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Old 2018-09-21, 10:15   Link #1881
Kuroageha
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Because they were replying to you, as for why KC anime canon didnt make the connection between the abyssals and the shipgirls, telling you that the movie adressed the issue. To which you said it was just done way too late, stating that the movie still made people unhappy. Cosmic Eagle told you otherwise. So like, now his opinion is invalid because you decided that its more about the TV series than the movie, really?
I didn't bring up abyssal to begin with, all my criticism was about TV series.
Anyway, I'll cut it here, isn't a talk about AL anymore.
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Old 2018-09-21, 10:29   Link #1882
Klashikari
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I've displaced the parts that had nothing to do with AL anime announcement



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroageha View Post
I didn't bring up abyssal to begin with, all my criticism was about TV series.
Anyway, I'll cut it here, isn't a talk about AL anymore.
Your point was really awkwardly done, since Kakurin and Marcus were talking about that specific part of KC after Marcus' claim "AL isn't as lighthearted as KC" which is flat out wrong considering the "anime canon".

The fact it should have been in the anime series can't be argued, but you cannot claim the movie is irrelevant since it is an actual sequel and canon to the series at large.

If you wish to complain about the anime series as a whole, feel free to do so with the proper arguments and subject at hand. But I believe it is quite disingenous to jack the topic of other members who were quite specific with the subject at hand.
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Old 2018-09-21, 10:36   Link #1883
Kuroageha
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I get your point, I'll try to elaborate later about what I was aiming to: KC TV series handling was poorly done.
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Old 2018-09-21, 22:04   Link #1884
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroageha View Post
I didn't bring up abyssal to begin with, all my criticism was about TV series.
Anyway, I'll cut it here, isn't a talk about AL anymore.
Eh, thought you were saying the movie came too late and that there was unhappiness over it
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Old 2018-09-22, 02:57   Link #1885
Marcus H.
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The criticisms regarding the movie's update to canon was all hindsight. First off, the canon should have been introduced in the anime instead of the movie whose existence wasn't really a guarantee. Second, since all we got from the movie was a sneak peek into this new canon, we got too little from the movie canon to develop a story that can be connected to the anime.

The only fix to this is maybe official integration of this new canon into the storyline of the game.
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Old 2018-09-22, 04:20   Link #1886
Klashikari
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The movie was already confirmed by the end of the series, and while it wasn't particularly well done in the original series, the premise was hinted with the subplot regarding Kisaragi. It could have been handled better, that's for certain, but it wasn't completely out of the left field either.
And no, that "new canon" was already present in the game before the movie, and even the anime series (fall 2014).

Personally, the anime could have been fixed by rearranging the "arcs", streamlining/removing some of them. I'd rather have the initial "training" for Fubuki for 2-3 episodes, some lighthearted episodes for 2-3 episodes, then the operation with Kisaragi sinking, then nonstop skirmish and fights against the abyssal, then a real confrontation against the wo kai (while removing entirely the kai ni drama, but still add Yuudachi and Fubuki's for the grand finale).

At the very least, the movie fixed a lot of stuff (not perfectly, mind you), so if the second season is still in production, it could be something entirely different.
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Old 2018-09-22, 04:21   Link #1887
Kakurin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
The only fix to this is maybe official integration of this new canon into the storyline of the game.
You should really do your homework before making any further claims. This "canon" you speak of regarding the relationship between kanmusu and Abyssals was hinted in the games first before being ported to the movie.
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Old 2018-09-22, 05:30   Link #1888
Sheba
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Abyssal bosses sinking line have had them reverting from the typical warped to normal voice as far as Midway event, iirc. I can only speak as someone who debuted before the Midway event.

"Loose" canon have been one of the reasons that allowed Kancolle fandom to flourish as we know it now. This permitted authors a wide range of stories from from fun, like the Ido and nonco fancomics, to serious ones like boushi-ya, and some in-between like Munma-san.

