. He was absorbed to how magnificient was his Bara-suishou that never thought what ended up creating, what mistakes he had overlooked.

Enju created a child with no heart who resorted to steal the Rozen Maiden's hearts to become full alive. And at the end Enju ended with nothing; his dream shattered not because his child was perfect, because he overlooked that himself was the one who committed the mistake, but still ignored his own limitations.

On the other hand, Jun and Shinku's plead for not desiring the calamitous consequences of the Alice Game to go on has made Rozen to contemplate about his limitations and mistakes.

He has allowed for his children to carry the course of Alice in their hands.

What a real father always does for his children is:
1. Forbid them to do or commit something that will hurt them or others.
2. Encourage them to develop their talents, as well their desire to dream and improve themselves.
3. Love them until the end to much realize that sooner or later the children will have to settle their own lives, therefore, granting their freedom to handle on their own.

Is the Alice Game meant for only Rozen Maiden?

Spoiler:

Yes & No. Enju honing the talents to create a living doll, he started the course for his Bara-Suishou to earn the privilege of becoming Alice. There is no restriction in the Alice Game for outsider dolls to complete, since Enju's Bara-Suishou also has the ability to extract Rosa Mysticas.

However, since Enju's Bara-Suishou does not possess her own Rosa Mystica is impossible for her to contain within her body the Rosa Mystica of the other dolls.

She's incompleted with only six of them, thus turning imperfect.

And Suisei-Seki, Canaria, and Suigin-Tou's Rosa Mystica returned because were not stolen by a Rozen Maiden whereas Hina-Ichigo & Sousei-Seki did not.

Is the Alice Game really over?

Spoiler:

Difficult for me to come to a proper conclusion with only guesswork from the anime and not reading the manga.

If I simply come to think of it, the Alice Game finished in an incomplete manner. Bara-Suishou was a fake made by Enju not Rozen. Both of them orchestrated the whole mayhem, however, they overlooked that both became puppets from Rozen's Kira-Kishou who realized another way to become Alice without her getting involved in the Alice Game.

Besides, Shinku will not allow the initiation of another Alice Game, because she now has been entrusted by Father to open up another path to become Alice, and both she and Jun had already made their choice about that.

Will there be another continuation for the Rozen Maiden?

Spoiler:

If I correctly recall from certain people around here, Japanese tend to keep unannounced whenever they don't want to continue certain anime titles through sequels.

Why the series director bothers to announce that there won't be no more Rozen Maiden when would be easier to just left the news unannounced?

As for myself I cannot come to terms with that conclusion, it seemed to end like an ordinary TV episode; not even they arranged the ending credits to roll when Shinku and Jun returned home.

I believe that continuation for Rozen Maiden will be done in a similar fashion to Wolf's Rain, likewise, through OVA resuming from exactly where Traümend left off.

Let's not forget the words of the rabbit, Laplace no Ma, to Jun that this play was over for now....

[ChronoReverse]

Spoiler:

Her name is actually Kirakishou

@Spectrum

Spoiler:

As for Jun, yes I'm referring to the end when he stopped Shinku. Without the not quite Deus Ex Machina reset (and if you're Jun, it's not something you could have known about beforehand), you have a choice between Shinku winning, but feeling pretty terrible about everything and Shinku going back to her pacifist self and getting stabbed in the gut by Barasuishou. I don't know about you, but if I'm in that situation, I choose a live, emotionally scarred Shinku (who can recouperate someday) over a dead Shinku.

Spoiler:

True, but if I were in Jun's place, I wouldn't have anticipated that Barasuishou would do the point blank stab. And frankly, Shinku betraying herself at this point really would just be making her entire effort of the whole season to have been a lie of a hypocrite. I still feel a bit of "Aww, Jun, it's all your fault" though XD

[Guido]

An interesting note from the people who subbed Traümend

Dear, viewers.

Sadly this great anime series
has come to an end. ToT;
We now know how it is ended, and that
Enju wasn't dolls' father.
There had been some debate on Japanese
blog sites about about whether Enju is
their father or not. And I found it quite
interesting how some people thought he
isn't and would like to share with you.


His name is Enju, or so they say. Enju is
taken from the name of plants "enju" or
"Sophora japonica" or "acacia." There're
many types of Enju, but one that is
generally called enju is a plant that
doesn't have thorns. And of course Rozen is
rose and has thorns. Therefore, Enju can't
be Rozen. (=_=a)
There is a type of enju that does have
thorns though. It's called "Hari Enju
(Thorn Enju)" or "Nise Enju (Fake Enju)"
or "Robinia pseudo-acacia." Basically it is
a fake enju.


Of course, there's no evidence that they
named him because of these facts, but it's
quite possible. And even if they didn't,
it's interesting to know...
don't you think?



