Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Pt. 2 Rebirth

[Homura7]

Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot

Is it? Rebirth seems to emphasize more the theory of a multiverse rather than a sequel.

It is.

Remember that last shot of Aeris opening her eyes at the end of FF7? That's how Remake begins, emphasizing the sequel nature of the games along with various other hints.

And several months prior to the release of Remake, Square released a long commercial where a particular section of its contents pretty much foreshadows everything that has happened so far and what will happen next.

[Mad Pierrot]

I always saw that scene as a show of how OG Aerith was using the Lifestream to stop Meteor. Besides, Cloud already made peace with his "mistakes" in Advent Children especially when talking with Aerith and Zack.

The Cloud from Remake and Rebirth has no recollection such events from other installments other than when he sees a different timeline. Same with Tifa. They were just given extra scenes. Personalitywise Cloud is far more immature here like in OG whereas in Advent Children he is more calm and collected.

[Homura7]

Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot

The Cloud from Remake and Rebirth has no recollection such events from other installments other than when he sees a different timeline. Same with Tifa. They were just given extra scenes

He has no recollection? Then...

Spoiler for spoiler:

explain to me how did he know Sefirot would drop from above and kill Aeris and that gave him enough time to intercept his sword before it was too late.

In Remake, Cloud had several memory flashes of the place and the time Aeris would die, then during the decisive battle against the whispers he gained more knowledge.

The story is easy to pick up I would say.

[Kanon]

Finished the game. The final boss battle was a bit too long for my taste, I guess it didn't help I had to retry the last two sections several times and cutscenes were unskippable. Once you know the trick for the very last phase though, it's easy.

Spoiler for Thoughts on the ending:

Despite being spoiled that Aerith still died, the game still managed to make me wonder if she would somehow survive. But nope.

I was 100% convinced Remake was a sequel back when I played it but I thought Rebirth muddied the waters a bit. There are major changes that can't be attributed to Sephiroth fucking with the lifestream. Besides, the way it was explained, the other timelines/world are ephemeral and are created when someone manages to defy destiny. They're all doomed to disappear except the one true timeline where the game takes place. Zack seems like an anomaly, being able to switch timelines. Aerith did it too to say goodbye to Cloud and retrieve the Holy materia that had lost its power, but it's Aerith. Her connection to the lifestream can explain it, same with Sephiroth.

I thought Cloud had gone full schizo at the end, but Nanaki feeling Aerith's presence when she pets him indicates she's basically a force ghost. One bound to the City of the Ancients, apparently. That said, Cloud is clearly in denial regarding her death, or rather, was manipulated by Sephiroth into believing he saved her. Cloud's mindbreak in the third game is going to make the OG look cute.

As for the game as whole, the main story is amazing and they did a fantastic job bringing FFVII's world map up to modern standard. I just wish they had found something better than fucking Chadley to push players to explore. More side-quests would have been welcome, it's a ~90+ hours game and there are only 35 of them.

On a different note, I was really depressed when my date turned out to be Nanaki at the Gold Saucer. I wanted it to be Tifa, and when I checked the stats at the end of the game she was at 95% affection while the others were in the low 80s, what the fuck? I feel like the game trolled me.

Originally Posted by Homura7

If you kept track of the ending songs for both games you can figure yourselves out what the title for the final release will be.

Spoiler for spoiler:

REUNION

It was already used for Crisis Core's remaster, it won't be that.

[Tactics]

The problem is they already advertised the sub-quests to be character in-depth moment, to know better who they are.
Its nice to learn Barret gave thought about Marlene future, or Red and Cloud have to accept they cannot let a cooked chicken wasted but, following that, it will be annoying if sub-quests ended up reiterate / retelling same things to get into 50+ sub-quests quota. At least it rewarding enough to learn Vincent is part of Yu-Gi-Oh sub-quest.

Pushing Chadley is kind of inevitable considering in OG you can start side-quests in Disc 2 but you can only completed it safely by Disc 3.
Imagine if they do exactly same, leave the side-quests hanging; new players frustrated because they didn't know Yuffie run away with their materia to Wutai that not accessible until next installment.

[Homura7]

Originally Posted by Kanon

It was already used for Crisis Core's remaster, it won't be that.

That means nothing, and there's an actual reason why it was given that title.

Also,

TL;DR…

spoiler

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

I can give you a more elaborated explanation if you wish.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Homura7

That means nothing, and there's an actual reason why it was given that title.

Also,

TL;DR…

spoiler

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

I can give you a more elaborated explanation if you wish.

Yes, please. Just telling me I'm wrong doesn't help me much.

I haven't checked discussions on the ending elsewhere yet. I'm sure there are many different interpretations.

