[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru - Ep. 5 End of the golden witch

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Wait, wait, wait. So, Erika used the Red Truth, but Battler overlooked it, because he has his own? What?

Erika red was so merciless that the "only" possibility here was Natsuhi as the culprit. However, Battler just nuked her with the gold truth: this corpse is Ushiromiya Kinzo's corpse!! (Erika reasoning is about Kinzo still alive, and she claimed there is NO way Battler can prove it is kinzo, no clues in the game can confirm it, so it goes against Knox commandement 6 and 8).
The gamemaster stance gave him privilege to claim a truth that cannot be denied in any way, not even Knox commandements.
That said, Battler didn't abuse it and again pulled some insane stunts (claiming he IS the culprit), again claiming that until it is disclosed, both their truths can be applied, while Erika was the split image of Battler back in Ep1-2.

I see; so, both Piece-Beato and Meta-Beato died.
Anyway, what would Battler revive her again? To kill her himself? Seriously, everyone in the Meta-world is very, very fickle.

Piece Beato definitely died, and since she isn't exactly the same as Meta Beato, her death is meaningless, she will most likely re-appear.
Meta Beato disappeared on her own, so Battler will most likely try to revive her and end her legend. I'm not even sure if Battler mean it with "kill", especially considering his behavior.

[MeoTwister5]

Mang Kamar and Klash are fast. Well it's not like I have as much time to finish the story even though I've dropped all other none-essential activities until I finish Ep5.

And yes, Krauss is an idiot. He essentially tried to offset his risks by risking even more, potentially dragging down the entire family wealth with him. He's banking the entire family's status on gold that still may or may not exist, going so much as hiding his own father's death to buy some time.

[Rias]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Let's review the issue: ...
And I believe my list is oversimplifying the headlines.

Couple additional comments for the characters:


1> Even tho Krauss worked harder in ep4, had his Muska moment, in the end he's just as Kinzo said in ep1: he wastes so much money and just can't save any. He's probably the least of all problems; just make sure he doesn't make any bussiness decisions.

2>There are still salvation for Natsuhi, I think. That is, if her effort is recognized by the Ushiromiya head, and she loses her delusions. Ep5 is probably a good changing point for her; she needs to stop daydreaming about the unchangable past and move forward. I think she can still have a happy end if the next sucessor (whoever it is, Krauss is probably too late to be saved) acknowledges her effot.

4+9>The centerstage of ep3~4, Eva and Rosa. I think both of them needs some sort of huge changing moment in their life, just like how Natsuhi has in Ep5.


6+11>While I found it weird that it was never shown that Shannon showed any reaction towards George's death in ep5, perhaps they are still a good couple.

20>Meta-Battler is off on a good track. Having gained all that experience from ep1~5, and finally working towards finding out the real truth, instead of a conditional truth, he should be able to lead the game in a good direction.

22>LD probably made the biggest gamble ever in Umineko, to set up a game to Berun's liking, letting her win, and risking her to really leave that kakera. If dragging it out as long as possible is really her aim, then next game she would probably help Berun out.

[MeoTwister5]

Some more from me. Again, any corrections would be appreciated.

Spoiler for Ep5 Content.:

This starts from when Natsuhi converses with Kinzo to when the scene shifts to October 5, 1985 (one year before the events).

- She gets a vision of Kinzo talking to her. He tells her of his own struggles as the head of the family after the family's fall.
- He speaks (?) of his meeting with Beatrice after the war (?). He says without Beatrice he would not have succeeded as the heir.
- Natsuhi asks if Beato would help the family this time with Krauss, but Kinzo says it is mot likely. The true successor he says is not by blood but by the heart.
- Golden butterflies appear and take Beato's form.
- She and Kinzo talk about Kinzo's use of domination and arrogance to get what he wants (?). They debate the truth of proper leadership (?).
- Natsuhi realizes that true leadership is trying one's best to overcome obstacles. She explains that Krauss is the new head and she is his wife, and that they will find a way to solve this.
- Kinzo regrest why that Natsuhi wasn't his son instead.
- Kinzo and Beato talk about a family head issue I cannot decipher (heh).
- Beato says she cannot grant the gold to Natsuhi, being bound by contract to Kinzo.
- Scene returns with everyone in Kinzo's study. Natsuhi takes control of the situation.
- Natsuhi insists that everyone think of Kinzo as alive and well, and that he just refuses to leave his study due to research. They will take control of Kinzo's outside actions.
- She instructs everyone to play along and make others believe he is still alive, at least until the debts are repaid.
- They apparently decide to use the island to hide his corpse. Without a corpse no one can verify that he is dead. She says it will come out like magic.
- Scene change to Natsuhi talking with Kinzo again. One of them says that the body is safe (can't confirm who says this).
- Natsuhi tries to thank Beato but she refuses.

