Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by n0m@n

Watched it twice already. Went to the midnight special event one where Fukuda said some interesting things. Though the movie changed Lacus’s character.

Spoiler for movie:

She’s not a normal coordinator but an Accord.
Accord are the super coordinators that was chosen to guide the humanity under the rule of destiny plan. And they possess abilities such as mind reading, mind manipulation and linking their minds to communicate like Innovades from Gundam 00.

Lacus and Orphee are supposed to be at the top of the Accord and were “destined” to be with each other. So basically they were supposed to be the “Adam” and “Eve” of destiny plan world. Hence the reason for “Lacus” being the main focus of the film.

This story is about Lacus and Kira. But in the latter half of the movie it felt as though Lacus was the main character of this film and stole the spotlight from Kira.

Also don’t expect to see Kira from Gundam SEED Destiny but Kira from the original Gundam SEED.

Spoiler for Reply:

If the Destiny Plan called to involve Lacus the whole time, Durandal certainly screwed the pooch by trying to assassinate her in Destiny…..

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by quagmire

Spoiler for Reply:

If the Destiny Plan called to involve Lacus the whole time, Durandal certainly screwed the pooch by trying to assassinate her in Destiny…..

Spoiler for Seed freedom:

depends how directly involved he was with the accords.

If he was then he may have seen her as too much a liability even despite her sleeper agent status. Especially how close she is to the ultimate coordinator. It could and did throw his and their plans into chaos.

They might not have let him know either. He was an expert on genetics so they may have fed him just enough to see how others react to the plan so that they could make adjustment.

Some of these spoilers make me think Siegel wasn’t as good a father or person. I remember him and Patrick arguing with Patrick seeing them as the ultimate race while Siegel did not see them as a new race at all. If he was in on it then that’s a bold statement. Yet he also didn’t seem too against Kira and Lacus being together which would go against the plan. Any info on him in the movie?

[Dernhelm]

Anime News Network graded the movie and gave it a B+

which is interesting because that's higher than A Wakening of the Trailblazers' C, Cucuruz Doan Island's and Hathaway Flash's B.

also it's nearly 1billion yen in ticket revenues after day 2.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Spoiler for Seed freedom:

depends how directly involved he was with the accords.

If he was then he may have seen her as too much a liability even despite her sleeper agent status. Especially how close she is to the ultimate coordinator. It could and did throw his and their plans into chaos.

They might not have let him know either. He was an expert on genetics so they may have fed him just enough to see how others react to the plan so that they could make adjustment.

Some of these spoilers make me think Siegel wasn’t as good a father or person. I remember him and Patrick arguing with Patrick seeing them as the ultimate race while Siegel did not see them as a new race at all. If he was in on it then that’s a bold statement. Yet he also didn’t seem too against Kira and Lacus being together which would go against the plan. Any info on him in the movie?

Spoiler:

From what I've heard they don't go too far into it but there is maybe some implication Lacus' mom was involved?

[n0m@n]

Update: The movie will be released in 56 countries/region

[Renegade334]

Mecha lineart dump - click the images to enlarge:

TL;DR…

movie spoilers!

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EDIT -didn't realize the official website had them all already (or had been updated since the movie's release): https://www.gundam-seed.net/freedom/mecha/


Oh, well...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Gunpla King]

thank goodness they repaired the Strike Rouge, I thought it went to the junkyard........

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

Mecha lineart dump - click the images to enlarge:

TL;DR…

movie spoilers!

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

EDIT -didn't realize the official website had them all already (or had been updated since the movie's release): https://www.gundam-seed.net/freedom/mecha/


Oh, well...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Was always disappointed the the STRIKE freedom lacked wing packs. There’s only 1 extra but makes things easier

[Renegade334]

There are a few interesting things in the descriptions for each mecha:

TL;DR…

translated mecha descriptions - BEWARE MILD MOVIE SPOILERS

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Notes:

- The ZAKU Warrior cockpit seems to have been a very successful design, enough that it has been retrofitted into newer models instead of stepping aside for newer, blank-slate designs. Reusability and standardization at work here.

- Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice were built by Orb, mating together technology from their respective ZAFT forebears (both of which were stillborn prototypes discarded by ZAFT -or stolen from them- and completed by the Three Ships Alliance's Factory) and from Morgenroete's Murasame. I wonder how much technology transfer was carried out between the two nations, possibly as part of the terms of the peace/arms control treaties signed in the years after the LOGOS-Dullindal affair. This level of cooperation wouldn't have been seen since Morgenroete's dalliance with EA, which went on to cause the Heliopolis attack.

- Femtech Armor. FEMTECH ARMOR. what is this I don't even
...is this the right spelling anyway? If this were Cross Ange, I'd just chuckle and be on my way, but this is Gundam...

