Ore no Imouto - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

That isn't the issue. It's not good for an older brother to hate his little sister because he's jealous that she's so much more accomplished that he'll ever be. It's understandable, but not good. At least so this episode is saying.

That's not what I took away from the episode at all. It may be true - no siblings should hate each other, ideally - but I don't think we're to believe he literally hates her any more than that she literally wanted him to throw himself in front of a bus. Rather, I think it's the point that their relationship is fundamentally broken on some level.

My takeaway from the ep is that it was rather sympathetic to Kuroneko's POV. That is, Kirino may be talented and a hard worker but she's also damn lucky and an ungrateful bitch most of the time. And that Kyousuke needs to take a hard look at himself and be honest with his feelings, and that he's not doing Kirino any favors by putting off that day of reckoning. It was about jealousy and also responsibility - Kyou taking responsibility for his life and Kirino for her behavior.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

That's not what I took away from the episode at all. It may be true - no siblings should hate each other, ideally - but I don't think we're to believe he literally hates her any more than that she literally wanted him to throw himself in front of a bus. Rather, I think it's the point that their relationship is fundamentally broken on some level.

My takeaway from the ep is that it was rather sympathetic to Kuroneko's POV. That is, Kirino may be talented and a hard worker but she's also damn lucky and an ungrateful bitch most of the time. And that Kyousuke needs to take a hard look at himself and be honest with his feelings, and that he's not doing Kirino any favors by putting off that day of reckoning. It was about jealousy and also responsibility - Kyou taking responsibility for his life and Kirino for her behavior.

That I would like to see. If the anime goes this way, it'll make for a good story.

[FlareKnight]

Definitely hints at how strain built up in this sibling relationship. No matter how he tries to hide from himself Kyousuke definitely has a lot of issues with Kirino. A super blow out might be necessary on both sides here. Not that I'm surprised he has those kinds of feelings. In the shadow of a younger sibling there's bound to be some resentment there. But they've got to air things out or it will get to them later. Do wonder how things got started with this. Whether Kirino was pretty normal personality wise, then you got the super praise, maybe Kyousuke started to get distant from some initial jealousy and Kirino built up her attitude.

I can somewhat get Kyousuke's seemingly contradictory stance. Sometimes your siblings can just push you and at times can dislike them. But still you see enough to remind you why you care and that they are family so you stick with them. Maybe some of his actions are motivated by the guilt of being jealous of his little sister. Doesn't feel it's right to feel like that so he acts out to defend her and make everything ok.

A good group to come out and defend Kirino though.

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by DRAGUN H.E.X.

so does that mean Kirino has a yuri+incest+little sister fetish? O_O

No, She's a BroCon, I'll just leave it at that...

[Kotohono]

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

Hell no, for seven episodes I've been waiting for restitution from Kirino.

I've never once questioned why Kyosuke was doing what he is for her, I just became more and more aggregatived as she showed little to no appreciation for it. He's gone above and beyond at this point, and I just sat there and waited for her to suck it up and honestly admit that she actually appreciates it. Just a little. Not a 'thank you' or that bullshit date, just flat out blunt honesty.

This entire episode made me want to slap him, slap her, and then drop kick both of them into an oncoming bullet train.

His acts of heroism are becoming redundant, her lack of appreciation is annoying, her attitude is unacceptable at this point.

You're really expecting her to be thankful/grateful for something she is completely unaware?

Kyousuke hide his actions[and Kuroneko's by doing so], so of course Kirino is going think that it is a result due to herself and act as such, I mean that just makes sense, doesn't it?

[Master Chibi]

Originally Posted by Konakaga

You're really expecting her to be thankful/grateful for something she is completely unaware?

Kyousuke hide his actions[and Kuroneko's by doing so], so of course Kirino is going think that it is a result due to herself and act as such, I mean that just makes sense, doesn't it?

I wasn't talking about this episode in particular, I was referring to the entirety of what he's done for her thus far.

[Soconfused]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

That's not what I took away from the episode at all. It may be true - no siblings should hate each other, ideally

and why is that? Do you have brothers or sisters?