This begins from Oct 5, 1985, the MetaWorld scene in between, to just before we return to Oct 5.

- The rose garden is described to have beautiful flowers.
- Kinzo complements Kanon for keeping it beautiful. He asks about the status of the debt repayment.
- Natsuhi says it is going as planned (?). He then mentions the family council today.
- Beatrice appears on the balcony and says that a relative that has strong anti-magic power could cause problems.
- With the relatives arriving, Kinzo will return to the study, asking for some tea.
- Natsuhi is worried that if he is exposed to this relative with anti-magic toxins, the magic of Kinzo's "life" will be cancelled.
- Natsuhi and Beato talk about tea and some other little things. Beato leaves after a while. Natsuhi then returns to the mansion.

MetaWorld

- Lambda asks if there are any issues at this point. Bern has no objections.
- Lambda asks in red if Kinzo's already dead at this point since he's walking around outside the house. This is apparently just a taunting jab at Battler.
- Battler is irritated at this imitation of Beato and asks her to stop.
- Lambda seems to taunt him more about how he's walking about even if he's
already dead.
- Red text says that Kinzo's been dead before this starts (probably Battler).
- He reasons it's just the conspirators pretending he's alive.
- Lambda says it is Natsuhi's magic of lies to revive people (?)
- I think Battler believes that he cannot exactly believe everything he is shown given that the characters are living a lie (?).
- Bern congratulates Battler, but he asks her to remain quiet.
- Lambda then says it becomes Natsuhi's word against his (or everyone else's probably). She asks about Beato's presence then.
- Battler seems to reason that this Beato is some other person employed to keep the lie from being exposed. Bern says Battler will not be caught by childish tricks any longer.
- Battler says in blue that he thinks everyone's just following the lie that Kinzo is alive but really dead so that everyone's beliefs will coincide, and that they will relay his words in the same manner he would say them. He says that they can follow this because they say that Kinzo is locked up in his room and his existence cannot be (?) verified.
- Battler remembers how Kinzo was always in his room and his existence cannot be verified in the previous games. The conspirators can say they just met him a while ago in his room, and this will be trusted. Only those party to the plot can enter his room and confirm his life, so all their stories will match.
- He says in blue that this is because they need all their stories to match and keep the lie of Kinzo being alive.
- Battler issues his rebuttal to the witches. They talk about magical medicines and stuff and this Knox Article 4 thing.
- Bern says that this Knox 4 rule means that use of weird medicines and science is not allowed in the game.
- Bern mocks Battler about this line of reasoning that will make him lose (?).
- She says that Battler didn't really fight Beato head on but at an angle. I think she means that Battler did not stick to his Mystery perspective by entrtaining possibly magical possibilities.
- Bern mentions about beating the witch only by a true Mystery solution rather than borderline magic ones. She mentions Knox 3, that no secret passageways are allowed.
- I believe that Bern is telling Battler that his overreliance on these theories convolutes his stance in the Mystery POV, and that this would have left him to lose.
- Battler remembers some rules made by a guy named Knox about these mystery
rules. He remembers that he must take the firm mystery stance.
- The witches giggle about something I don't get and Battler asks them to be quiet.
- They start talking about Beato's condition.
- The witches apparently mean that even though Beato isn't exactly the current opponent, she is still affected by Battler's moves, evident I think by the sweat on her brow.
- Battler remembers his vow to defeat Beato and I think also let her die.

This is the long MetaWorld scene after the events of October 5, 1985.