- Supposing that the Strike Freedom Spec II and Infinite Justice II Spec II still retain their nuclear reactors, their model designations seem to have changed. Normally: it goes like this--
ZGMF-X20A: Zero Gravity Maneuver Fighter, eXperimental model 20, Atomic energy source. The "A" exclusively indicated that it was a nuclear power version of this particular model number, which is nothing unorthodox as, in the MSV side materials, we see nuclear-powered variants of conventionally-powered MSes and vice versa.
But now it goes: ZGMF/A-262B. Unless...that "/A" stands for something else? And "B" - is it the "B" variant of model 262?
The confusion continues as you meet the Destiny Spec II: ZGMF/A-42S2. The "S" suffix in Destiny indicated a Deuterion Beam energy system paired with a battery. Did Destiny receive a nuclear reactor to replace its battery? In the movie, it can emit its own Deuterion Beam to recharge the Impulse when the latter grows critically short of power.

- Following the above observation, the Lightning Buster and Duel Blitz do NOT have "A"s or "/A"s in their type-codifications despite the fact that they are nuclear-powered. Is ZAFT/Compass trying to conceal the modification and skirt peace/arms control treaties put in place after Dullindal's defeat?

- ZAFT seems to have sold a lot of its old stock to Foundation. Given what happens in PLANT during the movie, one can only suppose there are deeper ties between the two hiding under the surface.

- A naval ram on a spaceship? This isn't Warhammer 40K or Assassin's Creed: Odyssey, Fukuda...and why the hell, in the heat of battle, does the Millennium's bridge raise itself into a glass cupola, without any additional armor, as if they were trying to emulate a Star Trek nipple-bridge? Terribad design.

- Orb mobile suit type-codifying scheme has switched from MBF-Mxx (conventional MS) and MVF-Mxx (variable frame MS) to STTS-xx. The "/F" suffix could indicate a variable frame like the Murasame Kai, but it is absent from the Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice's model names despite them being transformable designs derived from the Murasame. Unless "/F" just stands for "fighter".

- The Mighty Strike Freedom's nanoparticle cloud (mentally-controlled, like GN particles or Minovsky particles) scattered by the Proud Defender is probably the reason why this MS can attack its enemies with "high-voltage lightning bolts" while in a vacuum. There do exist certain natural phenomena called "vacuum discharge" and "space lightning" (observed in space around certain planets like Jupiter, and sometimes between them and their moon(s)) in real life, but they occur at a stupidly large scale and, without any gaseous particle to be excited, those discharges would be...invisible. Also, lightning in a vacuum is usually weaker than lightning traveling through a medium - without the nanoparticles' help, it'd make for a stupidly inefficient weapon...which could only be made to work if you connected it to an unrealistically overpowered energy source.

- Aside from the Destroy and the Dagger, there's really nothing new on the Earth Alliance side of things. Looks like their R&D plateaued. Disappointing. Unless their military industry is under strict control, like Germany and Japan were after WWI and WWII?

[cyberdemon]

Spoiler:

It’s ironic that trying to make Lacus perfect for another makes her even more perfect for Kira lmao. The ultimate coordinator and the ultimate accord. Sry turns out he is a failed accord. Good for him

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

The confusion continues as you meet the Destiny Spec II: ZGMF/A-42S2. The "S" suffix in Destiny indicated a Deuterion Beam energy system paired with a battery. Did Destiny receive a nuclear reactor to replace its battery? In the movie, it can emit its own Deuterion Beam to recharge the Impulse when the latter grows critically short of power.

Destiny was always nuclear powered. It didn't get the "A" designation as a way to hide the fact ZAFT built a nuclear powered suit against the Junius treaty.

Destiny, SF, and IF all share the same power source being the Hyper-Deuterion Engine which uses a nuclear reactor and the deutrion system.

Spoiler for movie discussion:

Which is why I posted earlier that it is confusing how the SF supposedly drained it's energy in the movie. And how the proud defender pack was able to fully repower it and the fact it's features was even more power hungry than regular SF config

[justavisitor]

looking at the model promotion pic, I must be in the minority who likes the new backpack of IJ XD

Not only we got two more sabers in the backpack (tho we will forever question the practicality of having beam sabers behind the body ), it seems to have 4 more beam cannons at the tip of the x-wing. In addition, the new backpack seems to have 2 small missile pods too!

It's always better to fire more guns than to throw the backpack towards your opponent

[cyberdemon]

So is the blonde haired douche another Rau clone?

[kiak666]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

So is the blonde haired douche another Rau clone?

Spoiler for Movie Villain:

Nope. As n0m@n stated, Orphee is an Accord, genetically modified humans stated to surpass a Coordinator.

Turns out Lacus is also an Accord, as she and Orphee are designed to be genetically compatible mates.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by kiak666

Spoiler for Movie Villain:

Nope. As n0m@n stated, Orphee is an Accord, genetically modified humans stated to surpass a Coordinator.

Turns out Lacus is also an Accord, as she and Orphee are designed to be genetically compatible mates.

