(L+CR) Golden Time

[ellessarr]

Originally Posted by kaigan

imho, you are giving the old self too much credit. none of those things involved external power or changing or manipulating the physical environment or even initiating contact to the material world. the "ghost" is helpless, frustrated, and good-for-nothing consciousness. that's why he whines, curses, and lately cries alot. he exists only inside banri's head. it's all in the mind. he has no access to the divine. and when exactly did he possess and injure himself? is that injury attributed to him also? isn't that a clear slip or a deliberate attempt to injure his current self?

many episodes we see ghost banri talking throught current banri mouth when he really tried hard to take control:
episode 8 when he say who he want go back in time to linda near the end
episode 9 in the end ghost banri get in control of the body while current banri was sleep and tried to walk but due to him not have a good control/balance he ending falling and injuring banri on chin and many others times, ghost banri is a part of banri, a lost part who ended take form of a split personality where when he is right pressed he can influence current banri, making him say things who he dont want to say or do things who he dont want to do like not cut the picture, the anime show this.

again i'm not saying who he is true a ghost and possessing banri but a second consciousness or personality who sometimes can come out to torment current banri and this is a real disorder of the mind not supernatural, have split personality or multipersonality or "hear voices" or does things who you normally not does but because something inside your head or body forced is real.

Originally Posted by kaigan

the wish the "ghost" desires the most did not happen. or more correctly, it will never happen in his current state. if he wish for something else and if it somewhat happen (in any degree by the grace of a god or the devil who knows) it is well because of him? the misfortunes for the most part are man-made and could have been prevented. banri and kouko missing the designated spot could have been prevented if banri checked his phone timely. 2d should checked the a/c working properly before committing the vehicle for the outing, they planned this for a long time ago. chinami could have been reached if she was considerate enough to wait on a more conspicuous place. the traffic if they started early and avoided the aforementioned issues. this involved a lot of people and no way he could have had a hand on this. did he make the weather rain? how about the bright sunshine after and have the whole beach for themselves?

and what about the driving incident? did he wish for this? why is kouko driving? and why does she have a license? what were her intentions? what time was it? how far are they from home? how long does it take to drive back?

they engaged in a highly physical activity for half the day at least. able, physically fit and muscular men like 2d-kun and mitsuo grew tired and sleepy but kouko still has enough stamina to drive? there's nothing supernatural here. accidents happen but this one could have been easily prevented. the prevention lies all in their hands. they have the mortal bodies and physical means and necessary skills to prevent it. there's no way a "ghost" that has nothing can lord over them.

i thing you dont get my point, i'm not saying who ghost banri have powers to change the weather or control the trafic, but a CURSE, if you watched enough animes or movies about curses, or read about curses,t heir can do that things even if a curse is just folklore / mythology, but for peoples who believe on them or for what we know about them, their can do that things , if i curse you with missfortune this means who you gonna have exactly this, most of you plains gonna fail, you gonna accidently hurt yourself, your gonna lose peoples and things like that because this is a "CURSE" and this is how curses works

this episode was to highlight exactly how the supposedly curse who ghost banri place in current banri is working even if in real dont exist any curse and everything was just a coincidence, but also was a double standard for peoples who believe in curse this can be the curse for peoples who dont believe it was just coincidence

this episode show them have too much troubles to go to a simple trip, where for exemple the rain was near impossible to happen since the meteorology told who not gonna rain or the chance of this happen is near 0.

i'm just explain how a CURSE can work, if you dont believe in curses and supernatural and thing who everything was just coincidence fine it's up to you, i also dont believe but, this dont means who we must completly ignore/avoid this fact/possibility since the writer itself put this in the plot and make the things very ambiguous.

[omimon]

Wow the last 3 minutes of the episode escalated fast.

[AmeNoJaku]

Originally Posted by omimon

Wow the last 3 minutes of the episode escalated fast.

Nope, the writing failed again

Nevertheless, it works as an accidental parody

[kaigan]

Does somebody need a justification for having a license?

of course. that is a state-issued document certifying you are a competent and capable operator of a machine. with great power comes great responsibility. you are driving a car with passengers - with other lives. the state believes in you that you can do it safely, responsibly, and skillfully protecting yourself and others at all times. i hope she got it through proper means though and not using her family's influence. in any case, her skill is not being questioned here. banri commends she's a good driver, i see no problem.

