Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 13 Discussion / Poll

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Cats

Thank you. =)
It's interesting, if the tower's suppose to burn and not fall down then they might be talking about the giant space station in deep interdimensional-space. That would also account for the infinite mumbo jumbo (like say the library) and the ships... since without it the fleets in trouble.

How do you burn in space?

And the 'infinite' was refering to the dimensional-space.

Originally Posted by Cats

I feel like we're still missing some pieces here, in the sense that there must be something we don't know yet.

Yeah, like whose translation is truely accurate?

So far we have about three different takes on what that first line actually said, all of them would have used about the same words but in different ways to get different meanings...

[Chaos2Frozen]

Anybody can blow a horn or something? We need all the members of the "Council of Moonspeakers" to sit down and come to a conclusion...

[felix]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

How do you burn in space?

If multi million dollar movies can be that stupid I don't see why not MSLN.
And also, it can always be taken as a metaphor for "destroyed"

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Cats

If multi million dollar movies can be that stupid I don't see why not MSLN.

How long ago was that movie?

Originally Posted by Cats

And also, it can always be taken as a metaphor for "destroyed"

In any case, I was hoping to summon a bunch of moonspeakers to settle the translation once and for all...

Do I need a goat or something?

[Thisguy]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Yeah, like whose translation is truely accurate?

Well, technically, an accurate translation can't be done without pinning-down what original sentences are saying...
And that's where we're stuck, the sentences can be interpleted in many ways that we can't define what's accurate or not

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Thisguy

Well, technically, an accurate translation can't be done without pinning-down what original sentences are saying...
And that's where we're stuck, the sentences can be interpleted in many ways that we can't define what's accurate or not

Any chance you can just switch out the japanese words with english in it's exact position? In other words, laying it out raw and unrefine...


(P.S - Though off the record, what's your take on what the first line actually says?)

[Mow Yun]

a king shall fall and wings shall be revived from the holy land

the dead shall dance as the tower that lies within the middle earth is burned down

following that, ships that sail the infinite seas shall sink

"Under the Deceased King, the Wing will be revived from the Holy Land."

Aren't wings usually representative of flight? Perhaps these wings are a method of transport to Al-Hazard. Same thing Precia was seeking, which could tie in Scaglietti to her.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Mow Yun

Aren't wings usually representative of flight? Perhaps these wings are a method of transport to Al-Hazard. Same thing Precia was seeking, which could tie in Scaglietti to her.

I'm thinking it could be some sort of super warship... (Not the first time we've seen those )

Because base on the next two lines, whatever "wing" is, it's going be big enough to cause some serious damage.

[Mow Yun]

Going along the same lines as I was before...

the dead shall dance - Precia? because of a method of transport to Al-Hazard?

"Under the deceased king" - maybe it just means the site of where someone important dies? Maybe this person died a long time ago, too. : /

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Mow Yun

Going along the same lines as I was before...

the dead shall dance - Precia? because of a method of transport to Al-Hazard?

Dance could also simply mean that the 'dead' were making their moves...

Originally Posted by Mow Yun

"Under the deceased king" - maybe it just means the site of where someone important dies? Maybe this person died a long time ago, too. : /

There are three different translation for that part of the line...

1, "The dead/dying King's"

2, "Under the deceased king"

3, "a king shall fall"

As you can see, all of them represent a different meaning... So how do we know which one to follow?

[Thisguy]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Any chance you can just switch out the japanese words with english in it's exact position? In other words, laying it out raw and unrefine...

Hmm... I'll try, but me being without proper gramatical knowledges, I don't know how should I "transport" letters like "が", so I'll leave them as they're.
"の" is replaced with "of", but I know that does't apply in all cases, so watch out for many "of"s in where (I think) it's not supposed to be.

Originally Posted by RAW

Ancient(or Old) Crystal and Infinity Desire "が" Meet(or Cross) Place(or Ground, Soil etc)

Dead King of Under(or Below, Beneath), Holy Land from His(or That, The, Certain, etc... depends on how you take it) of Wing Rivive(or Ressurect)

Dead Persons (or Deceased etc) Dance, Middle(or Center) Ground(or Soil, Earth, Terra etc) of Law of Tower "は" Hollowly(or Empty, in Vain etc) Burn Fall(or Drop etc)

That Pioneer(or Ahead, Lead, Take Initiative etc) Many(or Much, Countless, etc) of Sea "を" Protect(or Guard, Save etc) Law of Ship "は" Crash(or Break, Chip, Fragment) Fall(or Drop etc)

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

(P.S - Though off the record, what's your take on what the first line actually says?)