This have also worked well for works like Touhou.
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Old 2018-09-22, 06:13   Link #1889
Klashikari
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Aye, "resenting ghosts" theory was already quite popular early on, but midway event (Summer 2014) fueled that theory quite a lot due to the arrival of actual designed bosses such as the CV princess and the Midway Princess. The former caused a lot of stir because while the nodes and the damage on her flight decks implied she represented USS Yorktown, her design and voice were basically a mixture of Akagi and Kaga. With this, the popular opinion was that we were dealing with corrupted forms of Kanmusu to a certain degree, then in the very next event we got the abyssal Harusame I've linked previously, who incidentally rewarded Harusame once defeated.

Those two events had implicit and explicit implication of that lore. Then further events proved it to be true with the same "abyssal boss looking like a kanmusu, dropping the said kanmusu" + "eerie but purified dialogues upon defeat" patterns.
That's the very reason why a lot of us expected an abyssal Kisaragi the very moment she sunk in the anime.
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Old 2018-09-22, 20:46   Link #1890
Marcus H.
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Quote:
You should really do your homework before making any further claims. This "canon" you speak of regarding the relationship between kanmusu and Abyssals was hinted in the games first before being ported to the movie.
Ah, right. My bad. I'm not entirely a fan of the game's mechanics, and since there's no point in wanting to play a game that I probably won't like, I decided to focus on the anime. The wiki doesn't seem helping in wanting to know the game canon since its focus is on gameplay and events.

And regarding "hinted", this means no actual confirmation? Because it would be awesome if the game has an actual confirmed canon.
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Last edited by Marcus H.; 2018-09-22 at 20:57.
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Old 2018-09-23, 04:11   Link #1891
Sheba
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Leaving the anime talk aside, for this:

Quote:
The Saury Festival this time will be held in 10 places(including 6 places in the capital region and Nagoya, Kyoto, Sapporo, Hiroshima.) It will begin at the weekend in early October.
source

One of the reasons I posted this was mostly to answer why they may not want to expand overseas. From KDKW's pov, KC, while an anomaly due to its unexpected success, is still a niche game for a niche market. The game itself is dirty cheap, tkks, old and new, buy mostly for dorm expansions and likely rings for waifus. The "whales" will occasionally buy the mamiya, irako, equip expansion slot AND repair goddess for events.

But even that is still not enough money iirc. KDKW gets its KC money from real life events like Zuiun and Saury Festivals (and products like manga and light novels I think). Those festivals are occasions for fans to gather and also meet the voice actresses, and the KC staff. And if they are lucky, to have hints for future events and/or future shipgirls.

Trophy DDs aside, one of the keys to keep people talking about KC is which new girl will join, and that may be related to the tantalizing rate at which they are released, especially with the seasonal pace of event. RL events were where we got teased Commandant Teste (Kancolle Wine Collab), Ark Royal (Zuiun Fest), Jervis (Zuiun Fest) and Suzutsuki (4th Kancolle Naval Review). Compare to the concurrence that obey the mobage logic,where you need to saturate the customers with more girls than you can shake your dong at take (and we need to remind people that KC is NOT a mobage). The homeopathic rate of release of new girls can be seen as a blessing, since it allows the new girls to slowly grow and win over the fandom. In the eyes of others, especially gaijins fond of the narrative of a race between KC and its concurrence to see which one will release the *insert muh iconic ship of x/y navy* first, it is a curse.

So, the RL events are one of the things that allow KDKW to make money off KC. You can see why they sees no reason to expand overseas, especially USA and EU, with little prospect of reasonable attendance and potential money to pay off the organization of such KC oversea conventions, not to mention the logistic. Yes, in a ideal world, KC would have simultranslated events, and eventually be revamped into another kind of game to appeal to gaijins who want more control and less rng (personally, I'd prefer a XCom like game), but the former cost money, and the latter should be another kancolle spin-off game and not the original management game. And those who moved on, and jumped to the competition, just wont give a shit.
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Old 2018-09-23, 05:15   Link #1892
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
And regarding "hinted", this means no actual confirmation? Because it would be awesome if the game has an actual confirmed canon.
It was initially hinted with the summer 2014 event, implied with the fall 2014 event, and outright confirmed with summer 2015 boss. From that point onward, 1 or several bosses in every event is "purified" as their kanmusu form is obtained after defeating them.
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Old 2018-09-23, 09:32   Link #1893
Marcus H.
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Thanks for the confirmation. I thought they were gonna skirt around the issue.

