Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[shin_lover77]

can anyone help translate this? thks

1/9より、「ignited -イグナイテッド-」にあわせ新たに映像を再編集した『ANIME MUSIC CLIP』（アニメミュージッククリップ）機動戦士ガンダムSEED DESTINY　「ignited -イグナイテッド-」を配信スタート!!!

是非チェックしてみてください!!

※本人映像ではなく、機動戦士ガンダムSEED DESTINYの映像になります。
※『ANIME MUSIC CLIP』は対応機種のみのサービスです。

[Neku]

^I reckon it's something about a new GundamSD anime music clip for the song "ignited".

But you better wait for a pro to translate. I'm just translating it according to my Chinese knowledge.

[Eidolon Sniper]

When was that posted, shin_lover77?

[bbduece]

i was thinking if they didnt create a failure charcter like shinn but made him more like Lelouch, GSD mighe have gotten better ratings and thus they would have made a gazillion dollars to entice the producers for a season3....

the movie cant come soon enough

and that wierd GS fanboy/fangirl that is posting on this thread ...... more power to you my friend lol.........

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by bbduece

i was thinking if they didnt create a failure charcter like shinn but made him more like Lelouch, GSD mighe have gotten better ratings and thus they would have made a gazillion dollars to entice the producers for a season3....

Destiny is a fundamentally different show from Code Geass, so a Lelouch-like character in Shinn's place probably wouldn't have worked. Besides, it did make a gazillion dollars for Bandai...

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Destiny is a fundamentally different show from Code Geass, so a Lelouch-like character in Shinn's place probably wouldn't have worked. Besides, it did make a gazillion dollars for Bandai...

Well, in this case I can see what bbduece meant by saying that it'd be great to replace Shinn with something like Lelouch. Though I am a huge fan of SEED, I was one of those who really expected the new protagonist to turn everything upside down. I liked him, anyway. But I think that it'd be so much better for the character, as well as for the whole show, if he indeed was like Lelouch. I'm this kind of SEED fan who wishes that Kira died in his duel with Shinn, for instance. Fukuda should have used a bit of Tomino's"kill'em all" recipe, which I really liked. Finishing off a couple of less popular characters did not seal the deal to me, really.

Lelouch Lamerouge is my second favorite anime character of all time and I am happy to watch the series that is so intricate that hardly anything really bad could be said about it. But still, if Shinn was more like him.... The SEED universe would have reached its perfect form.

[Neku]

Originally Posted by bbduece

i was thinking if they didnt create a failure charcter like shinn but made him more like Lelouch, GSD mighe have gotten better ratings and thus they would have made a gazillion dollars to entice the producers for a season3....

the movie cant come soon enough

and that wierd GS fanboy/fangirl that is posting on this thread ...... more power to you my friend lol.........

Mm.. I didn't think that Shinn failed as a character.
It's just the story; the way it goes imo.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

Well, in this case I can see what bbduece meant by saying that it'd be great to replace Shinn with something like Lelouch. Though I am a huge fan of SEED, I was one of those who really expected the new protagonist to turn everything upside down. I liked him, anyway. But I think that it'd be so much better for the character, as well as for the whole show, if he indeed was like Lelouch.

Unfortunately, such a major change would require that Destiny be a totally different show. The way Shinn works as a character is that he's largely incapable of self-analysis, which is what colors all of his actions. A non-insane Lelouch-like character would never have followed Durandal's lead.

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

I'm this kind of SEED fan who wishes that Kira died in his duel with Shinn, for instance. Fukuda should have used a bit of Tomino's"kill'em all" recipe, which I really liked. Finishing off a couple of less popular characters did not seal the deal to me, really.

I don't know... Killing characters off has never seemed like a substitute for good writing. And it's certainly this that the Seed shows would have benefited the most from. The only death that wasn't in both shows that would have been much improvement would have been if Mwu stayed dead.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Unfortunately, such a major change would require that Destiny be a totally different show. The way Shinn works as a character is that he's largely incapable of self-analysis, which is what colors all of his actions. A non-insane Lelouch-like character would never have followed Durandal's lead.

Of course that the show would be different. Better, in my opinion. With the character of Shinn designed more like Lelouch's one could invent lots of stories that'd ultimately make him side with Durandal and then die with vengeful Athrun in the blaze of glory (ok, that might be too much... maybe just cut Athrun's arm as it was intended by Fukuda in the first show ;D) :P Lelouch is similar to Shinn in two ways - he is driven by emotions, and that his emotions have something to do with his sister. To me, it's easy to imagine the brand new story that'd still maintain Durandall's scheme and basic concepts of the show, but the protagonist would be way cooler. AND there'd be less godly Kira pwnage and unnecessary viewpoint shifts such like the major one:

Spoiler for viewpoint change:

Shifting the scale of the show from Shinn to Kira and co.

Horrible step...There is the moment in Code Geass where one of the characters makes a speech that may justify Lelouch's deeds (warmongering, terrorism etc.) as he is shown as a person that strives for the little ray of happiness he believes in. Well, Shinn could be portrayed just the same - a man who kills and brings chaos and war, driven by his enduring memory of deceased sister and faith in "Destiny".