Spoiler for Spoilers:

doesn’t mean he isn’t. Roughly the same age as Rey. He could just be the last, perfectly cloned Al Da Flaga clone

[kiak666]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Spoiler for Spoilers:

doesn’t mean he isn’t. Roughly the same age as Rey. He could just be the last, perfectly cloned Al Da Flaga clone

Spoiler for Spoilers:

Eh, just because Orphee's blonde and good looking, doesn't mean he's an Al clone. So far no one who saw the movie mentions anything about clones in the spoiler.

There are also scenes where Kira and Orphee talk face to face, if Orphee is indeed a clone, wouldn't Kira, a person who saw Rau's face, would at least comment about their resemblance?

[Washu-Chan]

It appears that Foundation’s GINN-Rs are the CE’s version of Gundam Wing’s Mobile Dolls.

[aeriolewinters]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

It appears that Foundation’s GINN-Rs are the CE’s version of Gundam Wing’s Mobile Dolls.

I'm thinking more G-Bits from Gundam X

[cyberdemon]

So

Spoiler for Kira:

so he’s actually a failed accord rather than the ultimate coordinator from what I heard. Good for him. He still ntred, if you could call it that, one of the ultimate accords lol

[Renegade334]

A few things from the official Freedom novel by Liu Goto. We'll suppose it is canon and follows the movie faithfully.

TL;DR…

SPOILERS - movie backdrop and other details, ch.1, unofficial translation

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NOTES:

Spoiler:

- At one of the first public screenings, Fukuda is said to have expressed interest in a prequel to Freedom, centered on this unseen Gundamjack. Take this with a huge grain of salt, 4chan comments are by no means Word of God.

Spoiler for Moonlight Valkyrie novella:

The Moonlight Valkyrie novella (AKA "Week 1 Attendee Special Gift B"), also by Liu Goto, kind of foreshadows that the culprit of the failed hijacking is a Coordinator by the name of Leonard Valway, whose parents died in Januarius Two as a result of the REQUIEM firing by Djibril. He gained access to the Freedom by buttering up Agnes, who then used her family connections to promise him at least one joyride. The novel ends on a dialogue between those two, although it is unclear whether the Accords had a hand in his actions.

- Agnes is more of a Fllay-like gold-digger/social climber than first described and has quite the spiteful tongue, too.
- The whole "Foundation breaking away from Eurasia" and "Orphee Lam Tao being acknowledged by Durandal" raises questions on the whole timeline, especially it makes one wonder how did Coordinators successfully orchestrate a coup d'état in a region that is nowadays quite the Blue Cosmos hotbed. Also makes you wonder whether Aura and Gilbert were in true cahoots (Foundation's breaking off being possibly one of his peripheral schemes to weaken the EA) or if they simply had relatively similar dreams they were pursuing independently of one another.

Personally - I don't really like this Accord thing, which feels tacked-on as a means to align the whole Coordinator concept (which was its own thing and I hoped it'd stay that way!) closer to the Newtype/Innovator concept from other Gundam universes (and Fukuda does borrow a lot of things from other Gundam franchises in the movie, be it the Z'Gok, the Gyan, the G-Bit, the Gundam 00 Raiser - just to cite the more obvious ones). Especially with Kira being dubbed a "failed Accord", as it rewrites the whole Ulen Hibiki backstory and draws up unneeded (IMHO) entanglements. Hibiki's Ultimate Coordinator project was started to solve one problem, which was the sharp fertility drop-off issue after three generations and the rising number of stillbirths. Hibiki partially solved it with the artificial womb and then designed, with his son as the medium, the ideal Coordinator whose genes made the stillbirth problem a non-issue (though it is unknown what causes it; it's clearly said in SEED that the biggest wildcard in Coordinator pregnancy was the mother's womb, but it is not clarified, AFAIK, whether the womb was rejecting the embryo as if it were a foreign body contaminant or if the embryo was simply failing to survive in the uterus)...it wasn't a "I will create the perfect supersoldier" plan at all, nor was it a "I will create the next world leader" plan, either - at least that we know of (and Raww did not allude to this, either, in his fevered ramblings). Ulen's dalliances with Al Da Flaga were an acceptable plot twist (why? Because it explains how Kira could have inherited his Newtype abilities from the Da Flaga gene pool, which Ulen had access to), but this new Accord thing makes it feel like a tangled web. Hibiki's single-minded pursuit of perfection and the ideological can of worms that is the Destiny Plan are not...fundamentally...incompatible, but it does make me wonder if, as a Natural, he'd have agreed with it given that the implementation of such a sweeping social program would have stuck him somewhere in the middle of the human pyramid of genetically-determined merit; he strikes me as too proud an individual for that (and he already had reservations on the subject of cloning, but probably needed the money anyway).

Of course, the extradiegetic explanation to the introduction of the Accord stuff is that the scriptwriters needed something to prop Lacus up and rationalize her presence inside Strike Freedom (aside from presenting a mirror image to Cal-re.A's Orphee and Ingrid pilot crew) aside from giving Kira a pep talk...
...and provide a good reason why COMPASS gets such a thorough trashing midway through the movie.