[Manga] Naruto Chapter 578 Discussion

[Nintendo]

i believe kabuto said he could bring shisui back if he had his eye that danzo crushed, but tobi has it and didnt seem like he was willing to part with it.

[Eragon]

I hope they actually use their skill with ninjutsu in this fight, 'cause I haven't seen that many jutsu's being used in the others. I mean naruto's fights are always about who has more power. Madara vs 5 Kages fight also doesn't have as much skill with jutsu's as I expected. The Kakashi-Zabuza, Itachi-Kakashi fights had more skillfulness than these fights, IMO.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay

There are ofcourse other ninja that could be summoned. Tobi seems to have all the eyes of the Uchiha that were slain by Itachi so for all we know Kabuto could summon several Uchiha members of the Konoha police force.

There are so many possibilities with Edo Tensei.

I think that we have to rule out some possible edo tensei summons if we want a Naruto vs Sasuke battle like we expected to have. I mean if Sasuke learns the whole truth he might give up trying to kill Naruto and all others from Konoha. I also ruled out the chance of Sasuke being captured by Kabuto because of the same reasons.

However by the same logic giving Itachi too much time to talk with Sasuke might prevent a Sasuke vs Naruto fight, that would mean that either Kabuto or Tobi will somehow prevent such a happy end right now.

Or maybe Kishimoto doesn't want to do a Naruto vs Sasuke battle?

[23 gundam fan]

Originally Posted by DJ*

Madara is Kishi's 'Vegitto'. His most powerful rival characters combined into one ludicrously powerful being that will go down arguably 'undefeated'.

i havent thought about madara like that but you are right. even goku would be praying to get some help if he faced madara. thats how bad-ass he is.

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay

I think it's obvious that Kabuto has something up his sleeve.

He's not going to beat Sasuke and Itachi with a bunch of crazy snake jutsu.

He's got to use Edo Tensei and the best way to counter Sharingan is with Sharingan.

Kabuto did say he doesn't have the DNA of Jiraiya and Shisui.

Jiraiya drowned but Danzo had Shisui's eye and arm so Kabuto could have acquired it from Danzo's corpse. He is a sneaky ninja so perhaps he learned about Danzo's body being in the Akatsuki hideout while preparing for the war.

There are ofcourse other ninja that could be summoned. Tobi seems to have all the eyes of the Uchiha that were slain by Itachi so for all we know Kabuto could summon several Uchiha members of the Konoha police force.

There are so many possibilities with Edo Tensei.

Kabuto still has the advantage without pulling some crazy hax ability. Although with Kishi's writing at the moment, a hax ability is almost a given.

Why does Kabuto want Sasuke? It would likely be for the same reason Oro did since Kabuto is Oro 2.0. Fushi Tensei. To switch bodies with him. Because of the sharingan, he would need to bring Sasuke near the point of death during a fight for him to be weak enough for it to work. So Sasuke just helped Kabuto by showing up. If Itachi makes Kabuto undo Edo Tensei, than Itachi also disappears leaving Sasuke alone with Kabuto. At his point, Kabuto shouldn't care about Edo Tensei. He expects Madara to have killed the Kages. He already got his use out of it and canceling it removes Itachi and Madara from the equation. Then he would have Sasuke's body to confront Tobi with since I doubt Kabuto wants the Eye of the Moon Plan to be successful. Tobi and whatever army he has left should be weakened by Naruto and the Alliance Army. Or if Kabuto is lucky, already dead. Then Kabuto emerges as the true winner of the war. Of course, none of that is going to happen. Sasuke will likely kill Kabuto. But that might be what Kabuto is planning on.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

However by the same logic giving Itachi too much time to talk with Sasuke might prevent a Sasuke vs Naruto fight, that would mean that either Kabuto or Tobi will somehow prevent such a happy end right now.

Or maybe Kishimoto doesn't want to do a Naruto vs Sasuke battle?

