(L) Monogatari Series Light Novel discussion

[omimon]

Originally Posted by LotionExplosion

I'm Guessing he doesn't want the wincest to be animated.

I don't know about you, but I would LOVE to see how Shaft handles the wincest scenes and the loli scene with shinobu in the bathtub. Truly a sight to behold. Either way, the wincest are best parts in the novels.

[LotionExplosion]

Originally Posted by omimon

I don't know about you, but I would LOVE to see how Shaft handles the wincest scenes and the loli scene with shinobu in the bathtub. Truly a sight to behold. Either way, the wincest are best parts in the novels.

*High Five*
OH yea, Although I've read some wincest scenes in this thread, but damn I wish there was more

[Kunagisa]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

huh ???????????????????????

Ok just finished, Nise 2, quite honestly, to me it is a disappointment.

Spoiler for Opinions with random spoilers:

Like ominion said, it's about Tsukihi, except ... Tsukihi has like 10% screen time with 5% of the lines. In fact, she doesn't even know her identity (then again I doubt Karen knows what happened to her either). There is NOTHING special about Tsukihi's story, at all. Due to nature of the phoenix (though you might as well call it some type of Cuculus), the story was quite uneventful. The only part that was interesting was Yuzuru vs. Koyomi, which we get to see some serious beatdown like Kanbaru vs. Koyomi if animated.

I think it's easier if I put this in a list
Likes:

• Awesome fight scene (Shoryuken = massive lols).
• Excellent story on Yozuru, Meme, and Deishuu (hated Deishuu to hell in Karen Bee, but absolutely loved him here); hopefully the 4th guy shows up in Kyonshi.
• Karen related harrasment scenes (mounting, brushing, etc.).
• Tsukihi related harrasment scenes (mounting, kissing, etc.).
• Massive HeartUnderBlade moments.
• Wallet picture.

Dislikes:

• One Hanekawa moment only.
• Zero Nadeko moment (though swimming date to look forward to).
• Zero Hitagi moment AND COMPLETELY ERASING HER TSUNDERE PERSONALITY; WHY DID YOU DO THIS NISIO WHY, NOW HITAGI IS IS ...................................... NORMAL NOW???? Even if this is character growth it is still too cruel. TOO CRUEL I SAY.
• One Kanbaru moment only.
• Pretty uneventful Tsukihi story.
• Need more Tsukihi, in fact a lot a lot a lot more. Karen has equal (if not more than) amount of Tsukihi's time.

Neutral:

• Introduced new characters, who are kinda cool but didn't have enough detail on them.
• I completely fail to understand 90% of Mayoi's neta-filled conversation.
• The random conversation Araragi had with Karen on the way to Kanbaru was rather peculiar (not interesting to me but someone else might like it).
• Randomly have Mayoi said she's leaving and no follow up on that is kinda ...

I guess if you animate this with Karen Bee it's ok, but I rather they switch some of the events around to spread the characters out more. Because having 80% of the original cast not appearing is rather lame WHEN THE ONE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT IS ALMOST NON-EXISTENT.

Hopefully Kyonshi's better.

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by omimon

Spoiler:

By the way, Shinobu said to Koyomi upfront that she REALLY LIKES him and she mentioned at the end that she will never do anything that would make him unhappy. What she meant when she said that is debatable but one thing I can be sure about is that Shinobu isn't going leave Koyomi's side......EVER.

So...

Spoiler:

Does Shinobu ever say what she thinks of Hitagi? And since she "likes" Koyomi what's her plan in regards to that. Wait until Hitagi dies of old age and take over

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by stuopidget

Ok just finished, Nise 2, quite honestly, to me it is a disappointment.

Spoiler for Opinions with random spoilers:

Like ominion said, it's about Tsukihi, except ... Tsukihi has like 10% screen time with 5% of the lines. In fact, she doesn't even know her identity (then again I doubt Karen knows what happened to her either). There is NOTHING special about Tsukihi's story, at all. Due to nature of the phoenix (though you might as well call it some type of Cuculus), the story was quite uneventful. The only part that was interesting was Yuzuru vs. Koyomi, which we get to see some serious beatdown like Kanbaru vs. Koyomi if animated.

