Dating

[Minna]

Originally Posted by raikage

I disagree.

The first part was covered nicely, but the "girls are more mature" part always bothered me.

I never, ever believed that. (Well, physically that's true.) To me, girls think they're emotionally/mentally more mature than boys their age, but generally -- no, you are your age.

Heck, when I was in school most girls thought they were the most mature out of their group of friends. You can't each be the most mature.

Or, think of it this way:

You're 18 now. Look at people who are, say, 13-14 now.

Think about seeing 13 and 14 year olds at the mall, waiting for their parents at the library, wherever the heck it is people of that age go.

Are the girls noticeably more grown-up than the boys are?

Hmm, well... You do have a point there. When I posted it I was actually considering adding that it seems that the "normal" behaviour of girls is going downhill. Or perhaps it has always been that way. I suppose I just meant that girls have usually been better at handling different things (like organizing) or wanting their relationships to be serious (compared to the boys) - Whether or not they can actually be in one I don't know.

Then again, I suppose it's difficult to compare girls and boys - Maybe it shouldn't even be done. I think I'll stick by another statement then: Maturity depends on the person as an individual, seeing how different people are.

I really agree with the bolded part of the text and I think I'll have to take back some of my words. It seems that my (bad) habit of mainly noticing boys/men with a lousy and immature behaviour is still sticking a bit with me. Maybe I have been thinking of each gender's "strong and weak points" as a part of maturity as well. Perhaps it also has something to do with how many girls want to become "adults" a lot sooner than boys? At least that's the tendency I see here. Quite young girls acting as if they were my age or even older. It's a bit sad, really.

Anyway, I never meant to say that all girls were more mature than all guys at their age. Maybe I should have made that a bit more clear in the first place.

[Miko Miko]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Is this the same guy who kissed you without asking?

No.

I am finished with that guy anyway after he sort of scared me..

[4F0ur]

i just wanna add some of my thoughts

i dont think girls are more mature than boys at all...

i think its the opposite. well i know i could be wrong..but from my experience all

the girls i know think that they are mature..because they calculate a lot of things

with their head. but eventually make mistakes....in turns of relationships.

i've been helping out several girls(all are 3 or 4 years older than me) with their

relationship with guys...but they are not different at all.....

it seems like people dont really get maturer(mentally) as they're aging.

but through experiences....

This is my theory for getting girls..

bascially theres 3 types of girls...and i will separete the 3 types into 2 groups..

first group is teenager:

1st type: grown up happily with family, could be a bitch or super popular around friends watever... this type is hard, because they usually set their goals way up there. and probably would never be moved by a confession or whatever. (luckily there arent too many of this type of girls out there)

2nd type: grown up with sadness inside. could be from parents (divorce) or urge to be a model type of thing. its sad but most of the girls (even some of the hot ones) fall under this catagory. but anyways they are kind of easy.. all you have to do is...(if you really think shes worthy) be her friends, work on your styles, read some proverb books(when ppl are in trouble, most of the time it could be solved by the proverbs and girls love guys whom can bring them answers and security) and be patient.

second group is for age 20-35

well...i think all girls become easier to get as they get older.

because they need to get married some day..so when they are older, they start to open up more possibilities for guys. well to get girls at this age group.
you need money (so a stable job). you need to love her( coz girls can tell ) some nice dinning area. and romantic spots. if you have fame, vision, future, those are plus.



for all the guys who lack of smooth talking skills...you can write letter and confess..girls dont really mind it and you can make it good coz you can have all the time you want to write the letter.

and this line always worked for me.... "i want to get to know you more" coz girls usually have stuffs hiding under their mask. and the older they get the more they have... so that line works perfect.... and you dont have to write i love you,, i think thats too much.. you say im interested in you or something like that.

to all the females: im sorry i kinda grouped you girls...but to us guys we have to, coz of your hard-to-get games. =O

one more tip for all of you who are in a seret love with someone. dont think of that person too much.. or you will stumble when you saw him/her.
i find that most of the guys have hard time talking to the girl they like. its mostly because you guys think about or fantacise about the girl all day..and when you really meet the girl....you dont have a life to talk about to the girl...see you want to talk about your day..but you been thinking about her all day and thats not a topic you want to talk about...and that makes you turn red, and diffult to talk with the girl you like.

so go out and have a life...and make your mind to stop thinking about the girl...

