2012-11-28, 02:00 | Link #1761 |
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Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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If Senshado is a martial art, then it is not just a game, and thus there is a duty to do one's duty as a follower of Senshado. Miho neglected her duty as a commander, and thus failed Senshado in that particular aspect. Saying her saving lives cleared her negligence is basically going against Senshado as a martial art.
@ wontaek: 1. The entire "five Shermans for one Panther" is false. At no time in the war has that ever happened, and the idea was it served as a warning rather than a fact. 2. The Panther itself is mobile, but what of the other tanks? They're not, and having one mobile tank when the rest is not up to the task is more of a liability than asset. |
2012-11-28, 02:03 | Link #1762 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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I'm not sure what part of this is hard to get.
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2012-11-28, 02:05 | Link #1764 | |||
Secret Society BLANKET
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco
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Note that if it was the Tiger H, the mudguards would be visibly angled upwards towards the front, and there'd be no round hatch on the side at all.
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2012-11-28, 02:08 | Link #1765 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Also enough with the "game" semantics. It's supposed to be a non-lethal competition (as silly as it may look). Once someone's about to die, if you're in a position to help, you HELP. |
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2012-11-28, 02:13 | Link #1767 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Sure, it's understandable. Selfishness isn't complicated. It's just not particularly admirable. |
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2012-11-28, 02:18 | Link #1768 | |
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Martial Art = Sport Have you ever heard of kendo, or judo, or fencing, or wrestling, or boxing? The only time martial arts isn't a sport is when it's used in combat, which I'm sure we can all agree Senshado isn't. It's not even self-satisfaction since you're never going to get praised for letting your friends die for some silly competition.
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2012-11-28, 02:18 | Link #1769 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
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she was not in the COMMAND TANK she was commanding the FLAG TANK. as i've said not enough info on that situation, so where the hell is Maho? if she's not then what the hell is she doing far away from the action? either way that would be a tactical blunder on her part (at least more than Miho's), certainly not enough to cast blame on anyone, (also command stays with Maho as they do have radio, and no indication that they were cut off)
angles, inclinations & elevations, impassibility would definitely be part of a military map, it's stupid to use just any regular map. in fact in the saunders match they were talking about elevations and such). I'm not from a tank battalion, but from the Rangers, but definitely tank battalions cant have maps any worse than the Rangers use do they? I agree that not EVERYTHING can be seen in the MAP, as features are always changing. but as i've said before Scouting is the main commanders responsibility, even if there were new things, the fact is the flag tank was there and Maho knows it, any new info could easily be referred to Maho by radio. So Maho definitely gave the OK for that situation, and may even be her command. the sitaution is not plainly Miho & company tring to advance beside a river on a narrow path. you don't even know why they are there, where they are coming from, or what they are trying to accomplish. are they trying to escape?, are they trying to attack? what? in fact in a three tank unit as they have there, and forced into a single line they were positioned properly. (just like what they did with the PzIV - 38T - STUGIII combi against saunders) with one tank guarding the flag tank in front & one at the back. since they were not sure (and we are not sure) if the enemy could come up from behind. It was mere bad luck that the first shot against the front tank caused it to slide into the river. and then if you one of the tanks guarding Miho's flag tank leave them to scout ahead then you'd leave the flag open to either the front or the back. Maho should have sent one of the other Tanks for that task, way before Miho got there. *** an addition to the concern of what Maho's crew were doing after she left, I noticed that their turrent/Gun wasn't even pointing front. I guess they really just froze instead of returning fire. Momo might even have done better at that situation with her Ute! Ute! Ute! attitude LOL of course she wont hit >.< guess not... she might hit their other tank oh well enough of this, Maho & Miho both are still cool for me.^^ I think it might even have been as one other poster said, some king of dirty tactic used by Pravda. well we'll find out in the coming episodes |
2012-11-28, 02:20 | Link #1770 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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I am still puzzled by what part of "saving lives and doing one's duty are not exclusive to each other" is so hard to understand for most people. The situation was not "win or save lives", it was "at least tell your crew to retreat as you jump out to save your kameradinen". Miho did not do what she could have done as she was getting out, which is why I'm saying she didn't do her duty. If it was only her tank and the drowning one, if communication was cut off, if her tank was surrounded, etc, the I would say Miho did what she could, but the thing is within that match she wasn't in such a situation.
I do not believe that sportifying martial arts means that martial arts are just sports indefinitely. Might sound elitist, but that is how I proceed with my training at all times. It's basically trivializing the philosophy of martial arts, which is the core of what makes a martial arts a martial arts. |
2012-11-28, 02:35 | Link #1771 |
Truth Martyr
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Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 38
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Was it a bad judgement call? Yes. Was it the right thing to do? Yes. Could she have done better? Probably, but hindsight is 20-30.
Men - well, girls - are not potatoes, by the way. Cut Miho some goddamned slack. She's a kid. She's not even 16. And at the end of the day, where the hell is Maho. The priciple of command is that the CO is responsible for any fuckups that happen, and lets the subordinates take the credit for sucess. Except it seems here that Black Forest's sucesses are attributable to Maho, while their loss is all Miho's fault.
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2012-11-28, 02:36 | Link #1772 | |
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Personally, I doubt the idea even crossed her mind. And that's good. Because in that situation you shouldn't even be thinking about the match at all. Maybe, maybe she could have given a snap-order that could have saved the flag tank as she jumped out to help the others. But the fact that she didn't shows that she was thinking about exactly what she should have been thinking about in that situation: saving the people drowning. The match stopped mattering as soon as the Panzer III fell into the water. By leaving the match; by not even apparently thinking about the match from the moment she saw the tank fall; Miho was doing exactly the right thing. |
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2012-11-28, 02:41 | Link #1773 | |
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2012-11-28, 02:48 | Link #1774 | ||||||||||
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2012-11-28, 02:49 | Link #1775 | |||
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Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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Also, she would have been 16 at the time of the contest: She was in the first year of high school. Quote:
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And at what point have we been actually comparing relative importance? |
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2012-11-28, 03:00 | Link #1776 | ||
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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Honestly, I think it may be wisest to call this converstaion off. Either one or both of these sides is not getting their point across, and it looks like the more we try to explain ourselves the more we just irritate the other side. |
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2012-11-28, 03:03 | Link #1777 |
Charge Me!
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: I'm not gone! I'm where you either use a slingshot or a gun!
Age: 30
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Concerning this back and forthing concerning Black Forest, do we know where all of Pravda's tanks were? For all we know, the match was lost beforehand - if not by the IS-2's D-25, then by a T-34's S-51. Were there any Pravda tanks behind Black Forest, as the presence of a Panzer III behind them seems to indicate?
Perhaps Mihou was just scapegoated the whole time for "losing" a match that was essentially a defeat long before then, because Black Forest was too vain to actually admit they'd been defeated?
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2012-11-28, 03:07 | Link #1778 | ||
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1. I don't see this as just sports, for "sports competitions" is itself something outside my line of logic. To me a martial art is by itself a philosophy to live by. 2. There is no "if not more important". There were two duties: Miho as a commander and as a kameradin. She did what she should as a kameradin, but not as what she should have done as a commander. It's that simple: She did not do her duty for one of her roles. If you wish. |
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2012-11-28, 03:19 | Link #1780 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Only Erika and Miho blame her for the loss. I would assume most of Black Forest's tanks were still active when they lost. Maho doesn't seem to be the sort to let anyone turn her sister into a scapegoat.
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Tags |
comedy, gup, original anime, slice of life, sports, tanks |
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