Quote:
So, the RL events are one of the things that allow KDKW to make money off KC. You can see why they sees no reason to expand overseas, especially USA and EU, with little prospect of reasonable attendance and potential money to pay off the organization of such KC oversea conventions, not to mention the logistic. Yes, in a ideal world, KC would have simultranslated events, and eventually be revamped into another kind of game to appeal to gaijins who want more control and less rng (personally, I'd prefer a XCom like game), but the former cost money, and the latter should be another kancolle spin-off game and not the original management game. And those who moved on, and jumped to the competition, just wont give a shit.
Basically, Kancolle is stuck with this business model because it's the only one that works for them. That's quite pitiful. There are other games out there (mostly mobile games) that are able to expand well outside of outright dependence on live events. (Maybe new game elements are necessary to entice Admirals to cough up their cash, or maybe they should just ditch the browser version and go straight into mobile development, I dunno.) But well, if it works for them and Kancolle's not gonna die any time soon, then maybe that's good.

Let's just hope that the development process in Kancolle doesn't get thinned up as much as that of Valve's Team Fortress 2.
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2021: Restaurant to Another World S2 (3/12), takt Op. Destiny (1/12) and Taisho Maiden Fairy Tale (1/12).
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Old 2018-09-23, 10:39   Link #1894
Klashikari
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Just to expand on what I stated: the game pretty much confirmed the "dynamics" between Kanmusu and Abyssals, but it never alluded exactly "how" and "where" it came from. The movie actually addressed that issue (although not "complete canon" for the franchise because some characters like Akagi work differently in the anime compared to the game) by explaining the "cycle". Considering how the game uses as well the "crimson seas" for the events, chances that part of the lore is the same for the game are very high.



As for the game business, I don't think it is "they don't have any other choice", but rather how it is something they did on purpose. For starters, the franchise was never meant to be that successful to begin with and was pretty much some humble "indie game" hosted by DMM.com. IIRC, Tanaka admitted that he expected the game to last 6-12 months at best, but the game started gaining traction around september 2013 and its popularity kept soaring during 2014.
In fact, it is only around that time that Kadokawa showed up and bought the licence rights (Kadokawa was not in the copyright when the game was live).

From the very beginning, the developpers DO NOT WANT the players to spend toncrap of money. During the first months after the game went live, a lot of players were actually wondering "please give us way to give you money" as the cash shop was pretty much barebone. In general, any player will tell you that the game has very little to no p2w components (be it because of the RNG nature of the game, bad rates for the resource or no direct improvements for the kanmusu), and this is also confirmed by the developpers attitude towards the game. For instance, they never went with "limited gacha" stuff with the construction feature of the game. You would expect them to limit access to large ship construction with real money (since it is the only way to get rare ships like Yamato), but they simply didn't. When they explained you need proper amount of resource for the large constructions, they asked admirals to only use what they have and avoid at all cost purchase of resource just for that. And what did they do when people went hardcore when the LSC first showed up? They removed the "shortcut button" to the cash shop that was present on the LSC menu.
Another plain example: they implemented "cookies" as some sort of "white day" gifts, which is directly translated as some resources for the HQ. But when they announced its implementation, they outright stated that item is not cost effective AND don't have any effect to progress in the game.