- Battler is observing these events from his vantage with Beato.
- Beato mumbles something. Battler tries to hand her some tea. He uses her hand to carry the tea to her mouth.
- Beato slurps her tea. Battler seems to reminisces how they were slashing each other with red and blue before, now he's letting her drink tea. He tells her how good this tea is. Beato still does not answer.
- Battler is a bit frustrated thinking this might be another one of her strategies. He asks her to laugh.
- Bern arrives and Battler says something about not taking her ability to laugh (?).
- Bern congratulates him about Beato or something. Apparently Battler won the previous torture game and that Beato's soul was killed (?) and fell, leaving this doll body thing. He asks if he did this.
- Battler asks why this thing isn't ending. Bern mentions about Lambda's rule that you cannot yield or resign or something.
- Both witches are apparently assisting their respective sides when one tries to yield (?).
- Lambda apparently refuses to let Beato lose by resigning. She's now in this state because of Battler but there is not true end?
- Battler knows they both fought their best, however Beato had recognized defeat the previous game and thus was left in this state.
- He thinks their game is already over but Beato doesn't have the true resolution she is looking for. He could go back but he still needs to give Beato her proper end (?). He will fight for his family's sake.
- Bern mumbles something about killing Beato. I think it's about Battler killing her swiftly?
- Bern says she's betting on him, and says in red that he cannot return until the game is concluded with finality.
- He restates his responsibility to fight and will not abandon the game
- They wonder about how to kill Beato properly?
- Battler and Bern are in the sidelines discussing the current events. They discuss whether Beato really exists there with Natsuhi drinking tea(?)
- Bern mentions Lambda as the narrator of this game, and that there is some scene interpretations in it.
- Battler thinks this is Natsuhi's delusions, and I think Beato is struck by these words.
- He acknowledges that there are no red truths to confirm the presence of another person as Beato on the island. He admits you cannot exactly deny the possibility that this is a real person drinking with Natsuhi since you cannot directly observe it (Shroedinger's Cat).
- Bern shatters it with red text that probably means that Natsuhi is drinking alone, since Game Beato disappears.
- Natsuhi is now seen drinking alone. I conclude that Beato was never there to begin with. She was probably never there in any of the scenes (?).
- Meta Beato groans with blood dripping.
- Battler remembers Bern's words of torture likend to pulling off fingernails, and that he should try to make Beato's death as painless as he can out of benevolence.
- Scene switch to the actual game. Natsuhi is now alone.
- Battler admonishes Bern for using the red truth which hurts Beato. He tells her to use it only when necessary to avoid excess damage to Beato. This should only be used on the two days, October 5 and 6 of 1986.
- Lots of talk about the heart, Bern's playing and the like. Battler gets irritated and tells her to begone because this is between him and Beato.
- Evil face Bern says she also enjoys this game and leaves with a laugh.
- Beato is seen still catatonic, superimposed on the scene with Natsuhi.
- He talks to Beato about Lambda and Virgilia. I think he talks to her about her choice in friends or something. Beato doesn't answer.
- He lets her drink some more.

This section runs between the scenes prior the events, the metaworld scene after, and just before the council begins

1986 (Date unconfirmed, probably October 4, 1986)
- Scene is now Jessica on the phone with Battler. They talk about things after not speaking for 6 years.
- Natsuhi and Krauss are apparently talking with some businessmen about construction plans.
- Krauss and Natsuhi are now outside the room talking. He tells her that things are apparently turning out very well with his connections to the governor.
- Natsuhi apparently still has misgivings.
- Natsuhi wonders why things are only shaping up now and not last year. She wants things done by the time of the family council.
- Krauss is apparently very cautious in his dealings. She thinks he lacks courage.
- Scene goes to Kinzo's room where he speaks with Beato. She apologizes to Kinzo where she says he might not be able to rest
- He says since he's no longer the head he will follow the new head's decisions.
- Beato says something about the constant use of magic will bring about it's fulfillment or something similar. Natsuhi just has to believe in it.
- She warns that the doubting person who has anti-magic abilities will be here so they should be guarded. They are also guarded against any attempts by the servants to admit the truth.

MetaWorld

- Battler talks about how none of them every saw Kinzo that day. He now knows that Natsuhi was doing it to protect the family head's honor.
- He begins to wonder the truth about how many people were really on that island, and Beato groans.
- He covers her wound and says in blue that since there is no indication as to the true status of Kinzo and the others on that day, he sees no true contradiction of the current scene.
- He says in blue that since his concern is only denying Beato on the 5th and 6th, whether or not she is there before that is not important to him.
- Beato still does not react to Battler.
- He says he wants to know why this Beato did what she did, her true intentions and the like. Beato reacts with a nod!
- He admits that while the witches have control of the board, it is still a match between him and Beato.

[Kamar]

Spoiler for Alright, lets start today's summaries!:

Back in the game world, Battler is beginning to calm down. Not quite sure what it says after that, then it talks about Erika proving her reasoning, and how she doesn't actually care what kind of fallout solving it causes. If the mystery is a lock, normally you would want to get behind that lock, but Erika just wants to unlock it for itself. She doesn't feel responsible for what happens afterward. Battler thinks perhaps the true storm Rokkenjima has received is not the typhoon, but her. She won't conceal this victory, the result will be announced absolutely. A true storm will start. Erika will announce it laughing, and the relatives will raise an uproar. For her, that is sweeter than 20 billion yen worth of gold.