I think it's easier if I put this in a list
Likes:

• Awesome fight scene (Shoryuken = massive lols).
• Excellent story on Yozuru, Meme, and Deishuu (hated Deishuu to hell in Karen Bee, but absolutely loved him here); hopefully the 4th guy shows up in Kyonshi.
• Karen related harrasment scenes (mounting, brushing, etc.).
• Tsukihi related harrasment scenes (mounting, kissing, etc.).
• Massive HeartUnderBlade moments.
• Wallet picture.

Dislikes:

• One Hanekawa moment only.
• Zero Nadeko moment (though swimming date to look forward to).
• Zero Hitagi moment AND COMPLETELY ERASING HER TSUNDERE PERSONALITY; WHY DID YOU DO THIS NISIO WHY, NOW HITAGI IS IS ...................................... NORMAL NOW???? Even if this is character growth it is still too cruel. TOO CRUEL I SAY.
• One Kanbaru moment only.
• Pretty uneventful Tsukihi story.
• Need more Tsukihi, in fact a lot a lot a lot more. Karen has equal (if not more than) amount of Tsukihi's time.

Neutral:

• Introduced new characters, who are kinda cool but didn't have enough detail on them.
• I completely fail to understand 90% of Mayoi's neta-filled conversation.
• The random conversation Araragi had with Karen on the way to Kanbaru was rather peculiar (not interesting to me but someone else might like it).
• Randomly have Mayoi said she's leaving and no follow up on that is kinda ...

I guess if you animate this with Karen Bee it's ok, but I rather they switch some of the events around to spread the characters out more. Because having 80% of the original cast not appearing is rather lame WHEN THE ONE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT IS ALMOST NON-EXISTENT.

Hopefully Kyonshi's better.

I think the reason Nisio does that is artistic... Hitagi belongs to Koyomi now.

Not you, not the Otaku, Koyomi.

It think it is brilliant.

I bet, "why does Koymi get her to himself now ?" is what your subconsciously thinking.

It is like when one of your best femal friends gets serious or/ gets married to her lover and she no longer

1. hangs out in your bedroom anymore
2. no longer calls you at odd hours in the night
3. no longer walks around in her under wear when your at her hom
4. doesn't hug and kiss you playfull anymore
5. no longer has casual sex with you for fun and relife.

You are going to miss that comfort.

I wonder if Nisio "lost" a female friend of his to her boyfriend or husband and translated that experience into the way he handels Hitagis' development in the novels ?

She eventually becoms happy and more distant from you... a treasure to the person who unearthed her. all to himself.

interesting do you not think ?

[Kunagisa]

Originally Posted by Westlo

So...

Spoiler:

Does Shinobu ever say what she thinks of Hitagi? And since she "likes" Koyomi what's her plan in regards to that. Wait until Hitagi dies of old age and take over

I don't think she cares, at least she never mentioned anything about his love interest (unlike a certain ghost).

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

I think the reason Nisio does that is artistic... Hitagi belongs to Koyomi now.

Not you, not the Otaku, Koyomi.

It think it is brilliant.

I bet, "why does Koymi get her to himself now ?" is what your subconsciously thinking.

It is like when one of your best femal friends gets serious or/ gets married to her lover and she no longer

1. hangs out in your bedroom anymore
2. no longer calls you at odd hours in the night
3. no longer walks around in her under wear when your at her hom
4. doesn't hug and kiss you playfull anymore
5. no longer has casual sex with you for fun and relife.

You are going to miss that comfort.

I wonder if Nisio "lost" a female friend of his to her boyfriend or husband and translated that experience into the way he handels Hitagis' development in the novels ?

She eventually becoms happy and more distant from you... a treasure to the person who unearthed her. all to himself.

interesting do you not think ?

Very interesting, though I must admit, I didn't even think that far and I have to disagree because that the experience is not the same. Hitagi "belongs" to Koyomi the moment I finish reading Crabby, her personality shift has not changed that fact. She is a character I enjoy reading, but comparing her to my friend is a bit ... @___@.