I think the naruto v sasuke fight is pretty destined like their fight at VotE. It is odd how sasuke is being rational and kind of nice lately, but I think that will change back and sasuke will get screwed once again and turn evil, probably gaining rinnegan. my hunch is that whatever juugo and suigetsu found will ruin sasuke's attitude change and probably interfere with itachi's plan for good again. also, kabuto can't be a pushover at this point or it will seem lackluster, so he should be able to cause some despair in sasuke again as well

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

I think the naruto v sasuke fight is pretty destined like their fight at VotE. It is odd how sasuke is being rational and kind of nice lately, but I think that will change back and sasuke will get screwed once again and turn evil, probably gaining rinnegan. my hunch is that whatever juugo and suigetsu found will ruin sasuke's attitude change and probably interfere with itachi's plan for good again. also, kabuto can't be a pushover at this point or it will seem lackluster, so he should be able to cause some despair in sasuke again as well

I agree that there better be a Naruto vs Sasuke fight where Sasuke is going for the kill. But currently there are many things that can change that:
1, Kabuto captures Sasuke, this can be either because he is so strong or because Itachi chooses to save the alliance over saving Sasuke, or Tobi's interference somehow messes up things. Kabuto controlling Sasuke and making him fight Naruto would be wrong in my opinion, because the whole fight is meant to be about Naruto being able to change Sasuke's way of thinking, but if he is just a puppet then Sasuke has no free will. And i believe that Sasuke must have his free will when he fights Naruto. I think that rules out the chance of Shisui being summoned by Kabuto and making Sasuke Kabuto's puppet.
2, Sasuke talks with Itachi and his thinking changes
3, Kabuto summons some dead Uchiha (Shisui or Sasuke's parents, etc.) and there's some Uchiha talk, where the truth is revealed, and Itachi's decision starts to make sense, the blame switches from Konoha to Tobi

Of course these encounters can lead to the opposite too: Sasuke thinks that the new revelations also justify his decision to take revenge on Konoha. But if that happens many people will complain how idiotic Sasuke is again

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

It is odd how sasuke is being rational and kind

That's just towards Itachi, no one else.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

If Itachi makes Kabuto undo Edo Tensei, than Itachi also disappears leaving Sasuke alone with Kabuto. At his point, Kabuto shouldn't care about Edo Tensei. He expects Madara to have killed the Kages. He already got his use out of it and canceling it removes Itachi and Madara from the equation. Then he would have Sasuke's body to confront Tobi with since I doubt Kabuto wants the Eye of the Moon Plan to be successful. Tobi and whatever army he has left should be weakened by Naruto and the Alliance Army. Or if Kabuto is lucky, already dead. Then Kabuto emerges as the true winner of the war.

I think Kabuto was directly observing the fight between the Kages and Madara using Muu's body. Even if he weren't, he can perceive what's happening. He should know Madara has a distinct advantage, but that the Kages are far from being defeated--it would be incredibly risky for him to intentionally end Edo Tensei now.

Agree that Kabuto probably plans on taking Sasuke's body. But Kabuto almost always avoids fighting directly. He will if he's pressed, but even then he relies on tricks. He should have something prepared against Sharingan if he's learned anything from Oro. This huge discovery that Juugo and Suigetsu found:I'm wondering if maybe Kabuto already has it....he sure seems confident.

[Shining Celebi]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Kabuto still has the advantage without pulling some crazy hax ability. Although with Kishi's writing at the moment, a hax ability is almost a given.

Kabuto has already said he has a jutsu even better than Edo Tensei/a trump card.

Jiraiya drowned but Danzo had Shisui's eye and arm so Kabuto could have acquired it from Danzo's corpse. He is a sneaky ninja so perhaps he learned about Danzo's body being in the Akatsuki hideout while preparing for the war.

Kabuto asked Tobi for the DNA of Jiraiya and Shisui after he had left the hideout, when he had already deployed the Edo Tensei zombies. And he did know that Danzou's body was in the hideout, and he knew that Pain's old weapons were apparently there, that's why he asked Tobi for them.

I'm not sure what possible reason he would have to lie.

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Kabuto still has the advantage without pulling some crazy hax ability. Although with Kishi's writing at the moment, a hax ability is almost a given.