So really, the developpers are pretty much safeguarding the game on monetary basis, which is very likely why the developper team is still pretty small and they don't do extreme changes on the game mechanics, but have to add elements over the years. But this is also why a lot of people come to respect them, regardless of the game features, because they always stayed true to this. Even if someone were to point out some stuff like marriage or the equipment expansion slots, the former benefits are negligible and mostly for favoritism, while the latter are obtained for free on numerous occasions.
Even if the game isn't a mobage, they could easily add incentives so players would pay like the LSC, advantageous resource bundles, actual permanent bonus, special gimmicks etc. But they are next to inexistent in KC.

From there, you can tell they don't endorse predatory methods to get money with micro (or rather macro) transactions compared to mobage at large. This is the very reason why a Kadokawa representative stated in 2014 that the game is not profitable, and the franchise is rolling on merchandising and other stuff like that. Which is probably for the best since anyone can enjoy the game while the most hardcore fans would support the franchise with other means. And such means usually involve IRL events.

From my perspective, this stance is pretty much the reason why kadokawa doesn't do a damn thing because they don't really trust KC "lasting appeal" which explains why there was so little "cash grab" moves from them in 2014 and 2015.
I personally believe it is also the reason why kadokawa was so late into pitching the anime project and why the anime had such low budget and low key studio/staff behind it. You would expect a staff similar to GuP and stuff like that, but they pretty much cut corners there.

It is pretty obvious C2 (the original group behind the game) and Kadokawa are very rarely in unison when it comes to idea and business model. Most IRL events are actually activities and stuff related to IRL ships along with their respective characters, whereas you would expect much more live/chara songs etc from kadokawa. Hell, the collab with lawson etc only started around end of 2016, and they finally created a "Kadokawa Architecture" branch which is handling the franchise along with C2.
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Old 2018-11-09, 16:13   Link #1895
Sheba
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Translation of an interview with Kensuke Tanaka from back in 2013

Random bits we learn from the interview:

- Tanaka mostly wrote the individual personalities for all the girls.
- He wanted to write books first.
- One of his goals have been to avoid reliance on micro-transactions as much as possible.
- He really, really, really, truly really loves Aviation Cruisers and Aviation Battleships. Now you know why seaplanes as viable gears and recurring monthly ranking rewards are a thing, almost on a memetic level.
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Old 2018-11-10, 15:31   Link #1896
AC-Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Just to expand on what I stated: the game pretty much confirmed the "dynamics" between Kanmusu and Abyssals, but it never alluded exactly "how" and "where" it came from. The movie actually addressed that issue (although not "complete canon" for the franchise because some characters like Akagi work differently in the anime compared to the game) by explaining the "cycle". Considering how the game uses as well the "crimson seas" for the events, chances that part of the lore is the same for the game are very high.



As for the game business, I don't think it is "they don't have any other choice", but rather how it is something they did on purpose. For starters, the franchise was never meant to be that successful to begin with and was pretty much some humble "indie game" hosted by DMM.com. IIRC, Tanaka admitted that he expected the game to last 6-12 months at best, but the game started gaining traction around september 2013 and its popularity kept soaring during 2014.
In fact, it is only around that time that Kadokawa showed up and bought the licence rights (Kadokawa was not in the copyright when the game was live).

From the very beginning, the developpers DO NOT WANT the players to spend toncrap of money. During the first months after the game went live, a lot of players were actually wondering "please give us way to give you money" as the cash shop was pretty much barebone. In general, any player will tell you that the game has very little to no p2w components (be it because of the RNG nature of the game, bad rates for the resource or no direct improvements for the kanmusu), and this is also confirmed by the developpers attitude towards the game. For instance, they never went with "limited gacha" stuff with the construction feature of the game. You would expect them to limit access to large ship construction with real money (since it is the only way to get rare ships like Yamato), but they simply didn't. When they explained you need proper amount of resource for the large constructions, they asked admirals to only use what they have and avoid at all cost purchase of resource just for that. And what did they do when people went hardcore when the LSC first showed up? They removed the "shortcut button" to the cash shop that was present on the LSC menu.
Another plain example: they implemented "cookies" as some sort of "white day" gifts, which is directly translated as some resources for the HQ. But when they announced its implementation, they outright stated that item is not cost effective AND don't have any effect to progress in the game.

