(CR) Sousou no Frieren (Frieren: Beyond Journey's End)

[relentlessflame]

When I said last week that there must be a third test because too many people would otherwise have passed, I didn't think that would literally be the premise for Serie doing the third test herself, and that she'd just triage them instantly. It does go to show, though, that these tests are designed to weed most people out, and if the tests themselves don't do that, Serie will just do it herself. (And yeah, as others said, now I'm curious as to what the third test would have been if most of them would have died from it. And if that's the test, and they realize that needless loss of life is not ideal, then why have that test in the first place...? )

Serie not passing Frieren, when she admitted that Frieren is the reason so many got this far, is the epitome of petty. Not that I think Frieren particularly cared that much anyway, given she knew Fern would pass. It's especially petty, as others pointed out, given that Serie herself is clearly using the magic suppression, and even the field of flowers, spells that she criticizes Frieren for.

I kind of wonder now about those they didn't show failing. It seems weird, in terms of the sequence of things, to first cut some people off, then reveal the people we care most about, but leave these others unaddressed until next episode. I suppose one option is that the others will pass, and they'll just start the next episode with a "here are those who passed" scene, but even that seems a bit high to me. (I suppose they could do that and then have flashbacks for the others somehow.) I guess we'll see.

Here's to hoping next week's episode ends with an announcement of a second season and that they'll be back on the road again. In the end, I did like this arc well enough, but it still feels so far like a really long detour, and I'm not yet sure if any of the characters we met are going to be relevant in any of the rest of the plot after this or just forgotten (I guess we'll see). It fleshed out Frieren and Fern a bit more, and that ongoing character development (including the various flashbacks) is really what made it work for me. It still, though, basically has the sense that the author had this whole journey roughly planned, and then some editor came to them and said "slow down, this manga is way too successful to end so quickly!" so then they created this contrivance to introduce a whole lot more characters all of a sudden. Otherwise, they presumably would have introduced the characters more organically along the way. Like I said, though, it was still interesting, and I guess we'll see what they do with it going forward.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

It still, though, basically has the sense that the author had this whole journey roughly planned, and then some editor came to them and said "slow down, this manga is way too successful to end so quickly!" so then they created this contrivance to introduce a whole lot more characters all of a sudden. Otherwise, they presumably would have introduced the characters more organically along the way. Like I said, though, it was still interesting, and I guess we'll see what they do with it going forward.

Having read the manga, to me it feels like the author had very little planned. Probably the beginning and the end, and that's it. The fact it works so well despite it shows how talented he is, but sometimes it's REALLY obvious he came up with new concepts like a week before introducing them.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

When I said last week that there must be a third test because too many people would otherwise have passed, I didn't think that would literally be the premise for Serie doing the third test herself, and that she'd just triage them instantly. It does go to show, though, that these tests are designed to weed most people out, and if the tests themselves don't do that, Serie will just do it herself. (And yeah, as others said, now I'm curious as to what the third test would have been if most of them would have died from it. And if that's the test, and they realize that needless loss of life is not ideal, then why have that test in the first place...? )

Serie not passing Frieren, when she admitted that Frieren is the reason so many got this far, is the epitome of petty. Not that I think Frieren particularly cared that much anyway, given she knew Fern would pass. It's especially petty, as others pointed out, given that Serie herself is clearly using the magic suppression, and even the field of flowers, spells that she criticizes Frieren for.

I kind of wonder now about those they didn't show failing. It seems weird, in terms of the sequence of things, to first cut some people off, then reveal the people we care most about, but leave these others unaddressed until next episode. I suppose one option is that the others will pass, and they'll just start the next episode with a "here are those who passed" scene, but even that seems a bit high to me. (I suppose they could do that and then have flashbacks for the others somehow.) I guess we'll see.

Here's to hoping next week's episode ends with an announcement of a second season and that they'll be back on the road again. In the end, I did like this arc well enough, but it still feels so far like a really long detour, and I'm not yet sure if any of the characters we met are going to be relevant in any of the rest of the plot after this or just forgotten (I guess we'll see). It fleshed out Frieren and Fern a bit more, and that ongoing character development (including the various flashbacks) is really what made it work for me. It still, though, basically has the sense that the author had this whole journey roughly planned, and then some editor came to them and said "slow down, this manga is way too successful to end so quickly!" so then they created this contrivance to introduce a whole lot more characters all of a sudden. Otherwise, they presumably would have introduced the characters more organically along the way. Like I said, though, it was still interesting, and I guess we'll see what they do with it going forward.