Kouko's intentions? She didn't have any.

you could say so or it appears to be. but there could be also more than just wanting to help out. surely, she cares for 2d-kun's condition too, but that's all? could she possibly trying to make a positive impression to banri? that's she's trying to be the best and perfect girlfriend? first, that she could cook, then drive too? that she can drive a car skillfully and do what most men do too? isn't that possible? or what was their conversation about before she fell asleep? it was about going to barcelona, right? was she looking for a way not to go to that family trip? and there could others. maybe the next episode will shed more light on this later.

[KagaKoko]

Originally Posted by omimon

Wow the last 3 minutes of the episode escalated fast.

Hmmm it sure did, my only gripe is why Banri started to fall asleep considering they were talking a lot haha. I confess my love for you *Snores*

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by kaigan

you could say so or it appears to be. but there could be also more than just wanting to help out. surely, she cares for 2d-kun's condition too, but that's all? could she possibly trying to make a positive impression to banri?

I think you are overfocusing on the negative. When Kouko tries to impress Banri it's pretty easy to see. I have noted before, for quite some time now Kouko's been more and more natural around Banri and the others. Sure there was this cooking meltdown, but as I mentioned, when Kouko tries to impress she is easily readable as she's acting very much unnatural. In this situation she was anything but. The only knock is perhaps that she was overconfident in her abilities, but that's something that's true for most young people.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by KagaKoko

Hmmm it sure did, my only gripe is why Banri started to fall asleep considering they were talking a lot haha. I confess my love for you *Snores*

It's not like we were shown things in real time. My impression was that they had stopped talking for at least a few minutes by that point, which can easily be enough to knock someone out if they're tired enough.

Originally Posted by SigUp

The only knock is perhaps that she was overconfident in her abilities, but that's something that's true for most young people.

I don't know, she seemed pretty skilled to me. They were on a winding road, and yet they didn't manage to crash for a decent period of time after she fell asleep. That takes some mad skill.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by GDB

I don't know, she seemed pretty skilled to me. They were on a winding road, and yet they didn't manage to crash for a decent period of time after she fell asleep. That takes some mad skill.

I wasn't questioning her driving ability. Only her judgement that she wouldn't fall asleep (or that she completely forgot about that aspect). But I'm not blaming her. I was quite stunned that they managed to keep on the road for quite some time after she fell asleep.

[kaigan]

again i'm not saying who he is true a ghost...

i also believe he's not a true ghost, like that aimless spirit of the dead, right? for convenience i guess we can call him a ghost but not really of that sort. but those incidents you cited still only involve banri - no other than himself. what i said before was to show that he has no godly powers, controlling nature, or hypnotizing kouko and others. he can't be held responsible for something beyond his reach. he's an annoyance to himself - a product of conflicting feelings but he cannot summon god or yield the force of nature.

but a CURSE

people seemed to overlook the human factor. the unfortunate events that followed in this episode seemed to be solely the ghost's doing. but those are not unexplained nor uncanny. nothing mysterious. it's an accident afterall. the ghost's admitted that's not he wanted because that will erase his own existence. the ghost said he'll make himself 'unhappy'. what does that mean? finishing himself off? the curse is pestering him, that annoying little voice inside his head. one was that puny attempt kouko riding in a carriage with another man. the rain, weather, and everything are all for dramatic effect i believe to show his gloomy feelings. but he didn't directly caused that.

I think you are overfocusing on the negative.

since the majority are thoroughly convinced that it's the ghost's responsibly for the driving incident i humbly exhausting other possible explanations. in a more mundane and believable real-world way. nothing can be too certain at this point. even what i've written are also merely speculations. but they are also based from prior events. i believe she's trying her best and making a good impression at all times or whenever the opportunity presents itself. she can't rest when she's not absolutely sure of banri's loyalty. remember her look when banri caught eye of mitsuo and linda? is that a look of absolute confidence on her boyfriend? they even abandon the original plan to tail mitsuo. you caught the cooking "unnatural" because it meant to be comical. but she explained her intentions later. and even want to study further. she's trying her best. so the driving is an exception absolutely free from such intent?