It's more like ... say Goku has finally reached SSJ10, then all the sudden Toriyama go, "Sorry guys, he has aids, he can't go super saiyan anymore because that will activate his aids, and it's super aids, so that dragon balls can't even cure him." Ok well, not that extreme, but after seeing a character's cool side (or at least the side that you think is awesome), and all the sudden depriving that character's coolness, it is at least somewhat disappointing no (once again, my personal opinion on what constitutes as her coolness, others might see a tamed girlfriend as awesome sauce, so your mileage may vary～)?

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by stuopidget

it is at least somewhat disappointing no

Not really.

It is both awesome and dissapointing to me.

Awesome in that : Your imagination is left to fill in the rest... as in you mentally write the rest of the story. Fan fiction perhaps ?

Dissapointing in that : I wish he could gives a tiny little bit more. Why does Kanbaru get more story time and and not Hitagi ?

Let us see when koyomi brings her home.

How does she deal with his sisters?

How do they deal with her ?

[Kunagisa]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

Not really.

It is both awesome and dissapointing to me.

Awesome in that : Your imagination is left to fill in the rest... as in you mentally write the rest of the story. Fan fiction perhaps ?

Dissapointing in that : I wish he could gives a tiny little bit more. Why does Kanbaru get more story time and and not Hitagi ?

Let us see when koyomi brings her home.

How does she deal with his sisters?

How do they deal with her ?

Well I expect most of these to happen in Jiangshi or Neko, which is ... not in Nise 2, therefore ... I'm still disappointed in Nise 2?

[omimon]

Originally Posted by stuopidget

I don't think she cares, at least she never mentioned anything about his love interest (unlike a certain ghost).



Very interesting, though I must admit, I didn't even think that far and I have to disagree because that the experience is not the same. Hitagi "belongs" to Koyomi the moment I finish reading Crabby, her personality shift has not changed that fact. She is a character I enjoy reading, but comparing her to my friend is a bit ... @___@.

It's more like ... say Goku has finally reached SSJ10, then all the sudden Toriyama go, "Sorry guys, he has aids, he can't go super saiyan anymore because that will activate his aids, and it's super aids, so that dragon balls can't even cure him." Ok well, not that extreme, but after seeing a character's cool side (or at least the side that you think is awesome), and all the sudden depriving that character's coolness, it is at least somewhat disappointing no (once again, my personal opinion on what constitutes as her coolness, others might see a tamed girlfriend as awesome sauce, so your mileage may vary～)?

I totally forgot about what Shinobou did when he met Mayoi that afternoon until you mentioned it again. From what I got she was jealous of her and that why she stopped him from sexually harassing her right?

BTW I love your SSJ10 comparion, and I totally agree. I personally see Hitagi as a charater unlike others believe she is like 100% pure chocolate, bitter as hell but still chocolate nevertheless. Now that she is doing a 180 on us...well we will just have to wait until a sequal comes out where she appears in her sweet side.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

I think the reason Nisio does that is artistic... Hitagi belongs to Koyomi now.

Not you, not the Otaku, Koyomi.

It think it is brilliant.

I bet, "why does Koymi get her to himself now ?" is what your subconsciously thinking.

It is like when one of your best femal friends gets serious or/ gets married to her lover and she no longer

1. hangs out in your bedroom anymore
2. no longer calls you at odd hours in the night
3. no longer walks around in her under wear when your at her hom
4. doesn't hug and kiss you playfull anymore
5. no longer has casual sex with you for fun and relife.

You are going to miss that comfort.

I wonder if Nisio "lost" a female friend of his to her boyfriend or husband and translated that experience into the way he handels Hitagis' development in the novels ?

She eventually becoms happy and more distant from you... a treasure to the person who unearthed her. all to himself.

interesting do you not think ?

Well, I won't go as far as saying we are all thinking "she belongs only to Koyomi now". If anything more guys would be more interested in her. Think about it, Koyomi himself said that he is the only one insane enough to continue liking her even after she abusive ways, and that 99 out of 100 people would have dumped her a long time ago. Also, turning her like this was something Nisio HAD to do. Right from the beginning since Hitagi Crab we knew she hasn't completely recovered. The crab gave her back the memories of her mother and her feelings, but like a person who hasn't walked in 2 years, her ability to use those feelings were lacking.

