[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[m0h]

Than the simple answer to everything would be asking to Maria "who was the vessel of Beatrice?" ?

[Renall]

I think she's smart enough not to answer that. The better person to ask would be Nanjo, since Maria curiously mentions him and he's the easiest of the three elderly folks to pressure.

[chounokoe]

Originally Posted by Oliver

Me neither, just so you know. But that doesn't stop me from being able to compute 2³² in my head, although it's an exercise I wouldn't like to repeat, as it's quite taxing on short term memory.

That's quite impressive. 4 years after my last lesson I'm happy that I can still do my taxes without having to resort to to many used of a calculator, though on the other hand I can tell you an outline of the English, American and Japanese literary history from memory...as well as Japanese history.
Some things are just discarded along the way to make room for others, but let's drop this point.

Episode 6 gives a strict "17" rather than "no more than 17". Erika says "18th". 17 base11=18 base10 but there are no other pairs of number bases which can produce the same result.

Okay that point goes to you, but I still have my personal doubts because I don't see it properly foreshadowed, even though Kinzo really does give the 6x9=42 equation in Episode 2. Do you mind trying to explain how that equation works?

Which basically means that either you wire every one of the presumed 600 torpedo warheads (or other completed munitions) together, or only a fraction of them will actually detonate, scattering the rest across the island. That would fail to produce the promised 1km crater

If we follow what was said in Episode 7, we might have to assume that we are just dealing with explosive material of some kind and not fully produced warheads. I don't know if such things were ever stored in such bases, but if Yasu said it was that with which she blew up the Yashiro at the cliff, I highly assume that she did neither take apart a functional warhead to get at a part of the explosives, nor did she carry a whole warhead all the way to the cliffs.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by chounokoe

Okay that point goes to you, but I still have my personal doubts because I don't see it properly foreshadowed, even though Kinzo really does give the 6x9=42 equation in Episode 2. Do you mind trying to explain how that equation works?

6x9=54, that is, the number "fifty four". Notice that both 6 and 9 are single digits and mean the same regardless of whether base 10 or base 13 is used. Let us write the result in base 13, which, in addition to the usual 0-9 digits of the usual decimal introduces three extra digits. The extra digits, for lack of any special number-like glyph, are usually expressed as letters when using bases higher than 10, so in base 13, these will be letters a, b and c. The most common non-decimal system in use by humans is hexadecimal which goes up to f. Certain very common applications in computing, like email attachments, widely use base 64, which employs all the letters of the alphabet both in high and low case to record the extra digits... but I digress.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, a, b, c, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 1a, 1b, 1c, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 2a, 2b, 2c, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 3a, 3b, 3c, 40, 41, 42.

42 looks like the usual decimal number, because it does not happen to include those extra digits in it, which would instantly give away that you're not dealing with a decimal system, which is the essence of the trick. In base 11, there is only one extra digit - a. Counting to 18 in base 11 we get:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, a, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17.

18 decimal = 17 in base 11.

Originally Posted by chounokoe

I don't know if such things were ever stored in such bases, but if Yasu said it was that with which she blew up the Yashiro at the cliff, I highly assume that she did neither take apart a functional warhead to get at a part of the explosives, nor did she carry a whole warhead all the way to the cliffs.

Explosive materials are not stored in stockpiles in this fashion precisely for the reason they're so much easier to cause an accident with. A deliberate demolition charge of such mass is no problem. But then there's no actual munitions anywhere on the base, and the text seems to explicitly say there are.

[Helmet-kun]

Originally Posted by Will Wright

Dine's 16th even encourages the lack of non-plot relevant descriptions!

It really is something to consider.

Dine's 16th was broken the moment R07 decided to describe the Kinzo's drink in the very first episode.

...Unless it was Absinthe. Then that would explain why Kinzo was...Kinzo.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by Helmet-kun

Dine's 16th was broken the moment R07 decided to describe the Kinzo's drink in the very first episode.

...Unless it was Absinthe. Then that would explain why Kinzo was...Kinzo.

