Fate/stay night Game discussion (Warning: Spoilers)

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Haak

Spoiler for space:

We all know it but it's pretty much confirmed in this interview that Nasu sees Shirou's relationship with Sakura as genuine love whilst the others were more idealistic romance. It's interesting though that Urobuchi sees differently. Death of the Author at play here, I guess.

Spoiler for interview:

No, Gen sees it as Nasu. He even complimented how he actually pulled off Koi vs Ai in his heroines. He might like Rin better with Shirou (and Dark Sakura with himself ), but he said that:

Uro: I see. You really did separate "romance" and "love" with your heroines.

I mean it was obvious, structure wise.

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

The difference is that Sakura is only like that temporarily. With Kotomine, it's permanent.

But that makes him tragic, isn't it? He never chose to. He struggled in agony during his entire life to change this. He was going to kill himself even to some point. Kotomine is an interesting character because his nature is of a wicked man but he had a righteous, virtuous upbringing.

Can you picture how much he suffered? If he didn't do evil, he couldn't feel anything. If he did evil, part of him hated himself because it was against common sense. Zouken even mocked him because he would never get normal sense of happiness and fit in society. Ouch.

Small wonder why he just wants to know why it had to be this way. Just that: why.

If was a typical villain who never struggled over two decades or agony trying to be a good boy, I wouldn't have any sympathy, but Kirei tried his very, very best to change himself to the point of masochism. But it didn't work out. Hell, it took the King of Heroes + the death of someone very important + The Grail spelling it aloud for him to embrace it a little.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Thess

Spoiler for interview:

No, Gen sees it as Nasu. He even complimented how he actually pulled off Koi vs Ai in his heroines. He might like Rin better with Shirou (and Dark Sakura with himself ), but he said that:

I mean it was obvious, structure wise.

.

Spoiler for Interview:

I think he was just acknowledging what Nasu said earlier about the difference between love and romance and how that related to Sakura. Because first Nasu said:

Nasu: "Romance" is something where one person simply strives to realize their ideals. "Love," on the other hand, is something where two people accept painful realities. There are no ideals to be found there. It's just about coming to terms with reality. They don't even have time to dream... but you can't just keep pushing harsh realities over the hopes and dreams of young people. Let's talk about something more fun!

And then he said later on:

Nasu: Getting back on track, I think Fate/stay night does lack that "battle royale" atmosphere, but I really wanted to make it a work that would make the users want to get to know Saber and Rin better, or cuddle with Sakura. Saber and Rin respresent the fun and sweetness of romance. But I wanted to express the tragic nature of love with Sakura.

But it sounds me that Gen sees differently. He said Sakura was a different type of love earlier.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Haak

Spoiler for Interview:

I think he was just acknowledging what Nasu said earlier about the difference between love and romance and how that related to Sakura. Because first Nasu said:

Nasu: "Romance" is something where one person simply strives to realize their ideals. "Love," on the other hand, is something where two people accept painful realities. There are no ideals to be found there. It's just about coming to terms with reality. They don't even have time to dream... but you can't just keep pushing harsh realities over the hopes and dreams of young people. Let's talk about something more fun!

And then he said later on:

Nasu: Getting back on track, I think Fate/stay night does lack that "battle royale" atmosphere, but I really wanted to make it a work that would make the users want to get to know Saber and Rin better, or cuddle with Sakura. Saber and Rin respresent the fun and sweetness of romance. But I wanted to express the tragic nature of love with Sakura.

But it sounds me that Gen sees differently. He said Sakura was a different type of love earlier.

I think he meant Sakura was a different type of love than Saber and Rin. Saber and Rin's love is more like the regular kind, but Sakura's love shows the dark side of it.

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by Thess

But that makes him tragic, isn't it? He never chose to. He struggled in agony during his entire life to change this. He was going to kill himself even to some point. Kotomine is an interesting character because his nature is of a wicked man but he had a righteous, virtuous upbringing.

Can you picture how much he suffered? If he didn't do evil, he couldn't feel anything. If he did evil, part of him hated himself because it was against common sense. Zouken even mocked him because he would never get normal sense of happiness and fit in society. Ouch.

Small wonder why he just wants to know why it had to be this way. Just that: why.

If was a typical villain who never struggled over two decades or agony trying to be a good boy, I wouldn't have any sympathy, but Kirei tried his very, very best to change himself to the point of masochism. But it didn't work out. Hell, it took the King of Heroes + the death of someone very important + The Grail spelling it aloud for him to embrace it a little.

Yeah, it makes him "tragic", but it also makes him fundamentally different from Sakura. He is a sympathetic villain, whereas Sakura is a protagonist who has gone temporarily insane and who can be saved.

There is nothing Shirou could do but kill Kotomine. He is simply incapable of living in any way but by being evil. Sakura, on the other hand, could be turned back into her normal self and live a normal life as a fundamentally good person.

Originally Posted by chaos_alfa

I think he meant Sakura was a different type of love than Saber and Rin. Saber and Rin's love are the normal kind more or less, but Sakura is the dark kind.

Erm, what?

In what way is Sakura's love "dark"?

[LostHanyou]

But wait! What if it were female Kotomine?

Easily potential heroine.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Erm, what?

In what way is Sakura's love "dark"?