Also, Hitagi before Nise was still stuck in her past. That's why she kept her long hair which her mother once praised her on. When she left her past she cut her hair in order to prove to herself that she is no longer bind to her past.

[Darknemo2000]

I think Nishio just lost the grasp of Hitagi's personality and eventually lost her tsundere side as well, turning into a normal and rather boring sweet girl. Maybe thats one of the main reason why we do not get much scenes from here. She is simply too boring for a good story, even for Nishio and he opts for other far much more interesting characters that still can dominated the plot just with their personalities alone.

Hitagi turned into a sweet girl, but at the same time it made her plain and far much less interesting, which eventually Nishio felt and just cannot find the place for the new her in his story.

It is not like Nishio is that great really. He does mistakes and his latest series is far from impressive (really mediocre) - I view the Hitagi personality shift to be one of the many mistakes he made and he seems like he cannot find the way to bring the old fire in her again. I do see the sense - the new sweet-boring self is the symbolic way to show that she became 'normal', but it does not seem to be clicking that well with the story, thats why she gets basically erased from the bigger parts of the story now.

[Zetsubo]

Um... isnt Tsubasa sweet ?

Isn't Kanbaru sweet ?

So what if Hitagi becomes less abusive and more "sweet" ?

Please rememebr that in middle school she was originally a sweet person.

She is returning to her original state ?

Is that not good ?

If anything I think Hitagi is more or less just happy and not "sweet" and fluffuy as I suspect some of you are thinking.

Kanbaru comes to mind .. or Tsubasa whom Hitagi has become good friends with and hitagi studied "under Tsubasa anyway... so if anything Her re-emergent personailty must be refreshing and Nisio may be saving it forthe other novels he has left.

Are they (koyomi and hitagi) not going to move in together when they leave high school... that should be fun.

Just relax yourselves people.

Man you guys sure are hard to please.

[Kunagisa]

Originally Posted by omimon

... Also, turning her like this was something Nisio HAD to do. Right from the beginning since Hitagi Crab we knew she hasn't completely recovered. The crab gave her back the memories of her mother and her feelings, but like a person who hasn't walked in 2 years, her ability to use those feelings were lacking ...

Pretty much this.

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

I think Nishio just lost the grasp of Hitagi's personality and eventually lost her tsundere side as well, turning into a normal and rather boring sweet girl ...

This is actually the 2nd worst case scenario. The worst case scenario is actually if Nishio ABANDONS Hitagi as a fun character (which is why she turned into dere-chan in the first place), and as you've said, she will definitely not appear as major character in the rest of the story.

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

...

Is that not good ?
...

Pretty much it's not good, cause each character has its own selling point to me.

Hitagi: tsundere/queen/dominating
Charm: somewhat crazy line of thinking, super S, and razor edge tongue
Mayoi: loli
Charm: witty lines, jail bait
Kanbaru/Karen: dizzy/non-sensical
Charm: sportsy type, say stuff without thinking, lack common sense
Nadeko/Tsukihi: moe
Charm: basically you want take these two home and lock them up in a box and hug them whenever
Tsubasa: motherly/sweet
Charm: the token super reliable friend
HUB: silent/prideful (this is me not having Kizu yet, so might change after)
Charm: I will refrain from commenting because I haven't read Kizu but if I had to say anything it's because she is great in bed due to all age preferences available (ok totally just kidding here).

Basically, Hitagi's charm to most just got wiped, so yes it is bad, UNLESS the new dere type is actually awesome, WHICH as we've said, we will withhold judgment UNTIL we've read Kabuki and Neko.

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

...
Just relax yourselves people.

Man you guys sure are hard to please.

MY QUEEN IS LOSING HER PLACE AS THE RIGHTFUL WAIFU IN HIS HAREM I CAN'T RELAXXXX (I lied, Nadeko is the hidden best end). Other Gahara-san fans like me are just worried that without her old personality, basically Nisio is setting up the story to shift the love interest more to Hanekawa and HUB.