Someone is knocking. Natsuhi is running to answer, having dozed while thinking about how to get past the problem of the study tomorrow. She wonders what it is, at such a time, since normally the internal lines would be used. She shakes off the last of her drowsiness. Eva is yelling at the door for Kinzo, she wants to speak at once. Natsuhi is puzzled, since everyone should have gone to the guesthouse and...the main house door have been locked, maybe? Eva is there either way.

Natsuhi whispers through the door about the noise, prompting surprise from Eva on the other side about what she is doing in the study at such a time. She repeats that they need to be quiet, asking if they forgot Kinzo values silence above all. She responds there is no time for such things in the current situation, and to open the door quickly. Honorable Father is put out? I think Natsuhi says to come back tomorrow. Then she asks her to open it again? Natsuhi doesn't like the way things are going. She can't open the door, because Eva will come in and find out.

The phone rings suddenly. Natsuhi is suddenly a little less worried, remembering the key to the study is with her, and the door is unopenable. She answers the phone.

It's Krauss on the line, and he says there is a predicament. They tell her to come to the drawing room. His voice is tense, and Natsuhi wonders what has happened. He says that Battler and Erika solved the epitaph and found the gold. Natsuhi is stunned, and asks if he is sure. Battler said he will lead everyone to the gold once they all gather.

Natsuhi understands why Eva is at the door now, and tells Klauss she is trying to get in. Klauss says he understands, and is on his way, and not to worry about her. He says to...get out and lock the door when she can, maybe? Klauss and Genji immediately head upstairs? Klauss and Eva argue, then Klauss signals Natsuhi. She comes outside when Klauss gets Eva aside, and quickly closes the door behind her. Eva notices, but misinterprets?

She seems to not care either way, and immediately repeats what we already know, that the gold was found. I think she wants to report to Kinzo? Then, I think she suggests that maybe Kinzo can't be informed for some reason. Klauss tries to defuse her, saying they have been strictly ordered not to bother Kinzo with anything. He says it is his duty to follow that order, and asks Genji to confirm it. Genji agrees, and Eva becomes less sure of herself, although she still thinks the solving of the epitaph is an exception.

Natsuhi says they will report it the next day. Eva is mad, and is still wondering why Natsuhi was in the room. She starts pounding on the door again. Krauss stops her by force, telling her to stop being noisy. Genji separates them, saying Kinzo is resting, and to please keep from making further racket. They stop fighting. Klauss imagines Eva has a respect from childhood still for Genji, so she yields temporarily. They still need to see the gold, then Natsuhi can figure out what to do. She feels the situations that keep erupting are mocking her efforts.

Psuedo-meta (Natsuhi delusion?) starts.
Beatrice seems shocked that Battler solves the epitaph. Kinzo confirms that he did, adding that he was helped considerably by Erika, but Erika abandoned the right to the Golden Land. Therefore, Battler is the one who has reached the Golden Land.

Ronove thinks it is interesting that Battler reached. Virgillia mentions that Beatrice is supposed to stop the ceremony if the inscription is solved, which Kinzo agrees with, as does Beatrice, although she looks bothered. Ronove says something about Battler reaching the Golden Land, maybe that the one who solves is always becomes their master? Virgilia says this is the destiny created by Goldsmith over several decades, and a happy time.

Gaap says some stuff that is kinda garbled, and Kinzo responds saying he has no regret, and something about going...somewhere? Beatrice says that isn't right?, and that she feels bad if she has to neglect her social obligation to Natsuhi because Battler solved it. She can't forgive a breach of contract, or ingratitude. I think Ronove and Virgilia agree they should continue to help Natsuhi get past this family council, at least?

Kinzo seems to agree that the person who supports his "stupid son" should be supported still. Beatrice says..something I can't decode. Kinzo says something about Natsuhi, then says the reward was prepared. It seems he is in favor of helping Natsuhi safely get past her trials, for now.

They go through the tunnel, and everyone is shocked speechless by the mountain of gold. Even if they believed it existed, seeing it is something completely different. Natsuhi and Klauss express shock, but can't disbelieve. Hideyoshi raised a ruckus, laughing and...hugging the wall of gold? Eva and Rosa freak out, hugging each other and crying. Everyone has different reaction on seeing the gold, but amazement is universal.

Erika acts as if it were a show, and she were the chairperson?Conductor?Host? She says the world is money, this is the crystal of happiness, and congratulates them. Kyrie takes her hat off to her, saying that if she hadn't come to the island they wouldn't have solved it. She says that Battler is more deserving of praise? Battler still looks put out, and says nothing. Erika continues, saying she abandons the discovery, satisfied enough to know her reasoning has been proven correct. Therefore, all credit/reward for the discovery goes to Battler. Then she tries to take her leave, saying something about a true family council? I think she is implying Battler's new head status or something along those lines?