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I don't know... Killing characters off has never seemed like a substitute for good writing. And it's certainly this that the Seed shows would have benefited the most from. The only death that wasn't in both shows that would have been much improvement would have been if Mwu stayed dead.

I still think that Kira should've

Spoiler for character survival information:

died in the show

. In a cool way of course. Maybe even Amuro/Char way, like disappearing without trace in a huge explosion. No shot into cockpit. Nothing. It is up to the viewer to decide about the end. Imagine that: Mwu is not ressurected, Kira is 'killed'. And then... Yamato returns in the movie

[D-KLAC]

but because of GS fans kira lives again!!!

besides GS fans are really one of many that is GS.

& yet GSM is still very quiet.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

Lelouch is similar to Shinn in two ways - he is driven by emotions, and that his emotions have something to do with his sister. To me, it's easy to imagine the brand new story that'd still maintain Durandall's scheme and basic concepts of the show, but the protagonist would be way cooler.

Technically, Destiny already has a character who's even more similar to Lelouch: Durandal himself. Moreover, his actions shape and color the entire show more than any other character does. Heck, I even think that he's the protagonist. And as far as I'm concerned, there never was a change in focus away from Durandal.

The other way of looking at it is that Lelouch wouldn't work as a character who has to take orders from someone else. Furthermore, I think that Destiny is a better show than Code Geass is. **Boo! Hiss! Sacrilege!**

I also don't think that it would have made much difference whether Kira lived or not. Aside from setting up the traditional rivalry matchups, his character could have been written out without changing the show very much. It seems to me that the "is he dead or isn't he?" bait and switch is more likely to just tick viewers off more than accomplish anything constructive.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Technically, Destiny already has a character who's even more similar to Lelouch: Durandal himself. Moreover, his actions shape and color the entire show more than any other character does. Heck, I even think that he's the protagonist. And as far as I'm concerned, there never was a change in focus away from Durandal.

The other way of looking at it is that Lelouch wouldn't work as a character who has to take orders from someone else. Furthermore, I think that Destiny is a better show than Code Geass is. **Boo! Hiss! Sacrilege!**

Durandal is similar to Lelouch only in the fact that both of them are cunning and both are pragmatists. But there are way too many differences - beginning from the level of focus in the series and ending on such 'trivia' as appearance or age (yes, age DOES matter to me ). Oh, and did I mention political significance? I think that in this case having the ZAFT Chairman of council as the main character would not be as interesting (not to use the word 'cool' :P) as a hyperintelligent pilot with genius strategic mind Lelouch-Shinn could be. If Durandal's grand scheme would appeal to Lelouch-Shinn, I think it could as well be based on a kind of cooperation. Something like relationship between Dullindal and Athrun as his FAITH.

And yeah, we differ on so many matters. Especially when I read your text that you think Destiny is better than Code Geass. I was like... WHAAA? But hey, now that's a specific taste in anime. No otaku I talked to had such

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I also don't think that it would have made much difference whether Kira lived or not. Aside from setting up the traditional rivalry matchups, his character could have been written out without changing the show very much. It seems to me that the "is he dead or isn't he?" bait and switch is more likely to just tick viewers off more than accomplish anything constructive.

I'd think that it'd not "tick off" anyone. However, in that case the whole show should just be more dramatic and tragic than this "walk in the park" Fukuda served to us for Kira in the second season. Then his 'death' would be accepted much better, I suppose. If it was moving enough and cool enough.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

Durandal is similar to Lelouch only in the fact that both of them are cunning and both are pragmatists.

I won't abuse the point, but there are quite a bit more similarities, particularly in terms of tactics.

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

I think that in this case having the ZAFT Chairman of council as the main character would not be as interesting (not to use the word 'cool' :P) as a hyperintelligent pilot with genius strategic mind Lelouch-Shinn could be. If Durandal's grand scheme would appeal to Lelouch-Shinn, I think it could as well be based on a kind of cooperation. Something like relationship between Dullindal and Athrun as his FAITH.

The goal of Durandal's relationship with Athrun was to use him as a puppet. That's sort of the point of both Lelouch and Durandal's characters - they have to be in control, and they do everything in their power to achieve that.

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

I'd think that it'd not "tick off" anyone. However, in that case the whole show should just be more dramatic and tragic than this "walk in the park" Fukuda served to us for Kira in the second season. Then his 'death' would be accepted much better, I suppose. If it was moving enough and cool enough.

The problem is that it pretty much can't be done without cheating the audience. This is the same reason so many of us didn't like Mwu coming back in Destiny - and it didn't matter whether or not we saw his helmet floating in space.



Off-topic:

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

And yeah, we differ on so many matters. Especially when I read your text that you think Destiny is better than Code Geass. I was like... WHAAA? But hey, now that's a specific taste in anime. No otaku I talked to had such

While there's certainly things that I didn't like about Destiny, none of them rival how I feel about the lost opportunities in the latter part of Code Geass Season 1. I still like Code Geass, but I've got a lot of reservations about it (and I get a feeling that Season 2 won't turn out very well).