Also, what are the parents doing through all this? One day Kirino is gonna get some fat check in the mail and the dads gonna be like "wtf is this?". I find it hard to believe she can write a novel/get it turned into a t.v. show at the age of 14 or whatever without her parents knowing anything about it. Hell, is that even legal? You would think the studio would have to get consent from the parents or something, and I doubt her dad would be cool with this.

I wasn't on the Kirino hate train, but after this episode, she's getting kind of annoying. Not quite hate status, but annoying.

[musouka]

Two things to point out:

1. Much of Kirino's "hard work" is nothing but an informed attribute.

There is nothing about her that makes it seem like she is juggling a successful (even if part time) modeling career with being active in sports and spending time playing very long text-based games. Most parents encourage their children to do things like modeling or sports because it promotes discipline and maturity, two things that Kirino had in very short supply this episode.

Even more than her first novel going on to become a major bestseller and getting an anime made out of it, I don't think Kirino's character as presented holds together.

2. A relationship consists of two people.

Think of this logically. When the relationship turned sour, Kyousuke was probably around the same age as Kirino currently, if not younger. And yet people that time and time again defend her emotional immaturity like to heap all the blame on his door just because he's the "older brother." Kyousuke doesn't get any leeway for being at a "difficult age" when the break happened?

Not only that, but even though Kirino might have been the initially wronged party, she perpetuated the problem. As we see them in the beginning of the series, any overture on Kyousuke's part to even begin to mend the breach is rebuffed until he learns her secret. Even if Kyousuke's behavior was to blame, Kirino also deserves part of the blame for carrying a grudge instead of acknowledging the problem.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by musouka

Two things to point out:

1. Much of Kirino's "hard work" is nothing but an informed attribute.

There is nothing about her that makes it seem like she is juggling a successful (even if part time) modeling career with being active in sports and spending time playing very long text-based games. Most parents encourage their children to do things like modeling or sports because it promotes discipline and maturity, two things that Kirino had in very short supply this episode.

Even more than her first novel going on to become a major bestseller and getting an anime made out of it, I don't think Kirino's character as presented holds together.

2. A relationship consists of two people.

Think of this logically. When the relationship turned sour, Kyousuke was probably around the same age as Kirino currently, if not younger. And yet people that time and time again defend her emotional immaturity like to heap all the blame on his door just because he's the "older brother." Kyousuke doesn't get any leeway for being at a "difficult age" when the break happened?

Not only that, but even though Kirino might have been the initially wronged party, she perpetuated the problem. As we see them in the beginning of the series, any overture on Kyousuke's part to even begin to mend the breach is rebuffed until he learns her secret. Even if Kyousuke's behavior was to blame, Kirino also deserves part of the blame for carrying a grudge instead of acknowledging the problem.

All true. But personally, I mostly blame the parents. Well, I'm not sure about the mother, but the father seems to have completely given up on his son.

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

All true. But personally, I mostly blame the parents. Well, I'm not sure about the mother, but the father seems to have completely given up on his son.

Well Kyousuke is at the certain age where you don't have to worry about him anymore (or not that much as compared to a little sister) Or it goes to the point where, ever since he heard Kyousuke say that he likes eroge, he just lost all faith in him.

I agree with Kuroneko at some points in this episode, Kirino does need to be pushed down sometimes, instead of always being saved by Kyousuke, but ever since Kirino said the next life-counseling will be the last one, it made it very interesting that Kirino is no longer going to rely on Kyousuke anymore after whatever she has planned. Finally a development for her

I feel bad for Kuroneko and the guy that criticized Kirino's anime plans, they probably wrote amazing stories, but no one bothered to look at them. Then Kirino shows up and posts her story on the net, and all of a sudden everyone is interested in her work (jealousy Kuroneko...) Saori was brave in this episode, even though she dint say that much, she was defiantly good with this sort of thing.

[relentlessflame]

Just this:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Also, when The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya was adapted from light novel to anime they didn't have to change the novel premise to an anime original premise in order to "reflect the anime medium", whatever that's supposed to mean. So there's no inherent reason why Ore no Imouto has to do so either.

No... The equivalent plot in the OreImo novel centered around Kirino's work being adapted into a novel because it was a novel. The plot in the anime episode was revised to be centered around Kirino's work being adapted into an anime because it's an anime. And the plot revolved around the concept of adaptations not being faithful to the original story, making it a doubly-rich irony. That's all I was saying.