Why does Kabuto want Sasuke? It would likely be for the same reason Oro did since Kabuto is Oro 2.0. Fushi Tensei. To switch bodies with him. Because of the sharingan, he would need to bring Sasuke near the point of death during a fight for him to be weak enough for it to work. So Sasuke just helped Kabuto by showing up. If Itachi makes Kabuto undo Edo Tensei, than Itachi also disappears leaving Sasuke alone with Kabuto. At his point, Kabuto shouldn't care about Edo Tensei.

Edo Tensei is summoning/binding + control.

Kabuto says Edo Tensei is just a kind of summoning jutsu. And, in fact, they seem to work like Edo Tensei: dying does not end a summoning technique, like when Enma stayed around for a bit after Hiruzen died. The summon chooses when they leave. Otherwise, Manda wouldn't have been able to threaten Orochimaru, Orochimaru could just desummon Manda if he became troublesome.

It's most logical that Edo Tensei can only be ended because the user has control over the zombies and can make them leave. If the user does not have control over the zombies, then he cannot un-summon them, anymore than he can un-summon any other kind of summon. It's up to them.

Most the soul-binding makes it so that you have to be "at peace" to bring yourself back, but Itachi will probably be happy enough once he beats Kabuto and saves the world and all that.

[Ulquiorra]

The only zombie I believe left to fight, outside of Itachi, Muu, and Madara, is Torune Aburame. I wonder if Kabuto will ever use him? Not that he matters, but at least throw him at Sasuke as fodder.

Originally Posted by Shining Celebi

Edo Tensei is summoning/binding + control.

Kabuto says Edo Tensei is just a kind of summoning jutsu. And, in fact, they seem to work like Edo Tensei: dying does not end a summoning technique, like when Enma stayed around for a bit after Hiruzen died. The summon chooses when they leave. Otherwise, Manda wouldn't have been able to threaten Orochimaru, Orochimaru could just desummon Manda if he became troublesome.

It's most logical that Edo Tensei can only be ended because the user has control over the zombies and can make them leave. If the user does not have control over the zombies, then he cannot un-summon them, anymore than he can un-summon any other kind of summon. It's up to them.

Most the soul-binding makes it so that you have to be "at peace" to bring yourself back, but Itachi will probably be happy enough once he beats Kabuto and saves the world and all that.

We'll have to see what rules Kishimoto has Edo Tensei play by. I still believe that undoing Edo Tensei frees the soul from the corpse that Kabuto used. So even if a zombie freed himself from control like Itachi, he still would crumble away once the jutsu is un-done. Because the only thing that should make Itachi be at peace is seeing Sasuke change. Which Sasuke cannot do yet. Otherwise he would want to stay around and help defeat Tobi. That would be really saving the world. So this is a way for Itachi to disappear and Sasuke to still fight Naruto.

[Shining Celebi]

Itachi doesn't need to settle everything in his life to be at peace. He has already said he has faith that Naruto can deal with Sasuke. He is already at peace with that. As far as he is concerned he only has one task left to do in the world, and that is to stop the Edo Tensei.

It _could_ go the way where Kabuto can for some reason only cancel all of the Edo Tenseis at once and regardless of whether they are under his control or not, but it would break all the rules we currently know about summoning and jutsu. No other summon works like that, and I can't think of any all or nothing jutsu. If you create two Kage Bunshin, you can cancel one, or any other jutsu like that.

[TimeMask]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I think Kabuto was directly observing the fight between the Kages and Madara using Muu's body. Even if he weren't, he can perceive what's happening. He should know Madara has a distinct advantage, but that the Kages are far from being defeated--it would be incredibly risky for him to intentionally end Edo Tensei now.

Agree that Kabuto probably plans on taking Sasuke's body. But Kabuto almost always avoids fighting directly. He will if he's pressed, but even then he relies on tricks. He should have something prepared against Sharingan if he's learned anything from Oro. This huge discovery that Juugo and Suigetsu found:I'm wondering if maybe Kabuto already has it....he sure seems confident.

Kabuto used to avoid fights but now that he's Oro 2.0 he may be more reckless and fight Sasuke himself later on like Oro would.

Maybe Kabuto's rear snake is for breaking him out of genjutsu, if the snake has been trained to put its chakra into Kabuto.

