Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll

[Kite22]

Well a slower pace isn't always a good thing, that's part of the problem with some episodes, they go TO SLOW and really stretch certain points out for seemingly no purpose. I think 30 something episodes (maybe 40 but I think that's pushing it) would have worked fine for Umineko, well that and a decent director and studio. Does anyone know who makes the next episode previews? that person seems to have actually played Umineko and gotten everything since the previews are usually good even if the episodes themselves are terrible.

[momobunny]

Certain parts of the Umineko VN drag... and drag... and keep dragging.

Though I honestly think 2 or 3 arcs per season would've been better and could've been done the right way if the director knew how to pace a story like this. :3

[tcaz2]

Originally Posted by Maho Momo

Certain parts of the Umineko VN drag... and drag... and keep dragging.

Though I honestly think 2 or 3 arcs per season would've been better and could've been done the right way if the director knew how to pace a story like this. :3

I really don't think you can make a call about the pacing until the series is done. They should have waited and made it after the series was done or close to being done.

And I disagree with the VN dragging, there's really only one part it drags and that's the beginning of Episode 1.

[Arachanox]

Originally Posted by tcaz2

And I disagree with the VN dragging, there's really only one part it drags and that's the beginning of Episode 1.

Ange/Maria/Sakutaro scenes at the beginning of Episode 4 were becoming a bit tedious before they finally ended.

[MarthX]

I often hear people dislike EP2's beginning. The cheesy love between Shannon and George.

[tcaz2]

Originally Posted by Arachanox

Ange/Maria/Sakutaro scenes at the beginning of Episode 4 were becoming a bit tedious before they finally ended.

I've never understood why people say this dragged, because it is expertly paced. There's a difference between not finding something exciting/interesting and it 'dragging'.

It goes from one interesting point to the next with very little to just be exposition, and when there's too much exposition in a part of the story, it breaks it up with a Meta-World scene or a 1998 Ange investigation, respectively.

[chounokoe]

Originally Posted by tcaz2

I've never understood why people say this dragged, because it is expertly paced. There's a difference between not finding something exciting/interesting and it 'dragging'.

It goes from one interesting point to the next with very little to just be exposition, and when there's too much exposition in a part of the story, it breaks it up with a Meta-World scene or a 1998 Ange investigation, respectively.

I think that is pretty much based on opinion and how much a reader wants to spend on a certain part.
I also found some parts of Umineko close to dragging, because sometimes Ryukishi just can't let a scene go and keeps on describing, describing and there are points where he crosses the border to too much, for some people.

I didn't think it was as bad as Higurashi, where after a while the club games started to feel like they dominated 60-70% of the game for me...but Umineko had similar moments, for me for example the magical battles were always a big bore.

Because Ryukishi has such an elaborate writing style, people easily grow bored during the passages that don't interest them. While he is a great writer and I love his works, this I would say is his one serious weakpoint.

[Ttak]

I'm wondering... did any anime-only watcher noticed what's the magic Maria use to make her mother happy?

[momobunny]

Originally Posted by chounokoe

I think that is pretty much based on opinion and how much a reader wants to spend on a certain part.
I also found some parts of Umineko close to dragging, because sometimes Ryukishi just can't let a scene go and keeps on describing, describing and there are points where he crosses the border to too much, for some people.

I didn't think it was as bad as Higurashi, where after a while the club games started to feel like they dominated 60-70% of the game for me...but Umineko had similar moments, for me for example the magical battles were always a big bore.

Because Ryukishi has such an elaborate writing style, people easily grow bored during the passages that don't interest them. While he is a great writer and I love his works, this I would say is his one serious weakpoint.

I actually grew bored of the RonoveVSJessica, GaapVSGeorge, and dungeon escape scenes. At first I really liked those scenes... then I had to keep reading... and reading. Like you said, it depends on the reader. I personally don't really like when action scenes have to be filled with a bunch of details, it makes it feel like a slow read to me. ^^;

Some scenes that don't have much going on are also extremely long. I'll admit that he's a good author, but I just can't sit and read through a lot without getting bored no matter what the story is.
So yes, for me certain parts of Umineko dragged, and not all of them were in the beginning of EP1 and EP4.

Thing is, a lot of facts are given during these scenes. You learn more about the story and characters through small hints and cleverly inserted bits of dialogue here and there. Unfortunately I'm the kind of person who's just reading it for fun... not to figure everything out and make theories based on the information I've been given.