Battler stops her, saying not to do...something without permission? Erika apologizes, and asks who should be coordinator of the proceedings. She looks around at everyone. After a moment, Eva speaks first, implying a decision made now may be 'forgotten' in the light of day? Rudolph mentions something along the lines of 2.5 billion for each of the four, and 10 billion for the next head of family. Natsuhi interrupts, asking who decided the discovery of gold determined the next head. Hideyoshi interrupts Natsuhi, saying it is a subject they have pursued and determined already, and arguing against it at this late point it improper? Rosa agrees? Klauss says something cruel as a counter, triggering an outburst from Eva that all the members recognize it. Rudolph says something along the lines of "there you go, Klauss", and Kyrie agrees.

Natsuhi is still raging, saying interpreting the inscription as they like is wrong. She says that it isn't written anywhere that the one who finds the gold is the next head, and the true interpretation is up to Kinzo, that they have no right to decide it on their own. Klauss tells her to settle down, but Natsuhi won't keep quiet, asking Klauss if he is going to keep silent about it. She says Battler showed impressive skill and such in solving the epitaph, but this interpretation is clearly a deviation, that there is nothing to prove the next head is determined by this.

Rosa starts yelling at her, pointing out their reasoning from the day; suggesting Natsuhi is changing her tune? Rudolph agrees, there is an unwritten law of the family that the solver of the inscription is the next head of family, and it is unfair to suddenly deny it at the last moment.

Natsuhi continues to rage, saying the gold is Kinzo's gold anyways, and they can't distribute it without his permission. Hideyoshi tells her to stop being unfair, and...says something about the truth/story of daytime? Eva says they must decide with a majority vote, whether Battler, who discovered the gold, succeeds as the next head of the family. She and Hideyoshi have no objection, then she asks Rudolph and Rosa. They agree too, that Battler is the heir chosen by the inscription. Rosa adds that if they don't like it, they only have to ask Kinzo himself. Kyrie agrees it is Kinzo's decision and gold. She looks a little sly as she asks if they should just ask Kinzo directly, how Battler is to be treated.

Natsuhi gets tongue-tied, as does Klauss. Eva agrees with Rosa and Kyrie; they'll ask Kinzo directly. She starts raging, mentioning how they prevented her from talking to him, and how they haven't seen him.

Erika asks Battler if the family council is always like this. He said something like...I dunno, or I'll learn, or something? Erika starts laughing about money and how it is making them act. Battler seems appalled, this being the first time he's seen this kind of behavior.

After they exhaust themselves arguing, they return to the manor. They are all nervous, however, that someone will go back and steal he gold, even though it is impossible for it to happen, the sight of 10t of gold stole their judgment. So, they agreed to quickly get their possessions from the guesthouse, and meet back up to continue the conference.

The scene cuts to Erika outside the mansion. She is asking to be excused for the evening, as her further presence would be an intrusion. Rudolph and Rosa thank her, with Rosa apologizing for showing her such a scene.

Eva mentions her forsaking the treasure, but tells her they will prepare a suitable share for the first discoverer, and prompts Klauss to agree. She says not to worry about her. The point of finding the gold was to prover her reasoning, and she got to see something nice. Eva says oh well.

There is a line about...uh...Erika's wickedness and lack of consideration not being seen, maybe? They return to the guesthouse with Erika.

However, Kyrie grabs Battler's shoulder, saying, "This is no good!." I think she and Hideyoshi are saying he should come with them, something about the head? Natsuhi gets mad again, saying the only one to decide is Kinzo, that they shouldn't decide selfishly. I think Rudolph tells Battler to...keep quiet, and let him handle things?

Battle tells him to do as he likes. He knows saying he is uninterested in being head would only pour oil on the fire. He wouldn't have said anything even if Rudolph hadn't told him to. Battler goes into the guesthouse.

Meta scene starts

[rtic]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

That said, Battler didn't abuse it and again pulled some insane stunts (claiming he IS the culprit), again claiming that until it is disclosed, both their truths can be applied, while Erika was the split image of Battler back in Ep1-2.

How would Battler claiming that he is the culprit work with Knox commandment 1? Weren't we exposed to game-piece Battler's thoughts by having him be the narrator in EP5?

Or maybe I'm confused about how that rule works.

[MeoTwister5]

Good lord the metaworld conversations between Bern and Battler are horrendously garbled.