I feel like the other test exists because Serie isn't willing to put in the effort once every three years to just determine pass/fail herself . I suppose for Serie that is like doing a test every couple days. Loss of life isn't ideal, but I suspect that Serie really doesn't want to waste time offering a spell to someone that isn't remotely worthy and there is pressure to keep the ranks elite. Weed out the truly weak early on in the tests and take the chance with those that have some potential. If they still fall short then they really weren't cut out for it...

I guess the direction they went was for the sake of good flow. Set up the test, then show how merciless Serie is going to be with characters that are "sure, that makes sense" and allow the episode to end strong with Frieren and Fern's results. Can pick it up next week with some more interesting candidates and then move towards the epilogue for this arc.

The odds are probably good for characters like Ubel, Land, Denken, etc, to pass, but probably will require a bit of time to explain why. At least that's what I expect. But we'll have to see.

As for the purpose of the arc, you never know. Could be right on that one. But I also wonder if there wasn't a desire to set some things up for the future. A lot of the characters we've met are probably heading North themselves. So having people that they can cross paths with in the future isn't a bad thing. Might also be the case that there is a larger narrative planned. Maybe not on the level with a new Demon King, but something big enough that a lot of capable characters will be needed to gather at the same time. So might as well insert prominent figures into the story now.

[Frontier]

I think this arc has been great for further world-building and putting Frieren's power level and motivation into perspective.

[scififan]

The qualification of class A magic users mean they can survive in the zone dominated by demons.

One of the most popular discussion of this episode is foot fetish and playing toes. The "licensed wizards" get themselves killed in the danger zone would be an embarrassment for the association.

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Another popular topic is eating a lot.

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[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

It still, though, basically has the sense that the author had this whole journey roughly planned, and then some editor came to them and said "slow down, this manga is way too successful to end so quickly!" so then they created this contrivance to introduce a whole lot more characters all of a sudden. Otherwise, they presumably would have introduced the characters more organically along the way. Like I said, though, it was still interesting, and I guess we'll see what they do with it going forward.

Considering this series loves its almost slice of life episodic content I think slowing down is the last thing the editor would've told him to do

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

As for the purpose of the arc, you never know. Could be right on that one. But I also wonder if there wasn't a desire to set some things up for the future. A lot of the characters we've met are probably heading North themselves. So having people that they can cross paths with in the future isn't a bad thing. Might also be the case that there is a larger narrative planned. Maybe not on the level with a new Demon King, but something big enough that a lot of capable characters will be needed to gather at the same time. So might as well insert prominent figures into the story now.

Yes, I am supposing that now that they did spend the time to introduce these people who can travel to the north, they might as well make use of them. But it just feels like... they didn't have to travel all the way to this one town, throw up a wall, and now it's like "introduce a flood of new characters!" I'll have to rewatch at some point to see how much foreshadowing they left about all this, but I certainly didn't pick up on much of it on first viewing if it was there.

I guess to begin with I thought the whole "no one can go further unless you can pass this test!" was kind of a non-serious premise to begin with. She is literally part of the party that took down the Demon King. Do you really think she can't get past some stupid wall? Are you really going to tell her with a straight face that she's unqualified? The whole thing felt like Frieren was humoring them all along. Of course, they setup a pattern of this with the previous town too, so it's not like it's out of character... but yeah, I guess it's fitting that it ends with Serie not passing Frieren anyway for petty/silly reasons.

Originally Posted by Frontier

I think this arc has been great for further world-building and putting Frieren's power level and motivation into perspective.

That is true. It definitely does flesh out how magic works in the world and I'm sure a lot of the things we've learned about that aspect will come into play in the future in some way. If nothing else, it puts into perspective what a powerhouse Fern has become that she goes to first-class in a single test-taking year, which is completely unheard of. In that sense, I guess it's good to give some context to what was, until now, a small party who seemed strong but you had no reference point.

Anyway, don't get me wrong - I did enjoy this arc, but I still can't help but feeling like it was a sharp turn in the road compared to the first half of the show. But yes, I can see how perhaps with this now done, it can open the door to a much broader story to be told going forward, and certainly it's got my interest to see where they go with it.

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Considering this series loves its almost slice of life episodic content I think slowing down is the last thing the editor would've told him to do

Well, point taken... But I think, despite "nothing happening," the actual journey itself seemed to be making good progress towards getting to the apparent destination. Of course, this didn't prevent them from arriving at the destination and this leading to yet another journey. But it was in that sense that it felt to me like it was moving along, and then they stopped. (Part of that is also the amount of time this arc took compared to everything else leading up to it, and that the story didn't very obviously seem to be heading up to it in particular.)

