Danganronpa - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[jeroz]

This is less of a trial than a game of werewolves where the villagers witch hunt to find the scapegoat, except with bigger consequences

[GreyZone]

As jeroz said, the "trial" is the one you should know from games of "Werewolves" or "Mafia". And with mafia, I do not mean the GTAsque game...

[Jan-Poo]

Really, excluding Kyouko and Naegi the level of intelligence of the characters is really quite low. Suddenly Monokuma reveals the identity of the mole for nothing and they don't even ask themselves why would he do that.

I'm not sure someone even qualifies as "mole" anymore if everyone knows of his connection with the enemy.

Of course I'm not saying that they should have completely trusted Sakura after that, but they just played on Monokuma's hand.


Regarding the murder, I think the "Checkov's poison" must have had a part on it and it's probably what killed Sakura. There are signs on powder on her shoes and signs that she vomited blood.
Moreover the closed room scenario is hard to explain unless Sakura created it herself and poison would have certainly allowed her to be killed after that.

The interesting parts are Sakura declaring that she wanted to settle things and the fact that apparently Sakura planned to meet all the three persons that were hostile against her in that precise room.

The real question here is whether she called all of them together or each at different times, but I think it's probably the latter. The next episode will probably focus on who among those three was the killer and given the amount of clues and stuff that was manipulated in the room, they probably all went there and altered the scene.
This might turn out as another Fujisaki's case but with more red herrings.

Then again as someone pointed out the initial suspects are never the culprits, and if we exclude Naegi and Kyouko, that only leaves Aoi, Sakura herself and the 16th student.

BTW it's not like I'm flat out excluding Kyouko as a possible culprit in general, but if the story was going for such a twist it would be most likely near the very end, this is too early.

So well I guess the safest bets are either on Aoi or Sakura, but it's really unthinkable that Aoi would kill Sakura so I'm leaning toward the idea that somehow Sakura tricked Aoi into killing her (with poison it could be possible) while at the same time framing the people that hurt her.

In other words this could be a whole master plan from Sakura to free Aoi. She must have come to this decision after she realized that she her friend was in danger if she stayed in that school longer.


BTW, I feel like I'm the only one who noticed the blatant reference:

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[Klashikari]

^ I was actually worried people would call that a TTGL reference instead of AnJ...

[White Manju Bun]

Originally Posted by broken270

Maybe because it sounded forced? Aoi was on the verge of breaking down the last case, and cried when she saw the deaths of the last two victims. You may have thought that Aoi would just completely lose her willpower when her best friend died, but moved on without tearing up.

My initial reply was going to be, to me Aoi sounded surprised Sakura was dead. But that's a rather easy remark to make in this case.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

So well I guess the safest bets are either on Aoi or Sakura, but it's really unthinkable that Aoi would kill Sakura so I'm leaning toward the idea that somehow Sakura tricked Aoi into killing her (with poison it could be possible) while at the same time framing the people that hurt her.

I did bring up Sakura tricking Aoi to a friend of mine who's watching this and he pointed out that doesn't really seem like something she'd do. But who knows.

However, Aoi's reaction make me feel, whatever happened the last time she saw Sakura, her dying was the last thing Aoi expected.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Really, excluding Kyouko and Naegi the level of intelligence of the characters is really quite low. Suddenly Monokuma reveals the identity of the mole for nothing and they don't even ask themselves why would he do that.

I'm not sure someone even qualifies as "mole" anymore if everyone knows of his connection with the enemy.

Yeah, especially the guy who hangs out with the serial killer who said she wanted to kill him.

BTW, I feel like I'm the only one who noticed the blatant reference:

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Nah, it's been brought up earlier.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by White Manju Bun

I did bring up Sakura tricking Aoi to a friend of mine who's watching this and he pointed out that doesn't really seem like something she'd do. But who knows.

The problem is that I have even less reasons to think that Aoi would kill Sakura (and everyone else by extension).
Also the Sakura suicide theory is even more unlikely on that regard, because by doing so without explicitly leaving evidences that she killed herself would automatically mean killing everyone, Asahina included, and not a single one winning (Monokuma would be delighted).