Edit: Might as well add this.

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

That's not what I took away from the episode at all. It may be true - no siblings should hate each other, ideally - but I don't think we're to believe he literally hates her any more than that she literally wanted him to throw himself in front of a bus. Rather, I think it's the point that their relationship is fundamentally broken on some level.

That part you quoted was a clarification of a previous point I had already explained; without the previous context, you're inadvertently reframed the meaning. Kyousuke does not hate Kirino at all. He claims that he hated her because he was/is jealous of her. The jealousy is the issue he has to address in order to fix his resentment towards her. It's obvious that he doesn't hate her in the literal sense, but such is the extent that his resentment is portrayed as having grown.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Soconfused

and why is that? Do you have brothers or sisters?

FTR I have two sisters, though I don't see why that should be a prerequisite for thinking that, ideally, siblings shouldn't hate each other. Is that really such a revolutionary idea?

[Zeroryoko1974]

My sister was quite a snatch growing up, I don't speak to her much, but I don't think I could ever "hate" her. Definately could say I would not go to the lengths that Kyousuke has to cover her mistakes. Maybe that is why I prefer older sister types in anime

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

FTR I have two sisters, though I don't see why that should be a prerequisite for thinking that, ideally, siblings shouldn't hate each other. Is that really such a revolutionary idea?

This is true in some ways, there are times when brothers and sisters fight and "say" they hate eachother, or do some things to make the other angry, but its not exactly "true hate" its just that growing up with family members, being bonded with the family lines that makes you not truly hate them. Kyousuke was just probably saying that he "hated" being dragged around by Kirino into all these incidents, but was really surprised that the next life-counseling will be the last.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by musouka

1. Much of Kirino's "hard work" is nothing but an informed attribute.

There is nothing about her that makes it seem like she is juggling a successful (even if part time) modeling career with being active in sports and spending time playing very long text-based games. Most parents encourage their children to do things like modeling or sports because it promotes discipline and maturity, two things that Kirino had in very short supply this episode.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. She clearly is pursuing a modeling career, is active in sports, and spending alot of time watching anime (including Maschera's glossary ... that's not really up to debate. She also spends some time trying to trace steps for her novel character. In other words, what she does, she does seriously.

Where she has serious deficiencies are her interpersonal skills. Not her discipline. So what exactly are you complaining about?

Even more than her first novel going on to become a major bestseller and getting an anime made out of it, I don't think Kirino's character as presented holds together.

Not sure what you're arguing here? That a character like her couldn't do what she's doing, and succeed with it?

One of my colleagues at work reminds me strongly of Kirino - he also dishes out amazing amounts of work in whatever he touches, and he touches alot. Unfortunately he's totally terrible when it comes to compromise, and when things get heated, he goes head-through-the-wall. But his work output is incredible, so that I wonder how he could ever pull it off. How he does it? He's very organized and intense at what he touches, and those are exactly the traits I see in Kirino, too.

So, I have no problem with Kirino "holding together" as presented. But maybe I misunderstood you here?

[AvatarST]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

Fuck yeah, this episode got Avatar posting again.

It's rather shameful that the first time I posted in ages was to say something negative.

In any case I've watched the episode again. I still felt in disbelief at times. For instance I think "hate" was too strong a word, and I didn't really like what they chose to show this development. What are we going to do now that Kirino's a famous novel writer who gets her own anime? Will we ever touch this subject again? Surely if she goes to a convention she should be recognized. I think Kuroneko was going off track with her speech and acted like a brat. I undestand the meaning of the episode, but I think we could've gone with a more believable story than silly, long winded speeches and Kyousuke going down to his knees in front of anime producers - and it actually working to get their way. I still believe this episode was a poor one.

I think I speak for a lot of people if I say that many of us were already aware that their relationship is complicated, and Kyosuke's reasons for helping her weren't entirely clear, even to himself. We also saw that Kirino was angry at Kyosuke neglecting her just one or two episodes ago (I don't remember the exact line - but she tells him "why are you suddenly pretending to be a good brother" when he offered his help on the Ayase situation).