[metronome]

Originally Posted by Kamar

Spoiler for Alright, lets start today's summaries!:

Back in the game world, Battler is beginning to calm down. Not quite sure what it says after that, then it talks about Erika proving her reasoning, and how she doesn't actually care what kind of fallout solving it causes. If the mystery is a lock, normally you would want to get behind that lock, but Erika just wants to unlock it for itself. She doesn't feel responsible for what happens afterward. Battler thinks perhaps the true storm Rokkenjima has received is not the typhoon, but her. She won't conceal this victory, the result will be announced absolutely. A true storm will start. Erika will announce it laughing, and the relatives will raise an uproar. For her, that is sweeter than 20 billion yen worth of gold.

scene change

I do know some detectives act like this in some detective stories. Basically, they care only solving the mystery/puzzles. What happened afterwards they dont care. I am not really a big fan of this kind of detective~~

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by metronome

I do know some detectives act like this in some detective stories. Basically, they care only solving the mystery/puzzles. What happened afterwards they dont care. I am not really a big fan of this kind of detective~~

She kind of reminds me of Poirot, a little.

...And now I just imagined Poirot as a loli. GOD DAMN IT.

[Battler Ushiromiya]

Originally Posted by Cruor

Spoiler for uhhh:

Battler will be the Gameboard Master in 6. After Beato dies Battler is really pissed ends up going complete Witch (he was previously only working for the Witch side as he wanted to be the one to beat Beato) and starts out with Ronove appearing then followed by Gaap then you see an image of Smothered Mate wielded by Virgilla by this point Erika is going 'what the hell is going on?' then all the Stakes appear and REALLY start torturing her. From what I've seen Erika was in tears by the end. Then I believe she has a similar deceleration to the one Battler did in 1.

That would make sense, ahh so many twists and whatnot! Can't wait to see that. Hey thanks alot for the info 8D

[Kamar]

Spoiler for Meta world~:

Battler has a weird expression, and seems surprised that the inscription was solved? He says something about hope way? Beato doesn't say anything. He wonders aloud about the letter that always comes from her, saying to solve the inscription, and the murders will stop. Beato doesn't respond. He wonders if/why she wanted them to solve the mystery of the inscription. Something about previously reaching mountains of gold? And if they do, what does Beato gain? Or, does she lose?

He says that one doesn't make a disadvantageous move, if you are following the idea of chess. Therefore, she is sure to gain something if they solve the inscription. Virgilia appears, and denies this. She says in red, "This child doesn't obtain anything if someone solves the inscription. "

Battler says thats nice, her using the red without permission in a way that isn't refusing him? Virgilia says Beato would hope for it. Battler ponders her doing so. He mentions the idea that has been brought up several times, that they are being told to solve it so the "Beatrice" in the letter can steal it. He asks if that is wrong too. Virgilia agrees it is wrong. She says, uh, want to get a clear translation for this?


Think it just says the gold is theirs, and it isn't to be stolen? Or maybe the gold was originally Beatrice, so there is no need to steal it? I'm not sure.

Battler thinks, That's how it is. Beato is Beatrice of gold. Master of the Golden Land and Ushiromiya advising alchemist. However, knowing this, he can't reason it out. There is nothing gained by Beato if someone exposes the mystery of the inscription. He ponders it more, voicing aloud thoughts about the ceremony to revive power of a witch and revenge on the Ushiromiya family. Beato says nothing.

He wants to know what reason/meaning there is to "Solve the mystery of the Inscription". She has nothing to gain whether or not they solve it. In other words, the question of whether or not it is solvable is valueless for Beato. Virgilia agrees, repeating in red "There is nothing obtained for this child whether the mystery of the inscription is solved or not."

Battler repeats this, and puzzles over it, thinking it is a mystery then why she would challenge them with it if she gains nothing either way. Beato says nothing. Virgilia says the mystery of it has no meaning for her either. Beato says nothing. Battler wonder's to himself, why Beato challenged them to solve the epitaph.

Something about the balance of the homicides on one side, and the mystery of the epitaph on the other, since she says she will stop the inscription murders if the mystery is solved. The value of the murders and the mystery is, in a word, identical for Beato, creating a balance. However, Virgilia has said in red Beato gains nothing if they solve it. He thinks then, the value of the murders must be different, I think? He tries to think. Um...the value of the inscription only holds if Beato voluntarily stops the murders, I think?

Then he thinks X=Y. And nothing is obtained by Beato whether it is solved or not. Y=0. Then...X.....Beato is silent. Battler says to give him a break. Even if the value is nothing, every time she puts out a strange challenge, and laboriously follows the strange order of serial murders. The meaning is lost? He turned the chess board over, and felt for Beato's reasons.