I guess, in RPG terms, it's like when the main story is progressing from town to town, with a few sidequests as you go, and then suddenly you arrive some a city and you're stuck there for 10 hours. If not for the little flashbacks, you might otherwise forget the reason why Frieren wants to go to the North in the first place. So now I'm curious about how they transition back to "Oh yeah, what were we doing again? It's been so long since we've been on the road..." (Of course, I fully expect that is literally how the next episode will end -- with them leaving the town to cross into the North, with some flashback to when the old party did the same. To be continued...)

Originally Posted by Kanon

Having read the manga, to me it feels like the author had very little planned. Probably the beginning and the end, and that's it. The fact it works so well despite it shows how talented he is, but sometimes it's REALLY obvious he came up with new concepts like a week before introducing them.

This rings true to me. It seems pretty clear that the author has Frieren's central emotional arc worked out: basically her coming to terms with her first love that slipped by her, and realizing that time is precious, now illustrated through Fern who is going to keep growing up and slipping away before she knows it (see the beautiful ED2 animation). That to me is the core of the show and the author does that so very well. All the rest around that is sort of like... the vehicle to deliver the realization? Not that it doesn't matter, because it does, but ultimately why it matters has nothing to do with what's actually going on, but with Frieren's continued character study -- how it connects to the past and Frieren's character development. And I think that's why even this arc still works as well as it does -- in a way it sort of doesn't matter what happens (though what happened itself was also good), it matters how this connects back to who Frieren is. So that's why, despite my "complaints" (really light, honestly), it's still such a good show.

One of the best moments in this whole arc to me (there were many) was when Sense asks Fern why she's doing all this and we see that it's all for Frieren's sake. We see the way she admires the almost childish sense of joy and wonder that Frieren has about adventuring and magic. (That comes home to roost in this episode where she confidently declares herself Frieren's disciple to Serie.) Really, when you create a character as interesting and nuanced as Frieren (along with a good cast of supporting characters), you can build a whole story around them and just slowly unraveling all the layers and it works. Even when the author may seem to make up the lore and plot developments as they go, keeping the story centered on its main characters is what makes it work, at least to me.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Well, point taken... But I think, despite "nothing happening," the actual journey itself seemed to be making good progress towards getting to the apparent destination. Of course, this didn't prevent them from arriving at the destination and this leading to yet another journey. But it was in that sense that it felt to me like it was moving along, and then they stopped. (Part of that is also the amount of time this arc took compared to everything else leading up to it, and that the story didn't very obviously seem to be heading up to it in particular.)

I guess, in RPG terms, it's like when the main story is progressing from town to town, with a few sidequests as you go, and then suddenly you arrive some a city and you're stuck there for 10 hours. If not for the little flashbacks, you might otherwise forget the reason why Frieren wants to go to the North in the first place. So now I'm curious about how they transition back to "Oh yeah, what were we doing again? It's been so long since we've been on the road..." (Of course, I fully expect that is literally how the next episode will end -- with them leaving the town to cross into the North, with some flashback to when the old party did the same. To be continued...)

I think I see your point: from your perspective they physically haven't moved from Äußerst, so you think their progress has halted in that sense, right?

I don't necessarily see the episodic content as "progress" either, because they're so self-contained that they could literally happen anywhere and with any number of times and it wouldn't have any bearing on the main story. In RPG terms I think the episodic content are the sidequests, and the editor urged them to make longer running arcs with an overarching subplot.

For example, would there be any difference whether Fern got a cold before or after Äußerst at all? There's virtually no frame of reference aside from the larger towns where the bigger arcs take place.

[deadite]

Frieren, Fern, Stark, and Kraft were stuck in a cabin longer than they have been in Auberst. Also I think this arc was more for Fern than it was for Frieren.

[Kazu-kun]

I think this arc can be interpreted in many different ways. For me, it was more about humanity itself than about any specific character (including Frieren and Fern). By exploring different characters with different would-views, goals and aspirations, I think this arc was constantly building up to that line at the end: "the era of humans has arrived."

[Mad Pierrot]

I don't mind this arc but it sure took a while: 12 episodes for the entire exam? I think defeating the Frieren clone took 3 episodes. It felt like the series was trying to be like a more typical shonen manga arc like the intro of Hunter x Hunter. The whole Mazoku arc was far more active and it actually involved every character in the process.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by scififan

One of the most popular discussion of this episode is foot fetish and playing toes.