[klowny]

^^ i'm going to use your tips because the way i approach kinda makes me sound like a jerk, hoping i get something out of this

oh yeah anybody got any places good for dates because i have no clue, after all i am a kid

[4F0ur]

Originally Posted by klowny

^^ i'm going to use your tips because the way i approach kinda makes me sound like a jerk, hoping i get something out of this

oh yeah anybody got any places good for dates because i have no clue, after all i am a kid

nice!
but i forgot to say that the letter thing might not work for teenager girls.

it works for the mature women more. =p

[klowny]

hey maybe they will think its sweet or something like that or would it be better if i bring a guitar and started singing?

[4F0ur]

Originally Posted by klowny

hey maybe they will think its sweet or something like that or would it be better if i bring a guitar and started singing?

if your not a shy person..just have a normal conversation :O

[UltimaWolf]

Ok, Normally I don't do this sorta thing, but this is kinda a little different.

So, I have known this girl at work for about 3 months, and about a month ago(maybe a little less)I started to get to know her alot better and we have been going to lunch everyday(and when I have been off I have came there and gone with her) and on the weekends hanging out at theatres,etc.
She'll be 21 soon, so we are both really close age-wise, but there is only one problem...She has a almost 2 year old son...and "was" engaged.
Now, I say "was" because before 2 weeks ago, he was living 100+so miles away from here while shes been living with her mom and long story short, he treats her like shit. And from talking to me(started about a month ago) I told her that she shouldn't be treated that way and she broke it off.
Now first off, I never told her to personally break it off, but just basicly told her that she shouldn't be treated that way and to talk it out,etc, and after awhile she talked to him and broke it off all on her own. and for the first two weeks after that things were great between us, she told me she never had good experiences with boyfriends before they always treated her bad, etc and that I was the first to make her feel this way, special, and that she mattered.

Now the thing is two weeks ago he came up here to live with her, she didn't want her son to be away from his 'real' dad and to give him a chance to get a job and straighten up his act.
Now thats no problem, but it seems like lately shes been more different I guess is the word to use? We still go to lunch and talk often.(except when she gets home) I don't know if its the stress, lack of sleep, or if shes just tired of me or only thinks of me as a friend?
We aren't officially dating or anything, but she did tell me(before he came) that she wanted to try things slow with me and take our time,etc. So I don't know if thats the case or not.
But also one of the problems might be on my end aswell, I'm kinda iffy about her son, I mean I kinda never planned on having one this soon, and I know this is going to sound selfish, but it kinda sucks that we can't do much together because she has to be home to take care of him or find a babysitter,etc. Which I mean I completely understand and all, and I have never complained about it to her.
But I just don't know if this will work out or not, or if I should try harder or somthing. I really do like her, and it would honestly be perfect if not for her son and her ex-fiance, but I know life isn't easy and all that.

So I'm basicly looking for advice, sorry if this is all jumbled together I kinda wrote it as it came to mind, so its probably not in the best order.

[2H-Dragon]

I was about to say wut's the problem the Your 21 she's 20...., but yah I have no experience with kid related problems. Good luck though!

Well to be honest. How much do you like her? If it's just a simple liking don't bother, it's just too much trouble. Sure you can still be there as a friend. To be honest love and such is kinda overrated. You're still young more fish in the sea.

If you like her a lot like you never liked anyone before. Then yeah you should just go for it. Since it wouldn't matter what I would or anyone would say.

[UltimaWolf]

Thank you both for the advice, I'll just stay her friend until she decides on whats best for her and what she needs to do.
Today she seemed closer to her old self, though I didn't have much time to talk to her today.
Though if anyone else has any thoughts I'd take them.

[Lonestar9]

[QUOTE=UltimaWolf;1620957]Ok, Normally I don't do this sorta thing, but this is kinda a little different.

So, I have known this girl at work for about 3 months, and about a month ago(maybe a little less)I started to get to know her alot better and we have been going to lunch everyday(and when I have been off I have came there and gone with her) and on the weekends hanging out at theatres,etc.
She'll be 21 soon, so we are both really close age-wise, but there is only one problem...She has a almost 2 year old son...and "was" engaged.
Now, I say "was" because before 2 weeks ago, he was living 100+so miles away from here while shes been living with her mom and long story short, he treats her like shit. And from talking to me(started about a month ago) I told her that she shouldn't be treated that way and she broke it off.
Now first off, I never told her to personally break it off, but just basicly told her that she shouldn't be treated that way and to talk it out,etc, and after awhile she talked to him and broke it off all on her own. and for the first two weeks after that things were great between us, she told me she never had good experiences with boyfriends before they always treated her bad, etc and that I was the first to make her feel this way, special, and that she mattered.