From "Ancient Crystal" and "Infinite Desire", I imagined of Jewel Seed too... and "Place" being Al Hazard.
However, that does not include the factors that "supposed to be" important in StS, like Relic or Numbers, so I kinda denied what I once thought... maybe I'm stone-minded.
However, 2nd line also mentions about the "Holy Land", so now I kinda feel like I'm trying to avoid an inevitable conclusion...
That's where I decided to holp up from further consideration and just wait for upcoming EPs and accept the fact when it's given out.

Anyway, yes, I imagined of Jewel Seed and Al Hazard just like many people in here, that's for sure.

Edit:
Unedited... never mind, it's not of big difference anyway

Edit2:
It's 2 a.m here, I'm going to bed... so I can't see your complaints about how eyebleeding these broken sentences are

[Gearhead]

Spoiler:

The Dead dancing could also point to something that was never alive. Are the Numbers human? Or are they some sort of highly advanced drone with a Lost Logia power source?

[mist2123]

damn i wana h-bomb the old admiral

[FlareKnight]

THis stuff can really be complicated. Just too many meanings just for a single line, then when you put down how each line could be translated it's pretty complex.

Wings...suppose you could go with some sort of transportation, flight. Wings are essential for birds that fly in order to survive. Doubt it's some sort of essential life function. At least it means something would be brought back from this 'Holy Land' which is probably Al-Hazard. So some kind of technology, maybe some power that would carry the one bringing it back to some destiny?

King thing can be a pretty big mess. Either the King is already dead or is going to die. Simply I can take prophecies, not to mention ones that are being translated from another language which just adds to the confusion.

Most likely it'll be some crazy result that no one will see coming. Though with the amount of theories coming out a combination of people may end up being right.

[Reiji Tabibito]

Originally Posted by Estavali

(The) Ancient Crystal and the Place where Infinite/Unlimited Desires meets;
The dead/dying King's Wings is resurrected/revived from the Holy Ground/Land;
The Dead dance, the Law Tower in the Middle/Central Land burns helplessly;
Following that, ships that protects the many oceans should perish as well.



The old Crystal (note: or the Crystal of Old) and the Place where Infinite/Unlimited Desires meet;
Under the King of Death, His wings shall be awakened at the Holy Ground/Land;
The Dead are dancing, the Tower of Law in the Middle Land shall be burnt to naught;
Their pioneers, the ships of Law that guards innumerable oceans shall also be scattered.

Okay, now that a full translation is available, it's time to once again... BREAK. IT. DOWN!

Spoiler for Analyzing the Translations:

First Line: The references here are smack-you-in-the-face obvious.

Ancient Crystal: A reference to either the Jewel Seeds or the most powerful Relic.

Place where Infinite/Unlimited Desires Meet: Al Hazred. No two ways about it. The technology of Al Hazred, according to the first series, had the power to grant almost any desire - even raising the dead.

Second Line:

The King: There are two translations here: the King of Death, and the Dying King.

Dying King: The most obvious scenario in my mind is the death of someone important as the catalyst (similar to Yggdra Union's sacrifice of Gulcasa in order to summon Brongaa). This could easily be anyone of power & importance.

The King of Death: We don't know the gender of the Client, so at this point I'm going to say Scaglietti. He's been responsible for the Relic Incidents, and has created scores of Drones to achieve his objectives.

The Holy Land: Though Al Hazred has been taken, it's still possible. In season 1, Precia referred to her departure to Al Hazred as an "exodus." Where did the Israelites go on the original Exodus? The Promised Land, referred to during the Crusades as "the Holy Land." Otherwise, it's a place we've not heard much of yet.

Wings: This could be a weapon, a mode of transportation, anything. Reserving judgment until more info is available.

Third Line:

The Dead Dance: We can surmise that this is a reference to the Numbers. They are most likely some of the subjects that Scaglietti was keeping in those enormous tubes in his lab, artificial persons who are not really "alive."

The Tower of Law: Any TSAB structure which even vaguely resembles a tower - probably not MD6 HQ, the shots I've seen of it have no huge tower-like structure.

Middle/Central Land: Mid-Childia.

The Ships of Law: This is probably in connection to the Tower, which would be an all-out attack on TSAB - someone will probably go after the TSAB Docks/Shipyards where vessels are constructed/repaired - Pearl Harbor anyone?

Okay so that's my thoughts. But what could this mean for the OC Thread's RAF?

Spoiler for Implications for the RAF:

They're a mobile force mostly - so the Tower would likely not apply to them. However, this could mean a great deal of the RAF's vessels are damaged/destroyed, keeping with the "Ships of Law" phrase of Carim's Revelation.

[Seiryuu]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Here's the problem with that - Alica has NO magic talent.

So whatever Leet being that's going to come out of that revival, is not going to be Alica cause nobody is going to risk all that for nothing.