The only knock is perhaps that she was overconfident in her abilities, but that's something that's true for most young people.

and she could have prevented the accident. and banri too, if he didn't fall asleep and keep talking. and 2d-kun too, if he didn't handover the keys to kouko. or if everyone else decided to stay the night out in a hostel. it's not a supernatural-induced disaster. it's all man-made. accidents do happen.

[Kakurin]

I never said their accident was caused by Ghost Banri.

[kaigan]

I never said their accident was caused by Ghost Banri.

right. apologies then. i'll just add that my posts and reaction stem from http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...36#post4987136 a page back in response to the general sentiment that the accident was ghost banri's doing. the rest that followed are supporting statements as some fellow members find some of my ideas questionable. that's why i believe it's an accident. man-made, preventable and not supernatural of sorts.

[ellessarr]

Originally Posted by kaigan

i also believe he's not a true ghost, like that aimless spirit of the dead, right? for convenience i guess we can call him a ghost but not really of that sort. but those incidents you cited still only involve banri - no other than himself. what i said before was to show that he has no godly powers, controlling nature, or hypnotizing kouko and others. he can't be held responsible for something beyond his reach. he's an annoyance to himself - a product of conflicting feelings but he cannot summon god or yield the force of nature.

not really rewatch anime some of the "incidents" also have linda with him, her presence make ghost banri come out more easy than when he is alone, ghost banri dont have "supernatural powers" or neither a god, he is just part of banri, he really can't control weather and cause disasters or things like that but again.

and ghost banri can influence the peoples around him physically or interact with then through banri this was showed, let's say if one day he get full control over banri and goes crazy he can break with koko bad mounth her or doing anything he can't do supernatural things but anything humanly possible he can do in the moment who he take control over the body, he not really a ghost bu this dont means who he can't "take control and do things who he want".

CURSES can do taht, the focus of this episode was very clear about the ambiguity of what happen could be just coincidence or really a curse,

to CURSE someone you dont need have "powers", you just need do it with all your passion intention and specially hate(for peoples who believe on this), indeed ghost banri itself is doing nothing just than watching, what is working(if you believe or want follow this path) is the curse itself, since ghost banri cursed himself(his other side) this also means who he can be hurt and curses are really dangers their can be just annoying or deadly and im his case the last. because "hunhappy" can be attained throught death too, this is the reason he also ask for sorry.

people seemed to overlook the human factor. the unfortunate events that followed in this episode seemed to be solely the ghost's doing. but those are not unexplained nor uncanny. nothing mysterious. it's an accident afterall. the ghost's admitted that's not he wanted because that will erase his own existence. the ghost said he'll make himself 'unhappy'. what does that mean? finishing himself off? the curse is pestering him, that annoying little voice inside his head. one was that puny attempt kouko riding in a carriage with another man. the rain, weather, and everything are all for dramatic effect i believe to show his gloomy feelings. but he didn't directly caused that.

them you ae saying who ghost banri is a selfish coward, who dont care for his friends too and if him not was also inside the car he could let everyone die(if him still had a chance to save them) and this not what i get, ghost banri was very clear about what he was ask for sorry, because after supposed curse his otherself he not waited current banri luck go so bad to the point of being deadly, he just wanted banri dont have any happy moments this is the problem "curses" are unpredictable you can't really be sure about what can happen

and again ghost banri feel gult not just because of his life but everyone inside the car life,, this is what he told he "dont wanted this" we see he say "someone save us"(not save me only) this is his gult for what his asked

if you dont believe in curses(i also dont believe) but japaneses in general believe in this their believe in supernatural, curses, ghosts and things like that their are in general superstitious this is why many mangas have supernatural element is part of their culture, even if this not was really a curse, ghost banri believed who was indeed his curse and his fault what happened

since the majority are thoroughly convinced that it's the ghost's responsibly for the driving incident i humbly exhausting other possible explanations. in a more mundane and believable real-world way. nothing can be too certain at this point. even what i've written are also merely speculations. but they are also based from prior events. i believe she's trying her best and making a good impression at all times or whenever the opportunity presents itself. she can't rest when she's not absolutely sure of banri's loyalty. remember her look when banri caught eye of mitsuo and linda? is that a look of absolute confidence on her boyfriend? they even abandon the original plan to tail mitsuo. you caught the cooking "unnatural" because it meant to be comical. but she explained her intentions later. and even want to study further. she's trying her best. so the driving is an exception absolutely free from such intent?