...I don't want to know where you're frequenting for that to be a popular discussion.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

I think I see your point: from your perspective they physically haven't moved from Äußerst, so you think their progress has halted in that sense, right?

I don't necessarily see the episodic content as "progress" either, because they're so self-contained that they could literally happen anywhere and with any number of times and it wouldn't have any bearing on the main story. In RPG terms I think the episodic content are the sidequests, and the editor urged them to make longer running arcs with an overarching subplot.

For example, would there be any difference whether Fern got a cold before or after Äußerst at all? There's virtually no frame of reference aside from the larger towns where the bigger arcs take place.

Well, yeah, like a lot of RPGs the core premise of the plot was/is the journey to a specific destination. For as many stops as they took previously and wherever they occurred, they were still getting close to that destination, which created momentum for the plot. (Even the little slice-of-life episodes were like anecdotes along the journey.) And then, as was pointed out, the story spends a full 12 episodes on this particular arc in this one town. So at least to me it sort of broke the momentum of the first half of the story. We're no longer in the "anecdotes" territory, we basically launched into a full-on side-story (albeit a properly connected one). So if I just look at this anime on the whole, the A Part and B Part feel quite different in terms of the plot, but still united because of the character development and backstory that was baked into it.

I guess really it'll come down to what happens from now on. If this whole arc was a necessary foundation for a much broader story that will be revealed across multiple fronts from now on, then it'll probably make sense. But my concern all along was basically that this arc will end, they'll get back on the road again, and it'll all just be like one giant side-story that took 12 episodes to resolve.

Originally Posted by deadite

Frieren, Fern, Stark, and Kraft were stuck in a cabin longer than they have been in Auberst. Also I think this arc was more for Fern than it was for Frieren.

Obviously I wouldn't expect them to drag out being stuck in the log cabin for a proportional amount of time by any means, but this also does sort of mess with the sense of the passage of time in a way. We may know in our head that the cabin took longer, but it also lasted all of 1 episode, whereas this lasted for 12, so you'd be forgiven to have forgotten entirely about that long chapter in their lives.

And well, I guess I can buy that this was a character development arc for Fern, although I personally wouldn't say more than Frieren. (Maybe it's more consequential for Fern though because she sees the biggest change, whereas Frieren just continues adding more detail.) We saw Fern be able to articulate the reason for her journey, to be recognized for her skill and potential, to face the challenge of fighting her master('s clone), to better understand her Master's heart/personality, and be promoted to first-class mage in a first-ever feat. So certainly this arc is carrying a lot of weight to establish that actually Fern has become something of a big deal in her own right, and this isn't just going to be "Frieren's party" anymore (especially given that now Fern is the one with the pass, not Frieren). If that's the net effect of this arc in the long term -- the thematic transition to the Era of Humans, as Kazu-kun suggested -- then it might all make sense in retrospect, and the A Part here might just have been a sort of long prologue to the larger main point. (As I said, I do think Fern's continue growth and progress is being tied back strongly to the way they're developing Frieren's character. I wonder if the story is going to take us all the way to the end of Fern's life and how Frieren deals with the legacy she leaves behind, so "beyond journey's end" (or the alluded-to "Funeral") is a double-retrospective.)

I guess really a big part of this is not knowing where the story is going after this arc is done, so I'll certainly reserve my judgement until the next season comes around. (Or, if I am impatient, I'll start reading the manga, but we'll see...)

[~Yami~]

Now if we dragged it back to several previous episode when they decided to take exam, Frieren is never excited about it. Maybe because Frieren know that Serie will disqualify her no matter what because Frieren never intend to meet Serie's expectation or maybe because Serie is seeing Flamme in Frieren.

I think from the beginning, Frieren already know Fern will pass no matter what. That is why with just simple coaching, Fern can pass everything.

The question now is whether Ubel or Denken also pass or not.

[Strahan]

Saw this somewhere, gave me a chuckle

[magnuskn]

Given that in German a common phrase is "das schmeckt übel...", ie. "this tastes terrible...", this ain't the name for a delivery service you think one would take.

[Liddo-kun]

if Frieren is in Nichijou.

[Mad Pierrot]

https://preview.redd.it/after-the-2n...bp&aafce473473

[Metaneo]

That's kinda dark, funny, but dark

[magnuskn]

YouTube

https://youtu.be/SFc_XqPHC24

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