I found myself most interested in Bern scenes, Lambda scenes, the magical scenes in EP2, the magical battle between Beatrice and Virgilia, and a couple of other scenes. I loved those moments in the story, I've actually went back and reread those parts.

[Ronove]

Originally Posted by Ttak

I'm wondering... did any anime-only watcher noticed what's the magic Maria use to make her mother happy?

Hmm... not sure. The "White" Magic was turned into darker evil magic. I suppose there was none...

[chounokoe]

Originally Posted by Ronove

Hmm... not sure. The "White" Magic was turned into darker evil magic. I suppose there was none...

Well it actually depends on wether you know Japanese or how good the subs are.
I found the ones I watched with some friends rather lacking, because they ommited to show the real incantation in the subs....and most people only really keep in mind what tehy read when there are subs.

霞実：何々？大好きなママといつまでも仲良しで居られる魔法？！
Kasumi: What's this? The magic to live happy with mama forever after?!
エンジェ：辞めて！！そのページだけは・・・
Ange: STOP!! This page is...
霞実：凄く簡単じゃない？あたしだってすぐ覚えちゃう！う～う～！う~う～！アハハハ・・・
Kasumi: Isn't that simple? Even I can remember that! Uu Uu! Uu Uu! AHAHAHA---

I think the episode made it quite clear...I just posted it here so that people who may not have noticed it (or were led astray by subs) also see it.

[KanonTheFurniture]

You should probably write that out as 'uu uu'. If I didn't know already or couldn't read Japanese, I would be confused seeing it romanized as 'uh uh', which to me is the sound people make when they're confused ("uh, what's that?"). Just so it's a little clearer.

[AmyElizzabeth]

Maria believed that saying "Uu, uu!" was the magic word

[Meryujinu]

Originally Posted by Leinne

check 4chan, if ep 26 is bad, it's going to be the next tsukihime anime, even though higurashi was butchered worse it was more entertaining to watch

After Episode 24, they already claimed there is no such thing as Umineko anime.

And I fully agree.

As much as I loved adaptation of ep25, having grand finale rushed is just... depressing. Honestly, I don't know why Chiaki is STILL a director. She have done... 3 works so far if I remember. Higurashi, Umineko, and one season of some other anime.
And she screwed up all of them.

[Leinne]

Originally Posted by Meryujinu

After Episode 24, they already claimed there is no such thing as Umineko anime.

And I fully agree.

As much as I loved adaptation of ep25, having grand finale rushed is just... depressing. Honestly, I don't know why Chiaki is STILL a director. She have done... 3 works so far if I remember. Higurashi, Umineko, and one season of some other anime.
And she screwed up all of them.

THey're waiting to make it ''official''. I'm gonna have fun tomorrow evening (for me), RAGE threads are best threads

[Ttak]

Originally Posted by Leinne

THey're waiting to make it ''official''. I'm gonna have fun tomorrow evening (for me), RAGE threads are best threads

Delicious rage tears

Anyway, it seems there won't be a second season due to the low sales. So we have a (nearly 0%) chance to get a decent Studio with a decent director for it.

[TsundereCake]

Originally Posted by Meryujinu

Honestly, I don't know why Chiaki is STILL a director. She have done... 3 works so far if I remember. Higurashi, Umineko, and one season of some other anime.
And she screwed up all of them.

As I said on another thread, Junjou Romantica was a great adaptation in my opinion. I think Kon just isn't quite experienced enough for complicated stories like Umineko yet.

[Fishcaek-Chan]

Originally Posted by TsundereCake

As I said on another thread, Junjou Romantica was a great adaptation in my opinion. I think Kon just isn't quite experienced enough for complicated stories like Umineko yet.

I LOVED Junjou Romantica, the animation was amazing, and the story-line was fabulous~ I don't have much against them if you ask me, I may be baised concidering I haven't played the game at all, but isn't that what anime is for? In my opinion, anime from a series is alone in its own. The manga it's based/ the game it's based on, are totally difforent things and shouldn't be bundled up together in the same category.