So really, the developpers are pretty much safeguarding the game on monetary basis, which is very likely why the developper team is still pretty small and they don't do extreme changes on the game mechanics, but have to add elements over the years. But this is also why a lot of people come to respect them, regardless of the game features, because they always stayed true to this. Even if someone were to point out some stuff like marriage or the equipment expansion slots, the former benefits are negligible and mostly for favoritism, while the latter are obtained for free on numerous occasions.
Even if the game isn't a mobage, they could easily add incentives so players would pay like the LSC, advantageous resource bundles, actual permanent bonus, special gimmicks etc. But they are next to inexistent in KC.

From there, you can tell they don't endorse predatory methods to get money with micro (or rather macro) transactions compared to mobage at large. This is the very reason why a Kadokawa representative stated in 2014 that the game is not profitable, and the franchise is rolling on merchandising and other stuff like that. Which is probably for the best since anyone can enjoy the game while the most hardcore fans would support the franchise with other means. And such means usually involve IRL events.

From my perspective, this stance is pretty much the reason why kadokawa doesn't do a damn thing because they don't really trust KC "lasting appeal" which explains why there was so little "cash grab" moves from them in 2014 and 2015.
I personally believe it is also the reason why kadokawa was so late into pitching the anime project and why the anime had such low budget and low key studio/staff behind it. You would expect a staff similar to GuP and stuff like that, but they pretty much cut corners there.

It is pretty obvious C2 (the original group behind the game) and Kadokawa are very rarely in unison when it comes to idea and business model. Most IRL events are actually activities and stuff related to IRL ships along with their respective characters, whereas you would expect much more live/chara songs etc from kadokawa. Hell, the collab with lawson etc only started around end of 2016, and they finally created a "Kadokawa Architecture" branch which is handling the franchise along with C2.
Ironically I find it sad that they don't put drop ships in the store for a limited time after their event.
They don't even have to do it with the intention of getting rich with it, just as a way for people to get them in case they failed during the event. - No dupes allowed through this system.

Like for example: Requirement for the Ship to be unlocked in the Store: 50+Runs towards Nodes that drop them. (i.E. at least having seriously tried)

If executed right that would even run with their 'No money making thing' while giving people the chance to support the game and get something out of it.
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Old 2019-01-04, 02:50   Link #1897
marconii2002
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2 season was announced http://yaraon-blog.com/archives/142085
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Old 2019-01-04, 04:24   Link #1898
Sheba
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Someone from reddit said an actual trailer have been shown at Kancolle Jazz concert.

I quote:

Quote:
Started with feature Shigure(she seems to be the MC) sitting at a Kotatsu eating oranges, by herself.

There was a flashback that was obviously the Surigao Straight (Nishimura’s Souther Task Force): Yamashiro, Fuso, Mogami with the destroyers Shigure, Michishio, Asagumo and Yamagumo. Note that only Shigure survived the battle. Yamashiro/Fuso was hit and Mogami was seen fighting along with the DDs. The flashback ended with a spread of torpedos rushing up to Shigure.

Hamakaze and Isokaze also made an appearance (in the HQ).

There was a shot of Yahagi and Shigure standing together overlooking a snow covered town.

There was a battle sequence with Yahagi fighting, looked like against aircraft. This may mean it will also cover Operation Ten-Go(???)

It ended with a shot of the kotatsu again but this time it was without Shigure.
Shigure fans and Yahagi fans will have a field day.
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Old 2019-01-04, 05:53   Link #1899
Ithekro
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Means the original three will have "sunk" ,by now.
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Old 2019-01-04, 08:21   Link #1900
LoweGear
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Saw the leaked footage of the PV.... animated Nishimura Fleet, and Yahagi

Also spotted Kashima and Suzutsuki in the PV, so might expect more "newer" ships to make an appearance.
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