So while I agree that Sakura doing what I theorized would be strange, it's still less strange than the alternatives. And BTW I had the same problem with Yamada. I could see how he could be tricked into killing Ishimaru after thinking of him as a villain, but how could he simply be fine with everyone else dying especially given his obsession with Justice?

So well right now the only persons that I wouldn't be surprised of if they decided to let everyone else die to save themselves are Togami, Fukawa and Hagakure, i.e. the three suspects.

Everyone else would come as a surprise.

[Solitaired]

For those who thought of suicide as a theory. What do you think will happen in the trial if Sakura really committed suicide? Example, if a culprit tried to kill a third victim, Monokuma will step in to interfere to prevent the murder; it won't be fun to execute the culprit as it will not bring much despair. I also believe, if there is a culprit on the loose, and another person tried to kill someone, Monokuma will interfere as well to keep the trial to 1 culprit at a time. So what will he do if someone tries to commit suicide?

Plus Monokuma's a sadist, suicide may just be an easy way out which is not fun to him. Thus there is also the possibility it's a murder.

Clues in this case as shown in my spoiler tag have more variety than the previous ones.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Solitaired

Clues in this case as shown in my spoiler tag have more variety than the previous ones.

Which you shouldn't have posted until after EP 9, since the investigation is not yet compltete. - And there is stuff included that will definitely be shown next episode.

[Solitaired]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Which you shouldn't have posted until after EP 9, since the investigation is not yet compltete. - And there is stuff included that will definitely be shown next episode.

As explained in the beginning of this thread, next episode will just be like episode 7 where they carried on with the latter half of the investigations and start the trial immediately. This is like going on a ride, watching the plot unravels on its own where the characters just do their own deductions in front of you and the culprit is just naturally exposed. So for those who are serious to do some deductions on their own, they can choose to look into the evidences beforehand. There are extra plot lines now with regards to the school, so the anime staff cannot keep to their usual pattern of first episode case+investigation, full second episode trial.

For those who prefer to see the first 5-10 minutes of episode 9, pause the video and spend hours or days to do their own deductions before continuing with the episode, they can just ignore my posts.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Solitaired

As explained in the beginning of this thread, next episode will just be like episode 7 where they carried on with the latter half of the investigations and start the trial immediately. This is like going on a ride, watching the plot unravels on its own where the characters just do their own deductions in front of you and the culprit is just naturally exposed. So for those who are serious to do some deductions on their own, they can choose to look into the evidences beforehand. There are extra plot lines now with regards to the school, so the anime staff cannot keep to their usual pattern of first episode case+investigation, full second episode trial.

You put stuff in there though which they HAVE to show next episode, namely before the trial starts, and definitely will show too . - 5 Minutes are enough for that stuff.
The only important thing we can say is missing thus far is Kirigiri's explaination of closed room murders.
Point is revealing clues prematurely does exactly the opposite of what you intend, because people who seriously want to think about it will now look at them differently than they would have if not offered before.
Characters stating their own deductions is btw part of the mystery genre - its on to the viewer which ones of them they should trust and which ones not.

[Ledgem]

Interesting episode, but there are some things that don't really make sense to me. I don't know if they'll be explained later or if they just represent weaknesses in the plot.

Regarding Sakura as the mole, and fighting back. She didn't know anything extra, and her only orders were to disrupt the peace with a murder if necessary. That none of the characters seem interested in knowing more about this seems odd... but then Sakura fighting back? She already saw what happened to Junko, and she knows that destroying one Monokuma won't do anything. So what was the point of her fighting against Monokuma?

Now that we're down to six survivors, the end game seems a bit weird. The trial will result in another death, bringing us to five. Another murder and trail would bring us to three. Even if two people are killed, we'd be brought to two. Clearly you can't continue the format of murdering and then having a trial, because it would be obvious who did it. I'm guessing Monokuma will announce a free-for-all at that point.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

Regarding Sakura as the mole, and fighting back. She didn't know anything extra, and her only orders were to disrupt the peace with a murder if necessary. That none of the characters seem interested in knowing more about this seems odd... but then Sakura fighting back? She already saw what happened to Junko, and she knows that destroying one Monokuma won't do anything. So what was the point of her fighting against Monokuma?

Well, her resolve is apparently strong enough that she's willing to take any kind of risk.