and she could have prevented the accident. and banri too, if he didn't fall asleep and keep talking. and 2d-kun too, if he didn't handover the keys to kouko. or if everyone else decided to stay the night out in a hostel. it's not a supernatural-induced disaster. it's all man-made. accidents do happen.

that things also can be called "fate" destiny and others things if you believe is just a matter

peoples blaming him because first he blame himself first, second because 2 or 3 chapters ago we see him cursing himself and all the bad luck started to pop-up out of nowhere, with unknow rains, peoples suddenly being too much busy for interact, plains being ruined and things like that, this really make the things very weird towards him

ghost banri itself is not the only doing all the bad things but is his fault to wish for that things happen, that is this idea behind this episode, you liking or no

again this dont means who maybe true was his fault and curses exist is more how you believe or look, if you just want with logic fine but if you want look as supernatural also fine the writer is providing both of them for peoples who like one or both.

Originally Posted by kaigan

right. apologies then. i'll just add that my posts and reaction stem from http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...36#post4987136 a page back in response to the general sentiment that the accident was ghost banri's doing. the rest that followed are supporting statements as some fellow members find some of my ideas questionable. that's why i believe it's an accident. man-made, preventable and not supernatural of sorts.

and what the problem??? is his opnion if he want he can blame ghost banri cuz really the things looks too much "coincidence" to not being his indirect influence.

in the end what is matter is how you look at the things and your personal opnion about.

[KagaKoko]

There is a bit to much hate in regards to Ghost Banri to be honest, I myself don't really like him but I feel though that he is now starting to show a different side then the "curse you" concept. If he was going to be like that all the way through I would have really started to complain.

[ellessarr]

Originally Posted by KagaKoko

There is a bit to much hate in regards to Ghost Banri to be honest, I myself don't really like him but I feel though that he is now starting to show a different side then the "curse you" concept. If he was going to be like that all the way through I would have really started to complain.

but this is the problem with curses their are unpredictable, ghost banri was not waiting who the things gonna turn like that from just little troblesomes to a really dangerous situation where everyone was in danger, he was waiting banri only have minor problems this is why he regret what he did.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by ellessarr

but this is the problem with curses their are unpredictable, ghost banri was not waiting who the things gonna turn like that from just little troblesomes to a really dangerous situation where everyone was in danger, he was waiting banri only have minor problems this is why he regret what he did.

I don't think minor problems was all he was envisioning. He wanted Banri's life to be a living hell. Focus on the living part of course . After all if Banri dies they both go to the other side and he can stalk Linda anymore . But really he wanted Banri's life to suck, just not die.

Agree things went beyond what he would have wanted. Unfortunately there was no check box system to decide exactly what he wanted to have happen.

[Frontier]

Yeah, Ghost Banri even said that he never wanted the "curse" he brought upon Banri to go that far. He wanted Banri to be unhappy and suffering over his "rejection" of Linda, but he never wanted him or anyone else dead. Not that I think he's really responsible for all of Banri's bad luck, but he certainly believes he is at least .

Kouko having a drivers license was a bit of a surprise, considering how she's always taken a Taxi to Banri's apartment. I would think, with her family's wealth, she'd have enough money to purchase her own car. But, this being Kouko, I can see her feeling that her money is better spent on clothes, beauty products, and dates with Banri than on a car. She'd probably have difficulty finding a car that's as stylish as she is anyways .

2D-Kun. Hates the annoying aspects of the 3D World but can't help but be attracted to 3D women. Not that I can really blame him, considering the fact that he's hanging around a girl like Kouko Kaga .

I have to admit, while I was a little disappointed that the girls didn't actually go with the school swimsuits, I can certainly live with what they ultimately went with. While it doesn't quite compare to what she wore in the last episode, I thought Kouko looked really great in that blue bikini. And I think Chinami's black one-piece was ten times better than her swimsuit from the last episode. So, all in all, good choice in swimsuits ladies .