Not true, we don't really know how much talent she had but she almost certainly had potential. After all, Fate is a clone of Alicia so if Alicia was powerless Fate wouldn't be the black devil she is today. The Tome incident was a dream, Fate even said so, because Fate wouldn't have been born if Alicia hadn't died. Thus, there would be no problem with Alicia being reborn or with her being powerful, if the creators chose to go down that path. Also, the reason dream Alicia was significantly weaker than Fate was because Fate had longed to be loved and praised by Precia and not seen as inferior to Alicia.
Anyway, that's just the "revived wings", which may also mean the revival of some great power long dormant, like if Alhazred were found...
There's some spots that I don't think I've seen any speculation on as well. I think this is what was said in the prophecy(in Japanese), so what does it mean?

Spoiler for The Prophecy:

Furui keshioto, mugen no yokubou ga tsudoi majiwaru chi.
Shiseru no Ou no moto, seichi yori, ka no tsubasa ga yomigaeru.
Shisha-tachi ga odori, nakatsu daichi no hou no tou wa munashiku yakeochi.
Sore wa sakigake ni, amata no umi wo mamoru hou no fune mo kudake ochiru.

I think we can rule out "the dead will dance" as referring to Precia(I think someone suggested that), since the "dead" is plural here.

Much of this seems to speak of something ancient. Perhaps "from the dead king" as in coming from some dead royal line. Similarly the "dance of the dead" could refer to the people of some land that's been destroyed. Perhaps it says "In the Middle(or lost?) land where the dead shall dance, the Tower of Law shall burn and fall in vain." I'm wondering about a few things though: What's the "eternal/infinite desire"? Who, or what, is "sakigake", I believe it means pioneer, and what sea is it that the vessel that gets smashed is protecting?
Finally, it doesn't just say "Tsubasa(wings)", it says "Ka no Tsubasa". So what does the "ka" mean? I think I've heard "ka" can mean fire, so is this the "Wings of Flame"?

[Chaos2Frozen]

@Seiryuu

NO no~

It's canon information that Alica HAS NONE of her mother's magic talent. It's From the Novel. Fate was that one the has her mother's potential through the luck of the genetic draw.

I repeat. ALICA. IS. POWERLESS.

Everybody who knows her knows she's powerless. Nobody knows what goes on in AL Hazard or even if she'll make it. NO reason to bring back someone they believe is powerless and can't help them!

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Estavali

(The) Ancient Crystal and the Place where Infinite/Unlimited Desires meets;
The dead/dying King's Wings is resurrected/revived from the Holy Ground/Land;
The Dead dance, the Law Tower in the Middle/Central Land burns helplessly;
Following that, ships that protects the many oceans should perish as well.


The old Crystal (note: or the Crystal of Old) and the Place where Infinite/Unlimited Desires meet;
Under the King of Death, His wings shall be awakened at the Holy Ground/Land;
The Dead are dancing, the Tower of Law in the Middle Land shall be burnt to naught;
Their pioneers, the ships of Law that guards innumerable oceans shall also be scattered.

Hope this helps somewhat .

oh interesting...this whole "prophecy" garbage had me thinking about the 2nd pokemon movie for a while

heres my 2 cents ~

1) its so obvious that its talking about Al Hazred and the ancient powers it holds...

2) i actually suspect that there is another device that is the polar opposite to hayate's tome...this could finally be a challanged for the unrivaled princess if it proves to be true...i can imagine someone gaining the powers of the death king (or whatever)...maybe spaghetti has more of a role that i thought...

3) and 4) points directly to the downfall of the TSAB...seeing how corrupt some commanders are i wouldnt be surprised if their incompetence will be their downfall to an attack ~ the dead would mean the unliving...or the puppets which points to the clones/relic fighters...the law of the universe is going down it seems...

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

oh interesting...this whole "prophecy" garbage had me thinking about the 2nd pokemon movie for a while

Heh

"The world will turn to ash..."

I feel so stupid for not getting that the first time

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

2) i actually suspect that there is another device that is the polar opposite to hayate's tome...this could finally be a challanged for the unrivaled princess if it proves to be true...i can imagine someone gaining the powers of the death king (or whatever)...maybe spaghetti has more of a role that i thought...

This second line is the answer to whatever that is going to happen... Unfortunately, it all depens on how the words describing the "King" is used, and we have 3 of them

When I read the first translation posted here, it was "a king shall fall" followed by "the wings will be revived from the holy lands".

Base on the previous statments from the villians side, I concluded the "King" would be Vivio and that she would be the material for a summoning/calling fore.

But now with the other two possible meanings... *Shrugged*

[Xellos-_^]

So Dr Pervert is going to access El Hazard and activiate the Eye of God. Using the Eye of God, he will demolish Midchilda and the TSBA.