Well that's half what Urobuchi said:

Spoiler for interview:

Uro: There's yet another different type of love depicted in the Sakura route. It really expresses the dark sides that all women have, but how men can accept that and love women regardless. Something akin to the "dignity of men" comes across.

Though I think what chaos_alfa meant was "cynical": Overall, that type of love is more cynical because it expresses more dark sides.

[Altima of the Gates]

There really isn't a "normal" type of love. From what they said it more seems to me to be showcasing the "bumps in the road of love" with Sakura, while highlighting the magic of courtship with Saber and Rin. For Sakura and Shirou, they *both* have to accept things they cannot change but moved through it with love, Shirou knowing there are wounds.he might not be able to heal for Sakura and vice-versa. The tragedy of knowing you might not be able to shield your loved one from pain, no matter how much you wish to. Urobuchi was pretty much being the cynical one when he added in "the dark side that all women have" part, because that is irrelevant, since all people have dark sides..

[Owaride no Sekai]

Ok, guy's I'll apologize in advance for breaking topic.

But there's this troll that's been bugging me for a week and I just want to get your opinion on this.Let me just state that I have no doubt's on this matter since it's ratter obvious, but this has me at my limit(Patience).

Is Gilgamesh the strongest servant(so far) in the Holy Grail Wars, this includes Fate,UBW,HF, HA and Zero. And pretty much F/SN verse in general.

I personally know he is but this Jackass has been blowing his horn for awhile saying that "Saber with Avalon can beat anybody" is the stupidest shit.Ever.I'm really doubting his intelligence.

UPDATE:Yup he's a troll
this is the comments section btw.Not sure if you guys could live through that...READ AT YOUR OWN RISK. Troll is Mr. Freeze. I really want to punch that Kid.

[Owaride no Sekai]

http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=JJcf7EviOXo

[Ragna92]

http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=435277

Here read this. It should make it pretty clear who's the strongest servant.

[mAc Chaos]

Gilgamesh can beat anyone if he's serious.

He's just never serious.

The other characters can still all win, though. A lot of the power in Fate is conditional. It's all "this guy is invincible EXCEPT" loophole type things. So if they managed to play their cards right and get into an advantageous situation they could win.

But Gilgamesh would never let them if he was serious.

[Owaride no Sekai]

That's what I was saying(or at least trying to get across)But that idiot kept spewing nonsense.
I'm not replying him anymore but he'll just keep trolling...ugh...is so annoying. I'm going to let it go though...it's not worth wasting my time over.

[Xellos-_^]

not sure what forum you are in but in AS there is a ignore list. You can add poster you don't like to the list and will never see their post ever, unless someone is quoting it.

[GDB]

It's youtube, he posted the link. Why you would ever engage a youtube commenter for anything is beyond me, though.

[Owaride no Sekai]

I don't know which was my first comment but I was "sure" it would have been my last...too bad I didn't think I would've meet some one who's only seen the anime and movie. He literally took everything that happened in there as unshakable cannon. That and I have a short temper, but a lot of patience...deadly combination.

I guess I'm kinda easy to lure...

[Touko]

Originally Posted by Owaride no Sekai

Ok, guy's I'll apologize in advance for breaking topic.

But there's this troll that's been bugging me for a week and I just want to get your opinion on this.Let me just state that I have no doubt's on this matter since it's ratter obvious, but this has me at my limit(Patience).

Is Gilgamesh the strongest servant(so far) in the Holy Grail Wars, this includes Fate,UBW,HF, HA and Zero. And pretty much F/SN verse in general.

I personally know he is but this Jackass has been blowing his horn for awhile saying that "Saber with Avalon can beat anybody" is the stupidest shit.Ever.I'm really doubting his intelligence.

UPDATE:Yup he's a troll
this is the comments section btw.Not sure if you guys could live through that...READ AT YOUR OWN RISK. Troll is Mr. Freeze. I really want to punch that Kid.

He is Nasu approved strongest Heroic Spirit, a "Slayer of Heroes", no less.

Avalon is indeed very powerful, and can hold off Enuma Elish. However, at the end of the day, it is but a defensive Noble Phantasm.

In the Fate Route, Gilgamesh was pretty much stunned by the fact that something actually held off Ea. That pause and hesitation gave Sabre a good window to Excalibur him in the face.

Strongest Servat, no doubt. But Gilgamesh will die to women and children, because Nasu said so.

[mAc Chaos]

Originally Posted by Owaride no Sekai

I don't know which was my first comment but I was "sure" it would have been my last...too bad I didn't think I would've meet some one who's only seen the anime and movie. He literally took everything that happened in there as unshakable cannon. That and I have a short temper, but a lot of patience...deadly combination.

I guess I'm kinda easy to lure...

If you spend all your time trying to police every comment out there on the internet by any random guy then you're going to be stuck doing that all day.

[Touko]

Originally Posted by mAc Chaos

If you spend all your time trying to police every comment out there on the internet by any random guy then you're going to be stuck doing that all day.

But you must defend the honour of your husbando/waifu/hero.

Eating, sleeping, and working are over-rated.

[mAc Chaos]

You sound like food. :P

[Touko]

Originally Posted by mAc Chaos

You sound like food. :P

That's because I am food.