As for where the story is heading, I think "I hate her" was as much of a copout as "because she's my sister".

While I don't think Kyosuke's ever hated her, his jealousy, perhaps not only of her success but also of parental attention, was probably what made him stay away from her. I guess now that he's found that Kirino isn't quite as perfect as she seemed he might feel he can relate to her better. However, I'm not quite sure he's "paying ammends" to her or it's just guilt-driven, relentless.

As for the cliffhanger, it makes me wonder if she's going to be put on a bus and they'll have to figure out what to do before then, to fix their relationship.

[musouka]

Originally Posted by Mentar

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. She clearly is pursuing a modeling career, is active in sports, and spending alot of time watching anime (including Maschera's glossary ... that's not really up to debate. She also spends some time trying to trace steps for her novel character. In other words, what she does, she does seriously.

The anime says she does all these things, but we get no indication of it. There's never any hint of scheduling conflict and the long hours needed to be a top student, model, successful athlete in addition to having a hobby that takes up a long period of time. But more than time--I'm sure there's someone in the world that's done all those things at once--it's about how these so-called disparate aspects of Kirino's character are just window-dressing shortcuts instead of actual attributes.

This is what I mean by a lack of awareness with Kirino.

For one, Kirino's brand of physical attractiveness allows itself certain liberties that a less attractive girl would be unable to partake in. One of these things is having a hobby that would be considered otherwise unsavory. The imoutocon thing is taking things a bit far, but liking cute anime in general is not the deathtoll the anime wants you to believe it is for someone of Kirino's popularity level.

Secondly, there is no crossover whatsoever in her life. She's a successful model that's appeared on many well known magazines, but this is kept completely separate from her debut as a teenage novelist? It seems much more realistic to me that the people around Kirino would channel that popularity into other aspects of her life. A successful model has an easier time getting a book contract than a complete unknown, for example.

Instead of modeling having a realistic impact on her life and time, it's used as a way to bolster Kirino's worth in the eyes of the viewer. And it's like that for everything about her. The anime wants us to believe that she "works hard" in every aspect of her life individually, when it makes more sense from what we've shown that her life is a mixture of passion and luck.

[Hypernova]

Originally Posted by Soconfused

Also, what are the parents doing through all this? One day Kirino is gonna get some fat check in the mail and the dads gonna be like "wtf is this?". I find it hard to believe she can write a novel/get it turned into a t.v. show at the age of 14 or whatever without her parents knowing anything about it. Hell, is that even legal? You would think the studio would have to get consent from the parents or something, and I doubt her dad would be cool with this.

Heh, I had that what-if thought while going through the thread literally 5min before I got to your post.

She most definitely isn't at the age of consent to sign legally binding contracts (as IP licensing deals are). The parents should have been sitting at the negotiating table at all times.

And considering that she got sick, I find it weird that the parents didn't ask questions as to why. If Kyosuke asked Dad he certainly would have helped.

[frubam]

Originally Posted by musouka

Instead of modeling having a realistic impact on her life and time, it's used as a way to bolster Kirino's worth in the eyes of the viewer. And it's like that for everything about her. The anime wants us to believe that she "works hard" in every aspect of her life individually, when it makes more sense from what we've shown that her life is a mixture of passion and luck.

I don't quite see how one could be the top in sports and academics by being "lucky", but I do agree with you. These activities take up quite a bit of time, so its hard to see just how she has time to do all of these activities in addition to writing novels, getting material for said novels, and playing dozens of eroge games.

[musouka]

Originally Posted by frubam

I don't quite see how one could be the top in sports and academics by being "lucky", but I do agree with you. These activities take up quite a bit of time, so its hard to see just how she has time to do all of these activities in addition to writing novels, getting material for said novels, and playing dozens of eroge games.

Well, instead of luck, let's use talent. From what the anime has shown us, all Kirino needs to do is put in initial effort and she'll be successful at something. This is a far cry from someone like Kuroneko, who alludes to the unglamorous part of writing. The part that plugs away every day and does careful, not particularly fun, research.

When I think of "hard work", I don't think of dumping a bucket of water over your head when it's cold outside. I think of someone who sacrifices their time and goes through much effort to succeed at something.