[Nintendo]

kaburo doesnt want sasuke like oro, he wants sasuke dead for killing oro the first time. kabuto is still in his body, doesnt need a new vessel like oro needed.

[SoKanon]

Im glad that we have Itachi around again. He was since the beginning a very interesting character. The uchiha brothers fight against kabuto will be very entertaining i think.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

The only zombie I believe left to fight, outside of Itachi, Muu, and Madara, is Torune Aburame. I wonder if Kabuto will ever use him? Not that he matters, but at least throw him at Sasuke as fodder.

did we see him die? of fuu for that matter? also, they weren't exactly impressive ninjas compared to the fights we've been seeing lately. there's no point in bringing him back as 'fodder' since it wouldn't be exciting at all and right now I feel like kabuto needs to do something exciting to live up to a year or so long hype.

[Sasukemaru]

I think this war has exposed the biggest lies told in the series

Every generation does not surpass the previous, the only one to do that has been narutos generation with kakashis. The 3rd hokage isn't the strongest ninja to ever live, the so6p did in fact exist, and there has never been a kid younger then 12 year old naruto and stronger then pts kakashi. Oddly enough all of this misinformation came from kakashi. Ppl should stop taking what he says as gospel, and consider the fact what he says is usually wrong

[HiddenMessage]

Originally Posted by Sasukemaru

I think this war has exposed the biggest lies told in the series

Every generation does not surpass the previous, the only one to do that has been narutos generation with kakashis. The 3rd hokage isn't the strongest ninja to ever live, the so6p did in fact exist, and there has never been a kid younger then 12 year old naruto and stronger then pts kakashi. Oddly enough all of this misinformation came from kakashi. Ppl should stop taking what he says as gospel, and consider the fact what he says is usually wrong

Every God(Sage of the 6 paths) needs his Prophets. Kakashi is just one of his many who interpreted his message wrong. At least Kakashi didn't turn out like Tobi or Madara who believes brute strength, pure lineage, and power to be the only thing that determines a person's worth.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Sasukemaru

I think this war has exposed the biggest lies told in the series

Every generation does not surpass the previous, the only one to do that has been narutos generation with kakashis. The 3rd hokage isn't the strongest ninja to ever live, the so6p did in fact exist, and there has never been a kid younger then 12 year old naruto and stronger then pts kakashi. Oddly enough all of this misinformation came from kakashi. Ppl should stop taking what he says as gospel, and consider the fact what he says is usually wrong

true, but it's based on interpretation. the argument could be made that the lesson means that the brightest students surpass their masters. I never took it to mean that all ninja of a generation surpass the previous one. for instance, I'm sure nobody thought kiba would ever surpass kakashi or something like that. It's a lesson that is correct most of the time, but you're right about particular ninja like madara and hashirama being so built up lately which I like, but it does expose some flaws in the lesson since nobody but naruto and sasuke could surpass them now leaving a large generational gap. also, the 3rd has been severely lowered since the first part like you said. the ET retcon took care of him pretty much since at one point we were certainly made to believe that he could fight 2 previous kages and orochimaru at once. now he wouldnt even come close to beating hashirama one on one. I wouldnt call kakashi's words lies though, there were just a handful of exceptions to his lesson. it's correct most of the time that a master will have a student who surpasses him

[Eragon]

Itachi-san314's argument about student surpasing their teacher. It fits better to the story so far. We have Minato, Nagato, Naruto surpassing Jiraya, Sasuke surpassing Kakashi and Oro, Oro surpassing Sarutobi and the like. Well I shouldn't include Naruto in it since he's bound to surpass everyone before him(which really pisses me off).

[TimeMask]

Originally Posted by Nintendo

kaburo doesnt want sasuke like oro, he wants sasuke dead for killing oro the first time. kabuto is still in his body, doesnt need a new vessel like oro needed.

Spoiler for Kabuto snake body:

Kabuto's real body is shown above and he seems to need a body to go inside like Oro. This means Kabuto probably does want to use Sasuke as a vessel so now Kabuto just seems like a stronger copy of Oro.

If we are lucky Tobi will be unmasked soon as Naruto said he wanted to take off his mask.