Um...the thing is it was Absinthe .The narration even references to wormwood ,which you need to prepare it, and calls it the green fairy, which indicates that is in fact what he's drinking.

[Helmet-kun]

Originally Posted by Judoh

Um...the thing is it was Absinthe .The narration even references to wormwood ,which you need to prepare it, and calls it the green fairy, which indicates that is in fact what he's drinking.

Where? From what I'm reading (which is at the very beginning, yet again), it doesn't say any of those things...

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by Helmet-kun

Where? From what I'm reading (which is at the very beginning, yet again), it doesn't say any of those things...

It's a little later I think...

"They do not care about me!!`What manner of men is everyone then, trying to drag me out of here!!??` Very well, kill them! Dismember them, make them into firewood, feed them to the witch's hearth!! Put a pot in that hearth and boil wormwood! Force the imbeciles who dare try to lure me out of here to drink the broth of the Apocalypse! I will soak their dregs in liquor! Aah, Genji, where are you!? Call for Genji!! Have my demonic absinthe prepared! The whispering of the green fairy reaches me no longer!! Aah, Genji, where are you?! Call for GenjiiIii!!!"

[Nontype]

Calling it now - In the last episode, Mystery will be tied to Fantasy by a Carnacki-style detective.

[Used Can]

I'm still calling for a Burning Court end.

[Helmet-kun]

I'm voting for the 'Battler is Incompetent' end.

[Renall]

Perhaps an Inspector Closeau style investigation where Battler leverages his in-red-affirmed incompetence to accidentally solve the crime? Hey, if you got it, might as well use it. Call it Bungler's Authority.

[immblueversion]

I THINK I'VE FIGURED IT OUT

Spoiler for News of importance:

Claire's name (クレル・ヴォーブ・ベルナルドゥス, Kureru Vōbu Berunarudusu) MIGHT be a reference to Bernard of Clairvaux (クレルヴォーのベルナルドゥス Kureruvō no Berunarudusu).

CLAIRE'S NAME MAY BE CLAIR VAUX BERNARD(US).

SPREAD THE WORD.

[Klashikari]

For all it is worth, people will call her "claire" for convenience / habit sake anyway, which isn't exactly a problem I guess.
It isn't like people knows who Bernard de Clairveaux is (heck, I'm not sure if more than half of the fanbase figured out about the divine comedy reference before episode 5).

[Used Can]

If you think about it: Dante was guided in Hell by Vergil, then in Heaven by Beatrice, and was taken to the Lord by Bernard.

We have characters to represent all of these, even the Lord, if you think about it.

[Oliver]

I want one to represent Peter Abelard then.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

For all it is worth, people will call her "claire" for convenience / habit sake anyway, which isn't exactly a problem I guess.
It isn't like people knows who Bernard de Clairveaux is (heck, I'm not sure if more than half of the fanbase figured out about the divine comedy reference before episode 5).

How could they not? It's literally right there the whole time. Heck, that's the only Beatrice I even remember in literature.

[ErenselTheJester]

Originally Posted by Renall

How could they not? It's literally right there the whole time. Heck, that's the only Beatrice I even remember in literature.

Not exactly... Unless someone played Dante's Inferno and were able to get the referrences, the format of the story pretty much blinded the hints. I thought Beatrice was just named Beatrice by coincidence. I read the Divine Comedy beforehand, but I still was unable to connect the two.

[momobunny]

Wasn't it basically revealed in EP3 that Umineko was referencing Divine Comedy? I'm pretty sure Virgilia was a dead giveaway.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by momobunny

Wasn't it basically revealed in EP3 that Umineko was referencing Divine Comedy? I'm pretty sure Virgilia was a dead giveaway.

Earlier still with Beatrice and Purgatorio. Virgilia becomes a "slapped in the face with the reference" point, though.

I suppose most people's knowledge of the Divine Comedy is The Inferno and some guy named Dante, in which case they wouldn't catch the parts about Inferno/Purgatorio/Paradiso, Virgil, Bernard, or Beatrice. It doesn't exactly take more than fifteen seconds to Wikipedia though.