Oh and... did you notice true/fake
Bara-suishou?

Pop-quiz!
Is it fake or true Bara-suishou who covers
right eye? ^^



Anyway, we, chachamaru-fansub team (team?
just me, chachamaru, and Kamikaze Duck
though... >.<) would like to thank
everyone and hope you enjoyed this great
show! There might had been several (...ok,
many) mistakes, but please execuse us for
this is our very first attempt in fan-sub
business.

We hope to serve you again somewhere someday.


Until then, ja ne~

-chachamaru

[Mangaka-chan]

[QUOTE=ChronoReverse]

Spoiler:

Her name is actually Kirakishou

Who are you talking about?

Anyways, just watched the sub and I've gotta say I really want a thrid season!

Spoiler:

And frankly, introducing the real Barasuishou and not reviving Sousei Seki and Hina Ichigo is just leaving the door way open for a sequal. Somebody before me mentioned that perhaps the real Barasuishou found a way to not get physically involved in the Alice Game by getting Laplace to get Rosa Mystics for her. But if that's the case it means we might have a really demented and cunning Rozen Maiden on our hands I'm also glad that the real Father seems to be a truely gentle and caring person and should there be a third season (cross fingers) I hope we'll get to learn more about him and let Jun play a bigger role than he did in Traumend.

[roro]

a lil question.

Spoiler:

Why does the real Bara get Hina Ichigo and Sousei-seki's rosa mysticas? I understand they "were not returned" because they were killed by a real Rozen doll. That's fine.

but, but, but why wouldn't they go to who actually took over them? Why can the real Bara have them snatched for her?

This part really confuses me.

[Flo]

Spoiler for Barasuishou/Bara Otome's real name (Manga related):

Kirakishou.

[Radiosity]

Originally Posted by roro

a lil question.

Spoiler:

Why does the real Bara get Hina Ichigo and Sousei-seki's rosa mysticas? I understand they "were not returned" because they were killed by a real Rozen doll. That's fine.

but, but, but why wouldn't they go to who actually took over them? Why can the real Bara have them snatched for her?

This part really confuses me.

Spoiler:

Bara doesn't have them though. It's Laplace who's holding them. I'm of the opinion that he's holding them for safe keeping. Shinku should be able to do something about bringing Hina and Sousei-seki back, for which she'd need the Roza Mystica's. Not much use if the Roza's have gone flying off somewhere out of reach

Shinku: That's why father brought me back. He told me to solve the problem.
Jun: You can do it. You will definitely be able to.

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

@Spectrum

Spoiler:

True, but if I were in Jun's place, I wouldn't have anticipated that Barasuishou would do the point blank stab. And frankly, Shinku betraying herself at this point really would just be making her entire effort of the whole season to have been a lie of a hypocrite. I still feel a bit of "Aww, Jun, it's all your fault" though XD

Spoiler for *STAB*:

Yeah, it's not like Jun could have known Barasuishou was a murderous rampaging doll who only wanted to become Alice by killing off Shinku. It's not as if he had a previous encounter with her while other important things were going on. It's not as if she, while having difficulty walking around, was only looking for Shinku and calling her name. It's not as if she snapped and attempted to skewer Jun with a crystal burst, even if seems to be poor form in the series to threaten someone else's medium.

Oh wait.

[Trax]

Spoiler:

I'm not convinced that the Bara-suishou that crumbled was a fake, and a copy of the real one. I can't imagine that Enju could be satisfied with a creation that was a copy, regardless if he considered it a superior version or not. It still would not be his unique creation that way. None of the Rozen Maiden knew Bara-suishou so he didn't even have to make a copy in order to fool them, the 'unknown sister' ploy worked just fine.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

Spoiler for Power discussion + why Jun sucks:

As for Jun, yes I'm referring to the end when he stopped Shinku. Without the not quite Deus Ex Machina reset (and if you're Jun, it's not something you could have known about beforehand), you have a choice between Shinku winning, but feeling pretty terrible about everything and Shinku going back to her pacifist self and getting stabbed in the gut by Barasuishou. I don't know about you, but if I'm in that situation, I choose a live, emotionally scarred Shinku (who can recouperate someday) over a dead Shinku.

Spoiler for my reply to why I think jun doesn't suck:

Just as you pointed out that there was no way for Jun to know about the "reset", also there was no way to know until after the event, that Bara was going to kebab Shinku. Sure it's easy to say afterwards what a fool his actions caused her death, but if she did kill Bara then we and they would only know that Shinku killed Bara for revenge, which in my opinion would be so un-Shinku like. Shinku had her beat, and decided to spare her, if Bara decided to win at all costs then how is that Jun's fault? All Jun did was stop her from becoming like Bara...