Dealing with kids and ex's is very tough, trust me on this one as I've done it, lol...but not at such an early age as yourself. Just from what I read, she's probably conflicted, and certainly letting her ex move in with them, well, that show's she's either not over him or she wants to see if he will somehow mature and become a better bf/dad. The best advice i'd give, is to keep your options way, way open...it should be fine to be with her as a friend, but view her as such, and try to date others, and don't try to date her unless your sure she's moved on from her ex.

[raikage]

(Assuming the other guy doesn't get his act together and you two start dating)

Don't think about the kid. Seriously.
You're dating her, not her child. And from the standpoint of her raising her son (admittedly this tends to apply to older children) you don't want to introduce your kid to "new daddy" every time a could-be boyfriend comes along.

Or, on the flip side, what if you and the son bond, and things don't work out between you and her?

Better to just not meet her son at all, til things get serious.

[UltimaWolf]

^ Yeah I haven't really met her son at all except for a few seconds when they all came up to work one time, and from the pictures she has of him. But I understand what you're saying, I just don't know exactly what to do, if I should be trying and being really nice to her to get her away from him( He honestly is a asshole) or just not try and see how things work out. I'm kinda torn between the two, I don't want to get close to her to just find out she still loves him, or on the other-half not be there for her and push her back to him.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by UltimaWolf

^ Yeah I haven't really met her son at all except for a few seconds when they all came up to work one time, and from the pictures she has of him. But I understand what you're saying, I just don't know exactly what to do, if I should be trying and being really nice to her to get her away from him( He honestly is a asshole) or just not try and see how things work out. I'm kinda torn between the two, I don't want to get close to her to just find out she still loves him, or on the other-half not be there for her and push her back to him.

The problem is that even if she does fall completely for you, the other man will still be in your life to even a small extent. After all, that man is her son's biological father. Even assuming that the father didn't want to be involved and that the mother didn't want him to be involved, it's possible that the son would seek him out or want to know more about it.

That's a really messy situation. I agree that you should think more about her than her son, but if it were me I think that'd be bugging me big time. Having to deal with a child at this age? I'd also consider dealing with a step-child to be one of the more difficult child-rearing situations. It doesn't have to be, of course. Good luck either way, and keep us updated on how it plays out if you feel open enough to share. I admire your courage in that despite the situation you're still even considering a relationship with her. It makes me realize that were I placed under a similar situation, I'd have a lot less respect for what my reaction might be compared to how you're handling it.

[UltimaWolf]

Thank you Ledgem, I've always respected you're opinions and was hoping you'd post here hehe. Yeah I'll update on what happens, but I don't think I'll be seeing her this weekend so it'll be atleast monday if anything happens.
Yeah I know the son thing isn't the best, I really never planned on having one so soon, and espicially one that isn't even mine. I originally didn't even know she had a son or was engaged until awhile of knowing her, when it did I kinda backed off since I kinda liked her and when I knew she was engaged I didn't want to start anything, but after a few days of being 'distant' she came up to me and asked what was wrong, I told her and then she explained it wasn't working out, he didn't even live here, and the way he treats her, etc.

The ironic thing is that my best friend is in a similar(but worse) situation than me, he's 20 and dating(for the past 5-6months) a woman that is 27 with two kids, ones 8 other is 6(or about that) and she recently had a divorce with their father. I used to always tease him about his situation before it sorta happened to me. x-x You know the "I'd never do that" "Shes just using you" etc etc.

I guess I'll just see how it goes, I'll let you know if anything happens.

[Ledgem]

I'm quite flattered to hear that. I'd really wanted to give you encouragement, and after taking a bit more time to passively think it over I'll give you a few more thoughts that you've probably already considered.

What makes this situation difficult is that there are a number of factors that could potentially put more stress on your relationship with her than other relationships, and some of those factors could even come between the two of you. The idea that there's another guy in her life and that there's a child seem like obvious obstacles and potential setbacks, but there are more implications to it than that.

The child is a good starting point. How this will impact the two of you depends on the child (obvious) and also on the mother. I can remember one woman's opinion as it struck me as something I'd never thought of. She was nearing the end of her pregnancy, but she stated that her priorities were basically her parents first, because they were irreplaceable, her child second, and her husband third. I don't believe that every woman feels that way, but I certainly felt bad for her husband... although I'd heard his opinion on women as well, and let's just say that I don't envy either of them, although they seemed content with each other The reason I bring it up is because it might be insightful. I'd always presumed that parents would work together to raise children; there was no prioritizing of relationships because to even consider one member of the family above another would be detrimental to the family unit. Perhaps that's a bit idealistic.