Spoiler for Koyomi:

After all, Koyomi said Gahara-san is the one he's dating, Hanekawa is the one he likes the most, and HUB is the most important to him. If you're just going by words, Gahara-san is the most disposable @__@.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by stuopidget

Pretty much this.

Spoiler for Koyomi:

After all, Koyomi said Gahara-san is the one he's dating, Hanekawa is the one he likes the most, and HUB is the most important to him. If you're just going by words, Gahara-san is the most disposable @__@.

Spoiler:

And Mayoi is the one he'll end up marrying. Hey, Koyomi is the one saying it, not me.

[Zetsubo]

You people.......... lol !

how can something you have never seen be bad ?

What is with the negative thinking.

It is so silly.

No wonder women frown on male Anime / Manga fans.

Our reactions can be so immature... lol

Like my reaction to Kanbaru... lol

I just read on some site that otaku in Japan forced a mangaka into seclusion for making her lead female non-virgin.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

You people.......... lol !

how can something you have never seen be bad ?

What is with the negative thinking.

It is so silly.

No wonder women frown on male Anime / Manga fans.

Our reactions can be so immature... lol

Like my reaction to Kanbaru... lol

I just read on some site that otaku in Japan forced a mangaka into seclusion for making her lead female non-virgin.

Actually, Nagi being a non-virgin in unconfirmed...but I'll leave that for the Kannagi thread.

With that being said, Hitagi and Koyomi are now both non-virgins......hey maybe that's why she became "sweet" again.....I heard vampires can be really good in bed.

[LotionExplosion]

Originally Posted by omimon

Actually, Nagi being a non-virgin in unconfirmed...but I'll leave that for the Kannagi thread.

With that being said, Hitagi and Koyomi are now both non-virgins......hey maybe that's why she became "sweet" again.....I heard vampires can be really good in bed.

hmmm
Oh Girl ~

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by omimon

Actually, Nagi being a non-virgin in unconfirmed...but I'll leave that for the Kannagi thread.

With that being said, Hitagi and Koyomi are now both non-virgins......hey maybe that's why she became "sweet" again.....I heard vampires can be really good in bed.

It is not Nagi I am talking about.

Some other lead female.

You know, when I meet Japanese girls that visit my country I have learned not to tell them I play games, read Manga/ and watch Anime.

When I did that, in the past, I would get dirty looks... ever so slight, before they put on the pleasant "ooh sugoi" face. I

New reason...

Japanese girls : So how do you know about Japan.
Me : I have started study in economics and money management. Japan is the number 2 economy in the world next to USA. So I want to keep up todate about the money market.

With that explanation they draw closer and keep the conversation going. I even get email address. just because they hear I study money... and not Electrical Engineering which is my real path of study.

Most of these girl only end being playmates while they are here thought. when they go back home the contact stops (which is normal for these kinds of Japanese women)

If they return 3 years later, I get called again.... more play time.

I swear they are an enigmatic bunch of women.

[ickem]

This thread's been pretty active lately it seems.

Spoiler for Nise 2:

Regarding Tsukihi's screen time in the novel, you have to remember that the main character is never any of the girls. It's always about Koyomi and his relationship with each girl. Tsukuhi Phoenix was about him coming to terms with the fact Tsukihi was never really his sister in a sense. Yet, in the way that it actually matters, she was and will always be his sister.

P.S. Considering that Nishio Ishin spent part of the novel explaining Hitagi's progression it's pretty obvious that he already expected reactions like stuopidget's .

With that said though, I still find Nise 2 to be the weakest of the novels.

[Kunagisa]

Originally Posted by ickem

This thread's been pretty active lately it seems.

Spoiler for Nise 2:

Regarding Tsukihi's screen time in the novel, you have to remember that the main character is never any of the girls. It's always about Koyomi and his relationship with each girl. Tsukuhi Phoenix was about him coming to terms with the fact Tsukihi was never really his sister in a sense. Yet, in the way that it actually matters, she was and will always be his sister.

P.S. Considering that Nishio Ishin spent part of the novel explaining Hitagi's progression it's pretty obvious that he already expected reactions like stuopidget's .

With that said though, I still find Nise 2 to be the weakest of the novels.

That is so true!!! I laughed hard reading that part myself then I started raging and facepalming @__@.