Also, it's a bit vague, but I believe it's implied that Monokuma tried to kill her but failed. Opting to reveal her secret instead.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

Regarding Sakura as the mole, and fighting back. She didn't know anything extra, and her only orders were to disrupt the peace with a murder if necessary. That none of the characters seem interested in knowing more about this seems odd... but then Sakura fighting back? She already saw what happened to Junko, and she knows that destroying one Monokuma won't do anything. So what was the point of her fighting against Monokuma?

1) Everyone heard about why Sakura had to obey Monokuma, but past that it doesn't change anything for them.

2) Unlike Junko, Sakura is unlikely to die easily, even by the hands of Monokuma (although it is possible he spared her exactly because it could contribute to the mutual killing objective).
Basically, from what you can deduce from Sakura's personality and characterization, fighting back is the very proof she is no longer Monokuma's lackey, and that she is not afraid to die.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

Now that we're down to six survivors, the end game seems a bit weird. The trial will result in another death, bringing us to five. Another murder and trail would bring us to three. Even if two people are killed, we'd be brought to two. Clearly you can't continue the format of murdering and then having a trial, because it would be obvious who did it. I'm guessing Monokuma will announce a free-for-all at that point.

Well, if Sakura did commit suicide, then maybe nobody dies next week.

That would still leave us with six. Which can easily become 4 (one killing, killer gets executed).

If one of the 4 gets killed, then we are left with 3. I could see a tense situation where Makoto knows he's not the killer, and has to choose between the remaining 2 who are each trying to convince him that the other one is the killer. The one problem I see here is if two of the final three are Makoto and Kirigiri, then it would be a little bit obvious that Makoto will not find Kirigiri guilty and that the other person remaining is indeed the killer.

At most, we have two trials left (not counting next week's). It's possible the plot could go into a free-for-all and not whittle everything down as I've speculated above, though.

[Sute443]

Don't forget that there's still the 16th student to deal with. I expect they'll make a move and change the formula once the number of regulars is whittled down enough (either after this trial or the next, probably).

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Sute443

Don't forget that there's still the 16th student to deal with. I expect they'll make a move and change the formula once the number of regulars is whittled down enough (either after this trial or the next, probably).

Good point.

Here's a question I'd like to get everybody's take on: Of the characters remaining, who do you most want to survive?

[Quol]

Most would be Naegi followed by Kirigiri.

Least would be Fukawa (if you consider genocider seperate since I like genocider) followed by Togami

Heh...my most favorite pair with least

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

Now that we're down to six survivors, the end game seems a bit weird. The trial will result in another death, bringing us to five. Another murder and trail would bring us to three. Even if two people are killed, we'd be brought to two. Clearly you can't continue the format of murdering and then having a trial, because it would be obvious who did it. I'm guessing Monokuma will announce a free-for-all at that point.

I actually had some thoughts about this at the beginning of the story and I concluded that the number of participants had to be an even number from start to work until the very end, which made me conclude that Monokuma had planned to make an example out of the 15 participants from the very beginning to get the right number... but that was before I knew of the 16th person and the possibility to make two victims. Or it could be that the 16th person is a wild card precisely for this reason.

Anyway my reasoning was based on the fact that if three people are left after a trial, the next murder case would reach a stalemate between the last culprit and the last survivor, not really satisfying. The trial wouldn't even be one, there would be just two people accusing each others.

By the way, was it ever specified if the vote of the culprit counts?

However if four are left, supposing the culprit would only kill one, a trial with three people can still work, the two remaining survivors will still doubt and argue.

Now when two are left Monokuma could play the ultimate card, the ultimate incentive: "The first who kills the other automatically wins", because, as per rules, there wouldn't be anyone left alive to "know" about the murder.

And perhaps this scenario is exactly what Togami is waiting for, since he clearly isn't planning to spend the rest of his life inside that school.

Though the fact that a culprit can kill two people kinda jeopardizes the whole system. Well perhaps Monokuma assumes that one wouldn't be so irrational to kill two when 4 are left.
Moreover the automatic victory scenario can work if there are 3 people left.

[jeroz]

I do wonder what type of new incentive monokuma will throw out though, one that will bring new motivation for them to keep on killing each other