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I won't abuse the point, but there are quite a bit more similarities, particularly in terms of tactics.

I totally don't see it. To me, those characters have much different air.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

The goal of Durandal's relationship with Athrun was to use him as a puppet. That's sort of the point of both Lelouch and Durandal's characters - they have to be in control, and they do everything in their power to achieve that.

Well, then it'd be good to change Dullindal's goals as far as his relationship with Lelouch-Shinn is considered. Make it into a trusting relationship of two idealists and we have a nice counterbalance of strong characters that follow Destiny plan against the all-knowing "humanist" Kira, Lacus and co. Even now as I see in the other topics people have doubts about Dullindal's villanous nature. Making it even less clear and deepen Shinn's belief in the man and his plan would make the show even more ideologically ambiguous, thus more mature and less cheezy IMO

Originally Posted by 4Tran

The problem is that it pretty much can't be done without cheating the audience. This is the same reason so many of us didn't like Mwu coming back in Destiny - and it didn't matter whether or not we saw his helmet floating in space.

Mwu is a much more different thing. As I said, the major should not have returned ever. With both Mwu dead and Kira supposedly KIA, it'd be a great dramatic round-up of both SEED series.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Off-topic:

While there's certainly things that I didn't like about Destiny, none of them rival how I feel about the lost opportunities in the latter part of Code Geass Season 1. I still like Code Geass, but I've got a lot of reservations about it (and I get a feeling that Season 2 won't turn out very well).

Well, that's your taste then, so I really don't see the point to argue here

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

Well, then it'd be good to change Dullindal's goals as far as his relationship with Lelouch-Shinn is considered. Make it into a trusting relationship of two idealists and we have a nice counterbalance of strong characters that follow Destiny plan against the all-knowing "humanist" Kira, Lacus and co.

We already sort of had that with the Durandal and Ray duo. The style of Destiny was to not spell out the Destiny Plan until the very end, so what you're proposing would be a very different show. Moreover, it also seems to fall into the pitfall of not really working as a Gundam show.

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

Even now as I see in the other topics people have doubts about Dullindal's villanous nature. Making it even less clear and deepen Shinn's belief in the man and his plan would make the show even more ideologically ambiguous, thus more mature and less cheezy IMO

I don't think the Destiny audience was ready for more ambiguity. As it is, there's a lot of viewers who have a hard time accepting that Durandal was the villain.

[Mr. DJ]

Originally Posted by silverdirt

Mm.. I didn't think that Shinn failed as a character.
It's just the story; the way it goes imo.

I was just highly annoyed that Shinn started off as a main character, then got shelved to like a 3rd banana once Kira came back. Failed story, failed director, failed main character...::sigh::

[Neku]

Yep. There were tons of ways that the writer could have developed Shinn. But what's done is done. We'll just have to accept it Afterall, Destiny was pretty educational. It sorta tells us that this world doesn't have only black or white; it has grey and other colors too.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by silverdirt

Yep. There were tons of ways that the writer could have developed Shinn. But what's done is done. We'll just have to accept it Afterall, Destiny was pretty educational. It sorta tells us that this world doesn't have only black or white; it has grey and other colors too.

No, Destiny was completely black and white. There were no shades of grey or other colors as you say. In GSD, you were either good or evil. Its that simple.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

We already sort of had that with the Durandal and Ray duo.

We had that and it was a weak duo. One mind-rape made by Kira supposed to mess up everything Dullindal built and raised within Rey throughout years. WTF?

Originally Posted by 4Tran

The style of Destiny was to not spell out the Destiny Plan until the very end, so what you're proposing would be a very different show.

Yup. And again, I think that'd be a much better show.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Moreover, it also seems to fall into the pitfall of not really working as a Gundam show.

Why? There'd be tragic conflict, two sides. Eventually, Lacus' side might win, but for bigger price. Destiny had a great chance to be exceptional and even more intense than SEED but they messed it all up. And as I see so far many users here shall probably agree: The fact that Shinn lost his main protagonist status on the course of the show was catastrophic.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I don't think the Destiny audience was ready for more ambiguity. As it is, there's a lot of viewers who have a hard time accepting that Durandal was the villain.

I think he was indeed a villain. It's easy to make an interesting one that is just a heartless Machiavellist. But still, he'd make a great mentor. The idea of a perfect world may really appeal to someone who really has nothing really to rely on but his memories of people he lost (Shinn).

Of course it does not have to be that extreme to turn Shinn into Lelouch. It was just one of my ideas. But why I chose this character? Because it was a great example of how to make a likable villain who would also do just great as the main protagonist of the show. When I first saw the poster of grim-faced Shinn walking with a gun, I thought - now, that's great, a dark hero! But then Shinn just turned out to be yet another combination of Kira-like crybaby and Athrun-like harsh soldier with "yasashii" heart... Bleh, and he started so wel.l.. First half of the season was very exciting to me.

[4Tran]

Hmm... All of my comments concern just Destiny, so I'll post them in the other thread.