[Scribble]

Does anyone else think that the ending of Rozen Maiden Traumend is saying "Read the Manga To See What is Happening Next" as opposed to "There will be a new season of RM"?

I'm thinking this because of Peach Pit working close with the anime creators, and the fact that the final episode ends so it "fits into the manga", i.e.
(Spoilers for latest chapter of manga as well as final ep of Traumend)

Spoiler:

The *real* Barasuishou, aka Kirakishou introducing herself in the latest manga chapter, and also being unveiled in the final episode of Traumend. Also, Souseiseki and Hina Ichigo (I think, I don't read the manga) are apparently dead in the manga

So isn't that an indicator that we are supposed to read the manga if we want to enjoy more Rozen Maiden? It seems to make sense....

[Radiosity]

I very much doubt it. Why force people into a single medium like that when they could make more money by creating a third season of a well received and liked series? Because that's what this all boils down to: Money. If it makes money, keep on doing it. Naruto is a case in point, as is the new 'Original Story' arc of Bleach.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Radiosity

I very much doubt it. Why force people into a single medium like that when they could make more money by creating a third season of a well received and liked series? Because that's what this all boils down to: Money. If it makes money, keep on doing it. Naruto is a case in point, as is the new 'Original Story' arc of Bleach.

Besides a 3rd won't air for at least a year so they can sell their manga and make money form the anime. Thats having your cake and eating it too.

[Flo]

Spoiler for Kirakishou:

Come to think of it about Kirakishou
I wonder if Peach-Pit will become insane and create 8th doll, Athrunkishou...

Ok I've gone completely mental.

[Scribble]

Originally Posted by Radiosity

I very much doubt it. Why force people into a single medium like that when they could make more money by creating a third season of a well received and liked series? Because that's what this all boils down to: Money. If it makes money, keep on doing it. Naruto is a case in point, as is the new 'Original Story' arc of Bleach.

That is true, though I'm curious as to why the creator of the series is saying that he won't be continuing with Rozen Maiden anime. But I suppose there's nothing that can stop him from changing his mind, and he also might be trying to avoid him coming across as milking Rozen Maiden. *shrugs*

EDIT:
Also, which "shou" design does everyone favour? I love the Kirakishou's design better than Bara's, as to me Barasuishou's design didn't really stand out much from the others.

Spoiler:

I just hope Kirakishou has a personality similar to Bara. I fell in love with Bara's personality, especially in the last few episodes, where Bara goes psycho at Jun, and ESPECIALLY her exchanges with Shinku while she is being pinned to the ground. Kira may have a completely personality altogether, since this is the first time a 7th doll has been introduced in the manga, and Bara in the anime may have only been given the "echo syndrome" to emphasise the fact that she was just an imitator

[grey_moon]

At the end of s1 my favorite dolls were:
shinku
hina
gin
sui
sou

at the end of s2:
shinku
hina (sniffle)
sui
gin
sou
bara
kana

Not much change, but to be honest I like all of the dolls a lot and only very little seperates them on my list.

How about everyone else did you find your preferences changed a lot by the end of s2?

[Radiosity]

Most disturbing thing for me was Gin. I hate her, with a passion, have done since the first time I heard that damned laugh. But now I find myself somewhat attracted to her and I can't figure out why (attracted not in a 'I'd hit it' sense I might add). On the surface, I still can't stand her, but somewhere under the surface there is an attraction, maybe a sympathy for her that I can't control. Heh, the writers did a good job on that one it seems, because I'm normally 100% on things I like or dislike.

[Swann]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

How about everyone else did you find your preferences changed a lot by the end of s2?

At the end of season 1 Shinku was my favorite followed by Gin.

Now, since ep5, Gin is my favorite followed by Shinku.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by Radiosity

Most disturbing thing for me was Gin. I hate her, with a passion, have done since the first time I heard that damned laugh. But now I find myself somewhat attracted to her and I can't figure out why (attracted not in a 'I'd hit it' sense I might add). On the surface, I still can't stand her, but somewhere under the surface there is an attraction, maybe a sympathy for her that I can't control. Heh, the writers did a good job on that one it seems, because I'm normally 100% on things I like or dislike.

Maybe the way she treats Megu? Her reason for playing the Alice game in s2 seems pretty selfless (apart from the view from the other dolls ).

For me her character clicked at the very end of s1, and suddenly blossomed in s2. I thought what the writers did with the end of s1 was very very good. I hate it when a character is evil, just because...

It always twangs my heart strings when a character is portrayed as efil, but then we see a kinder side to them... When a goody two shoes character does some thing good its kinda like hmm a bit more of the same thing...