It seems Mitsuo and Kouko are on good terms now, or are at least more polite towards each other. This episode is the first time the two haven't really gone at each other in any way. That shows a lot of growth on Kouko's part, I think. As for Mitsuo and Chinami, it seems like he's completely oblivious to the fact that she may have real feelings for him and the reason why she's being cold to him. I got the sense from his dialogue towards her that he doesn't see her in a romantic light now, so it'll be interesting to see how things continue on that front. I'm anxiously awaiting more details on what Mitsuo's exact relationship with Linda is.

It was good to see that, despite all the bad luck beforehand, the gang was able to make the most out of the beach trip and have some real fun. Slowly, but surely, Banri and Kouko are forging some great and lasting memories together as a couple, which is what Kouko's needs to help deal with her immense insecurities over how she measures up towards Linda and Banri's lost memories. And I'll concur with SigUp that the two were acting quite natural together, and Kouko's calling Banri an idiot for the first time shows that she's more comfortable saying how she feels without being afraid that Banri will reject her for it.

That last scene in the car was certainly tense. While Kouko's detractors both in-universe and out may be hard on her, I don't think anyone is truly as hard on Kouko as she is to herself. And with what happened in the car, the guilt is going to weigh heavily on her and could possibly undo all the good progress she's made so far. Not that I think she should blame herself, since all of them were tired and they probably would've fallen asleep on the wheel faster than she did. But I doubt Kouko sees it that way, and the preview already implies that she's having a pretty bad breakdown over it .

Banri's life flashing before his eyes, or to be more precise, the development of his love triangle, may have had an effect on Ghost Banri. It ending on Linda saying "Just push forward" leads me to believe that he'll be a bit more passive in the future and less as obsessed with getting together with Linda. At least that's what I hope happens.

With Kouko seemingly a nervous wreck, it looks like Banri's going to her house to see her and try and talk her out of it. And with Kouko's father in the preview, it seems he'll finally get to have a proper meeting with her parents as Kouko's boyfriend. I wonder, though, if Banri's even bothered to tell his parents about the fact that he has a girlfriend now? And with all this talk about Kouko's trip to Barcelona, I get the sense that eventually Banri's going to be forced to travel to Barcelona to chase after her.

[KagaKoko]

Originally Posted by Frontier

With Kouko seemingly a nervous wreck, it looks like Banri's going to her house to see her and try and talk her out of it. And with Kouko's father in the preview, it seems he'll finally get to have a proper meeting with her parents as Kouko's boyfriend. I wonder, though, if Banri's even bothered to tell his parents about the fact that he has a girlfriend now? And with all this talk about Kouko's trip to Barcelona, I get the sense that eventually Banri's going to be forced to travel to Barcelona to chase after her.

I really like the idea you have here and theory in regards to Barcelona. I mean Kouko's father isn't going to be to bothered with Banri. He would assume all blame onto her plus he has never had any dump him conversations with Kouko. In fact he says shes bad for the boy haha. I am really hoping for a Kouko x Banri but if it is a maybe return of Ghost Banri and he goes for Linda I'll deal with it and hope Kouko gets the happiness she needs

[ellessarr]

Originally Posted by Frontier

Yeah, Ghost Banri even said that he never wanted the "curse" he brought upon Banri to go that far. He wanted Banri to be unhappy and suffering over his "rejection" of Linda, but he never wanted him or anyone else dead. Not that I think he's really responsible for all of Banri's bad luck, but he certainly believes he is at least .

Kouko having a drivers license was a bit of a surprise, considering how she's always taken a Taxi to Banri's apartment. I would think, with her family's wealth, she'd have enough money to purchase her own car. But, this being Kouko, I can see her feeling that her money is better spent on clothes, beauty products, and dates with Banri than on a car. She'd probably have difficulty finding a car that's as stylish as she is anyways .

2D-Kun. Hates the annoying aspects of the 3D World but can't help but be attracted to 3D women. Not that I can really blame him, considering the fact that he's hanging around a girl like Kouko Kaga .