It can't be revenge? It'd be easy to poison everyone and rest easily at night, knowing they would die in their sleep(?). Beato, though, sends out her notice letter on the first evening. Serial murders of three degrees are done separately. After the first and second murders, everyone is paranoid and all work to provide alibis.

The more the victims increases, the smaller the suspect pool becomes. Beato approaches and the success rate of the serial murders approaches zero? All of the inscription murders follow the instructions of the epitaph. It is filled with useless decoration and vanity.

Battler says aloud, Beato is raising the difficulty for herself. Virgilia agrees, she is a strange child. Battler asks if she knows, in a mystery novel such a homicide following rules is called "Choosing homicide.(I'm sure there is a correct English term for this, anyone know?)"

He says something about reasoning and the three possibilities, and Virgilia says...she'll listen to his reasoning? He continues, saying the purpose is to deceive, and take advantage of evidence and the alibi of the criminal....something along the inscription? Ah, they pretend to have died, and mix themselves in with the victims. The homicide is done according to the inscription, and the alibi is made from a misunderstanding of that, or something???

Virgilia agrees that may be so. They pretend to be ceremonially killing according to the inscription, to take advantage of the perception, then something about the truth. She is looking forward to it? He continues, though, saying the finishing blow is destroyed with the red. Even if the game board world can be deceived, the players cannot.

He then suggests another possibility, that the serial murders follow the inscription by chance, and it is misunderstood by bystanders to be a "choosing homicide". Humans tend to see cause and effect/associate things that seem to be together. Virgilia agrees that is also possible. It is interesting;...something? There is always a warning before the first night's murder in Beato's game. And the letter and circumstantial evidence shows the murders of the inscription are performed one after another.

Battler agrees, saying it isn't by chance. Beato shows the inscription from the start, then it is accomplished. It is clearly a "choosing homicide". Therefore, that reasoning is also incorrect. Virgilia asks for his last idea.

Something about fear? Along with the inscription is clear beforehand notice of the serial murders. Survivors are terrified because the murders are sure to continue according to the inscription. Beato says nothing. Virgilia says, in other words, Beato...the inscription murder is to make them taste the terror of death?

Battler says the reasoning is good. The grotesque state of the remains, and the bad taste all around inspire fear in them all. Virgilia asks who is the target/what is the goal of this fear. Battler is unable to answer. Virgilia's question is casual, but his idea/mind/reasoning becomes fogged/misty again. He thinks. There are a number of potential grudges against much of the family, but to do this requires a resentfulness on another level, if they want to give fear and take revenge.

He compares it to a dessert, the strawberry shortcake, the last enjoyment???? He thinks they leave the person they have the strongest grudge against til the last minute. He quotes a character from a novel he likes, I think?

"The person in question is killed at the end after it kills previously from that person's intimate person, and the pain is experienced". I think it's talking about the pain caused by killing someone's loved ones before you kill them?

Virgilia laughs, saying it is a frightening novel. Battler continues; the guy who survives to the last minute, Beato's grudge, can be figured out through logic. The orders of the other murders is always changing, but there is always a last person who is either the goal of the grudge or the criminal(I think that's what it's saying here? Kinda super-garbled) Battler turns silent for a while, and Beato is silent as well. He finishes; he is the one left every time. Virgilia agrees to say something in red.

"Battler is not a criminal. Battler doesn't kill anyone(I think?). This is true in all games."

Battler says something about the reason for the inscription is to show him? Beato is random in her order of who she kills every time, except she never kills him. He is always left until the last minute. He asks aloud if she wants revenge on him. If the inscription murder is so he is made to taste fear.

Virgilia says that is wrong. She says in red it is not to make someone taste fear. It is not to take revenge on someone either. Battler looks agitated. He says there is no meaning to the inscription murder? The murders are meaningless, a pair with the meaningless epitaph mystery. X=Y=0!

However, Beato still clearly shows him these things. He asks why a game that is so meaningless is played? He doesn't know. The more he thinks, and the more he tries to understand Beato, the more confused he gets?? Beato is silent.

The capricious witch who commits meaningless, valueless serial murders. Beatrice. The mystery of the inscription that is the condition for the discontinuation of the murders is also meaningless and valueless. And that meaningless and valuelessness is pointed at Battler.

He wants to know what the reason is. The idea that he is having revenge taken on him has been denied in red by Virgilia. Neither X nor Y (I think?). There is nothing significant to Beato in the mystery or the homicide.

X=Y=0. However, it points at him, definitely. The balance "If the mystery cannot be solved, the inscription murder is executed" is presented to them. Neither the mystery nor the homicide are significant alone? It rides on both ends of the balance and meaning appears pointed at him?
X=0.
Y=0.
X+Y>0.
Balance is accomplished with meaningless, weighless something. However, it accompanies weight, and means it?