[chounokoe]

Well but honestly everybody, 4chan is not really representative concerning how the Japanese audience's view on the Umineko anime is.
So far I only read some reviews on amazon and some blogs scattered over the net, sadly you can't get much information about a representative public view on something in Japan unless you really dig. But what I read so far most people like it, even those who read the VN, the biggest turn off concerning the DVDs is the rather high price in contrast to the rather low amount of extras you get, especially if you've read the VN and dont need that TIPs booklet.

I think it's still to early to actually decide wether or not a second season is coming.
Or has anybody so far found an entry anywhere where a staff member of Deen said they won't do it?

I know the public stance in the West is to resent the anime, because it's inferior, what I heard from Japan so far, people who like it see it as a natural result of adaption and rather like it.
So those anime-only watchers shouldn't be too scared about never getting to see a season 2, as long as nothing is official.

[KanonTheFurniture]

Originally Posted by Fishcaek-Chan

I don't have much against them if you ask me, I may be baised concidering I haven't played the game at all, but isn't that what anime is for? In my opinion, anime from a series is alone in its own. The manga it's based/ the game it's based on, are totally difforent things and shouldn't be bundled up together in the same category.

But when the adaptation is so bad that it can't properly convey the original mood, then it fails as both a standalone and an adaptation. And that's how it's been with this series. Okay, I never played the Higurashi VN, but I and many others still enjoyed it. In fact, I think a large percentage of us who are now fans of Umineko got into it BECAUSE we enjoyed its predecessor so much. But Umineko is different. It has a lot more characters, for starters, and elements like red text and other such things that provide important clues to solving the mystery are all messed up. It's sloppily thrown together and isn't even getting by on the merits that Higurashi did.

In my opinion, the Higurashi Anime was great, even if the mystery was greatly over-simplified...but even simplified, it carried a lot of great things. It's like DEEN decided they did well enough on that, though, that they thought they could pull the same stunts with Umineko, which has a decidedly deeper storyline and more characters...Ryukishi has stepped up his game for this series, but DEEN has not stepped up to meet him there. Basically, imagine watching this series without this forum to aid you and answer your questions/provide you spoilers. Would Anime-only fans be able to understand half of what's going on without having to go online and find the answers to this and that from those who played the VN? I sincerely doubt it, considering how often I hear the same questions asked around this board.

When I watched Higurashi I think I was only ever truly lost on something plot-significant once...the rest, even if greatly diluted, I was able to figure out on my own. If the viewer can't do that, then it fails as a standalone Anime IMO. If you didn't play the VN, there is a lot you won't understand...and as we can all plainly see, this Anime also falls flat when it comes to appealing to VN readers. Poor animation, flawed music direction, and many fan-favorite scenes snipped or changed so much that they may as well have been...the Anime has failed to appease EITHER crowd, which is why their DVD's aren't selling. VN players are dissatisfied, and they have the VN. They don't need to spend precious money on the DVD's. Anime-only watchers may be enjoying this run, but will they care enough to own the series on DVD, unless they're a hardcore collector? That's the point we're at now, and that's why this Anime has failed both objectives.

I understand a lot of Anime-only viewers on this board are enjoying Umineko. A lot of VN players are, too, or at least have enjoyed some key parts of it (I myself thoroughly enjoyed all of EP3, and found the beginning of EP4 to be more engaging than the VN with those horribly draggy Ange scenes). But it's not enough to leave a lasting impression on either crowd the way Higurashi did. Really, as I said - imagine yourself being an Anime-only viewer and unable to seek out your answers to this and that on these forums, or the web in general. Would you honestly be able to understand what's going on without those hints and answers? If the answer is no, then that's the proof of it right there. The Anime has failed to do its job as a stand-alone OR as an adaptation.

I agree that in a lot of cases, an Anime is an Anime and should be judged on its own, and not on the source material. That's why since I started reviewing these episodes I've tried to be as unbiased as possible, but since 23, I've lost my faith in this series having anything short of a trainwreck for an ending. Serves DEEN right if their DVD's aren't selling. Maybe they'll learn. They won't try to say 'lol everyone loved Higurashi let's try that again it'll totally work man', and realize they can't get by without even A LITTLE effort. I'll be glad if there's no season 2. Not if this would be its fate. And hey, if Anime-only fans are devastated by not getting a second season, maybe they'll check out the source material to find out how it all ends. It's for the best if you ask me. And I really, REALLY hope that DEEN has learned from this whole mess.

[/KtF really has a textwall problem]