I have to admit, while I was a little disappointed that the girls didn't actually go with the school swimsuits, I can certainly live with what they ultimately went with. While it doesn't quite compare to what she wore in the last episode, I thought Kouko looked really great in that blue bikini. And I think Chinami's black one-piece was ten times better than her swimsuit from the last episode. So, all in all, good choice in swimsuits ladies .

It seems Mitsuo and Kouko are on good terms now, or are at least more polite towards each other. This episode is the first time the two haven't really gone at each other in any way. That shows a lot of growth on Kouko's part, I think. As for Mitsuo and Chinami, it seems like he's completely oblivious to the fact that she may have real feelings for him and the reason why she's being cold to him. I got the sense from his dialogue towards her that he doesn't see her in a romantic light now, so it'll be interesting to see how things continue on that front. I'm anxiously awaiting more details on what Mitsuo's exact relationship with Linda is.

It was good to see that, despite all the bad luck beforehand, the gang was able to make the most out of the beach trip and have some real fun. Slowly, but surely, Banri and Kouko are forging some great and lasting memories together as a couple, which is what Kouko's needs to help deal with her immense insecurities over how she measures up towards Linda and Banri's lost memories. And I'll concur with SigUp that the two were acting quite natural together, and Kouko's calling Banri an idiot for the first time shows that she's more comfortable saying how she feels without being afraid that Banri will reject her for it.

That last scene in the car was certainly tense. While Kouko's detractors both in-universe and out may be hard on her, I don't think anyone is truly as hard on Kouko as she is to herself. And with what happened in the car, the guilt is going to weigh heavily on her and could possibly undo all the good progress she's made so far. Not that I think she should blame herself, since all of them were tired and they probably would've fallen asleep on the wheel faster than she did. But I doubt Kouko sees it that way, and the preview already implies that she's having a pretty bad breakdown over it .

Banri's life flashing before his eyes, or to be more precise, the development of his love triangle, may have had an effect on Ghost Banri. It ending on Linda saying "Just push forward" leads me to believe that he'll be a bit more passive in the future and less as obsessed with getting together with Linda. At least that's what I hope happens.

With Kouko seemingly a nervous wreck, it looks like Banri's going to her house to see her and try and talk her out of it. And with Kouko's father in the preview, it seems he'll finally get to have a proper meeting with her parents as Kouko's boyfriend. I wonder, though, if Banri's even bothered to tell his parents about the fact that he has a girlfriend now? And with all this talk about Kouko's trip to Barcelona, I get the sense that eventually Banri's going to be forced to travel to Barcelona to chase after her.

yeah good post
about the bold part, is exactly this, like i told japanese are somehow a bit superstitious and obivous ghost banri believed who was his fault for what happened because of his curse who the things ended, even if was just a human fault but all the coincidences and how the things are happen as he wanted(all the bad luck) them he obvious believe who was his fault who he and his friends are in danger and he panicked and like @frontier told he se his life pass through his eyes and finally koko is start to catching him too, what is good because ofcourse in the end we know who gonna be the winner, this show is not about "who gonna win" but about the path, about how koko and banri gonna have their "happy ending".

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by kaigan

so the driving is an exception absolutely free from such intent?

Big difference, she didn't plan on driving. That was a spontaneous decision due to 2D being too tired. When she made that offer she didn't even look at Banri, after Banri asked her whether she was truly okay driving she just nodded and went straight to the car. If she had some intent to impress him, she surely would have said anything there. That's why I can't follow your reasoning here. Besides, she looked absolutely natural there. It is pretty obvious whenever she tries to impress somebody. In that case her whole tone and behaviour is different.

[KagaKoko]

Originally Posted by SigUp

Big difference, she didn't plan on driving. That was a spontaneous decision due to 2D being too tired. When she made that offer she didn't even look at Banri, after Banri asked her whether she was truly okay driving she just nodded and went straight to the car. If she had some intent to impress him, she surely would have said anything there. That's why I can't follow your reasoning here. Besides, she looked absolutely natural there. It is pretty obvious whenever she tries to impress somebody. In that case her whole tone and behaviour is different.

I couldn't put a post better then that I agree 100% with this, I don't see her impressing him at all. She just took it upon herself to do a task that the others weren't deemed fit to do (2D being tired)