It isn't a game at all(I think?).

He says it is similar to Rock Paper Scissors, a random generator that creates victory or defeat. Children don't bet anything on it, it is just free play. Nothing of happiness or regret arises if nothing is bet.

However, there is meaning in playing Rock Paper Scissors, even if there is none in winning or losing. The children enjoy the communication(?). Value doesn't come from victory or defeat.

Battler says aloud this idea, that the only thing he can think is that the process itself is what is being gained? Virgilia is silent. He continues, saying in his case, it is abusing him repeatedly(or something), and...something about being their entertainment? Virgilia says thanks, then decides to say something else in red.

"Beato never enjoys the murders (I think?)." Here, for more accuracy



Gonna break here to get something to eat~

[SirWence]

Originally Posted by Battler Ushiromiya

That would make sense, ahh so many twists and whatnot! Can't wait to see that. Hey thanks alot for the info 8D

though we were warned the way that quote was that you spoke, of was slightly misleading - at least in certain terms.

[Risa chan]

X=0.
Y=0.
X+Y>0

Allright , I'll be surprised to understand how it is possible.

[Kamar]

Originally Posted by Risa chan

X=0.
Y=0.
X+Y>0

Allright , I'll be surprised to understand how it is possible.

It might have been unclear since I suck, but that was answered; the meaning is in the balance and the playing of the game itself, not in either X(The murders) or Y(the epitaph mystery).

[MeoTwister5]

Guys [****otto] refers to Rudolph and [ri**] Maria right? The rest are anglicizations of phonetics to match their names.

[Risa chan]

So it means. There's no Murders, and no mysteries.Or it's That's not the Murders nor the Mysteries wich gives more than 0 for ?? Beatrice is the balance?
MAths: X=0 Y=0 X+Y=0

For Umineko it is. There must be another Z Somewhere and this Z would be what Beatrice is looking for in this game (love? Eternal Sleep?) , or does it mean that Bern can create a miracle? Bleh i'm lost @_@

[Marion]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Guys [****otto] refers to Rudolph and [ri**] Maria right? The rest are anglicizations of phonetics to match their names.

otto means husband I believe, so I guess if Kyrie is talking then yeah. Not sure what you mean though.

[Kamar]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Guys [****otto] refers to Rudolph and [ri**] Maria right? The rest are anglicizations of phonetics to match their names.

Yeah, that's it.

Originally Posted by Risa chan

So it means. There's no Murders, and no mysteries.Or it's That's not the Murders nor the Mysteries wich gives more than 0 for ?? Beatrice is the balance?
MAths: X=0 Y=0 X+Y=0

For Umineko it is. There must be another Z Somewhere and this Z would be what Beatrice is looking for in this game (love? Eternal Sleep?) , or does it mean that Bern can create a miracle? Bleh i'm lost @_@

If the number represents "What meaning it has for Beatrice", then X(the murder)=0. She has no reason to kill them according to the inscription. Also, Y(the epitaph that stops the murders)=0. She gets nothing whether they solve the epitaph and the murders or not. HOWEVER, their is some hidden value for her, in arranging the opposition of Murders and Mystery, and aiming it all at Battler. X+Y>0

[Renall]

Originally Posted by Marion

otto means husband I believe, so I guess if Kyrie is talking then yeah. Not sure what you mean though.

The character for husband appears in Rudolf's name, so that's most likely him.

Originally Posted by Kamar

If the number represents "What meaning it has for Beatrice", then X(the murder)=0. She has no reason to kill them according to the inscription. Also, Y(the epitaph that stops the murders)=0. She gets nothing whether they solve the epitaph and the murders or not. HOWEVER, their is some hidden value for her, in arranging the opposition of Murders and Mystery, and aiming it all at Battler. X+Y>0

As I understand it from what you said, the conflict Battler is having is that he's trying to figure out a meaning behind Beatrice's actions but can't, yet he also realizes her actions cannot be meaningless because it makes no sense (and is essentially countered in red). Of course, the fact that he can't figure out the meaning doesn't mean there isn't one.

[Risa chan]

Originally Posted by Kamar

Yeah, that's it.




If the number represents "What meaning it has for Beatrice", then X(the murder)=0. She has no reason to kill them according to the inscription. Also, Y(the epitaph that stops the murders)=0. She gets nothing whether they solve the epitaph and the murders or not. HOWEVER, their is some hidden value for her, in arranging the opposition of Murders and Mystery, and aiming it all at Battler. X+Y>0

I see I understand, So there's another value wich will change the value of X and Y if we place them together.