If the mother has a priority scheme like that, it could be trouble down the road. In the worst-case scenario you'd end up hurt, and likely resenting her child. It'd be a rather bad situation for everyone involved. If she's the type who would accept you and not place you above her child or vice versa then you're in the clear. She's probably rather saintly if that's the case.

The child's acceptance of you, and your acceptance of the child would be another issue. Do you want children of your own? Would you be able to raise a child that isn't yours along with your own biological children without playing favorites? You and I are in our early 20's - we probably can't answer that question right now, but it's something to consider. This consideration is more or less a "business" consideration of the relationship, and examining relationships from a business/strategic viewpoint rather than a personal/emotional one is something I don't really like. I'd prioritize it less highly than your feeling for her and the feelings that you're getting back.

The ex-husband/fiancee is another issue with multiple considerations. The obvious one is that, if he's an asshole (or at least, you clearly don't like him) do you want to have him linked to your life like that? He won't necessarily be involved heavily in your life - he may not be involved at all, actually, but it's a possibility. Will it ever really bother you that the lady had feelings for him and had a child with him? Will you resent the child because of the father?

Those are a lot of considerations and questions that you probably can't answer at this point, and you don't have to. If you've found a solid woman who you really love and can get along with then the conditions around her aren't as important. See if she wants to continue with you, and if she does, keep at it. As you get to know her better you'll learn more about her life. Most normal relationships experience the "next step" as meeting each other's parents and family members and evaluating compatibility, you'll simply evaluate her child (and perhaps her ex, if he's involved) when the time comes. Keep the considerations and questions in mind, and see how it goes.

At the end of the day, the circumstances aren't important. What do you want from the relationship? My own personal belief is that relationships should be a source of joy and support for both people involved. The circumstances around this girl seem like they'd be drawbacks, but if the relationship matches your expectations even in spite them and you and she are happy, then those circumstances do not matter: it's a good relationship, and good relationships are hard to come by and should be treasured. Just be true to yourself and be in touch with your feelings. If you begin to feel that the relationship is a drag on your life or that it isn't matching your expectations, you'll know that it's time to move on. For now, it's probably best to treat those circumstances as though they were the shadows of dragons lurking around your princess. You'll be able to tell if they're really threats as you get closer.

[UltimaWolf]

Yeah, The son being the most important thing to her is true, atleast at the moment. Shes stated several times that the only good thing he gave her was the most important thing in her life, that may not always be true and I could be equal, but it could also never happen like you have said, So I do understand that, it is tricky, and it being not mine makes it all the more difficult. You are right about the resentment thing I never thought about it until you brought it up and I have no idea if I would ever resent him(I know that must sound bad but I have no idea what the future holds) or not. I'd hope that I wouldn't, and that I could grow to love him.(If I continue with this relationship of course)

The part with her fiance is tricky aswell, I have never personally met him, all I get is from her and her mom(what little I spoke to her) but her talking about him is a often conversation between us, what he's done to her and how he treated her, etc. The closest I got besides that is when me and her and some of my friends went to the movies(before he moved up here) and he called her, she left to answer it and after a few minutes she returned crying, I asked her what happened, and from what she said, he basicly thought she was at some club with some guy(from hearing sounds in the background aka movie) cheating on him, and that shes a terrible mom for leaving their son home alone and that she shouldn't even be out this late anyways.(It was the night movie, about 10-ish pm) Even though of course he'd be asleep by now in the first place, but it still hurt her alot and she was upset the rest of the movie.
So from what I know from hearing her he does seem to be a jerk, she also told me that the only reason she even accepted the engagement was because of shock and that she was already pregant at the time with her son, so she thought she had no other choice basicly.

Ah well, I'll just have to see how it goes, if she seems to start to like him more, or if she becomes closer to me.
I really appreciate you're thoughts Ledgem. Thank you.

[UltimaWolf]

I think I killed this topic.

[harmonious]

Originally Posted by UltimaWolf

So from what I know from hearing her he does seem to be a jerk, she also told me that the only reason she even accepted the engagement was because of shock and that she was already pregant at the time with her son, so she thought she had no other choice basicly.

Ah well, I'll just have to see how it goes, if she seems to start to like him more, or if she becomes closer to me.
I really appreciate you're thoughts Ledgem. Thank you.

She was having sex with a guy she clearly would not consider marrying? Why would someone even be in such a relationship?

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by harmonious

She was having sex with a guy she clearly would not consider marrying? Why would someone even be in such a relationship?

Sex isnt a pretense for marriage.. The fact that they were having sex does not in any way mean that they were in a very 'serious' relationship in the first place. I'm sure its more complicated than that. Things just might not have turned out the way she wanted.