[Tactics]

For me ... To put it simply.

Remake ends confirming Aerith and Sephiroth are conscious about difference with OG, so Remake happens post-OG.
At worst, only Sephiroth is post-OG since he need the knowledge of what lead to his defeat to pull something like this.

Rebirth ends confirming Aerith too, and Cloud is conscious enough to be played by Sephiroth mind games.
Notice that the result is same even with control available, not Cloud just standing there like OG. Another hints are: reversed Masamune despite SE consistent portrayal Sephiroth stab with pointy, sharp part (OG Aerith, Nibelheim villagers, Midgarsormr and Weapon) and "Aerith sleep because Cloud is still sick, but she will die if she wakes up. So you (Zack) have to save Cloud."

[Homura7]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Yes, please. Just telling me I'm wrong doesn't help me much.

I haven't checked discussions on the ending elsewhere yet. I'm sure there are many different interpretations.

Yes, sorry if that sounded a bit rude.

For starters, the FF7R series being a sequel to OG FF7 shouldn't come off as a shock anymore. I think anyone that played the 2 games should have figured that out by now.

I gathered every major and minor detail in Rebirth to have more or less a rough idea of what's going on. Here're my thoughts.

Spoiler for spoiler:

Lifestream is the blood of the Planet, all living things are born from it, including the Planet itself that one day will also wither and die and, in Sefirot's words, "become part of it".

But the Lifestream is much more than just the place where the dead go. It's a whirlpool that contains information (as in, memories) of the Planet and every living being that lived on it. And the Lifestream uses that pool of information to create new life. Yet it cannot create anything, as it needs to use these memories as the blueprint.

Thus the cycle of life would repeat once more. The planet would be reborn, and so would every living thing that once inhabited it: the Cetra, Jenova, Shinra, Cloud, Aeris, Sefirot, etc.

But just because things happened in a certain way before doesn't necessarily mean everything should play out identically. This is where the "Wisper Harbinger" I think came to being: a special type of Weapon created by the Planet whose mission is to ensure its survival by any means necessary, using the memories of the planet as the guide. Ultimately, Cloud and his companions destroyed this weapon. Starting Rebirth, fate was no longer set in stone and anything could happen.

But the Lifestream wasn't out of tricks, as it had a last resort just in case the Weapon got destroyed. After the final battle in Remake, a new world separate from the main one was born, a second Planet if you would put it. In Rebirth we got an explanation on what causes this strange phenomena: whenever someone or something goes against the established course (FF7), the Planet corrects that by removing the breach of fate to a new paralel world created specifically for that purpose.

Through the game, this situation repeats another 5 times: Zack decision to help out Cloud or to help Biggs ends up with him being met with a firing Shinra squad in a way reminiscent of his actual death. After two failed attempts, he's unsure of what to do and that creates a 4th world where Sefirot comes and kicks him out himself.

This is also why Marlene says Aeris will die if she wakes up, as no matter when or where, anything she does will end up with Sefirot killing her, as it happened once right before Cloud went to the City of Ancients.

And each of these worlds is numbered with a different dog breed and a number of stars. So far there're a total of 6 breeds counting the main world.

The ending: Confusing as it looked, I think what happened in the altar was the following:

Cloud saves Aeris > the Planet corrects that and creates a new world as a result of Cloud breaching fate, while in the main world Aeris dies. The worlds then merge, causing Aeris to be reborn, all while memories of her actual death from FF7 flash in Cloud's head. A rainbow hue and white whispers surround the two, heavily impliying only Cloud and Aeris spiritual bodies were moved to their bodies in the new world that was just created.

The rest of Avalanche however were outside when that happened, and all they see is Aeris dead and bleeding, while Cloud sees her alive and well, then gently lays her down. During the decisive battle, Sefirot undoes the mergin of the worlds, yet Aeris still joins Cloud by separating her spiritual body from her flesh, which is easy to tell because after the battle is over she fades in green light.

The end I think is easy to understand. Because they were the only two that were inside the Destiny Crossroads when the breach of fate happened, Cloud's consicousness is now stuck between the main world and the new one where Aeris lives, which explains why only he can see her and the scar in the sky (the rest of Avalanche cannot see Aeris nor the scar in the sky, though Nanaki can somehow feel she's with them).

Also, as much as she wished she could join them, Aeris knows that if she does that the Planet will again intervene, so she'll return to the City of Ancients and continue praying for Holy with all her strength. (and as long as she does that, Sefirot cannot kill her).

In a way you could say that Cloud not grieving for her is actually much worse for his mental health. The rest of Avalanche are sad and demoralized, yet they see Cloud calm and smiling, causing them to think he's losing his sanity at an alarming rate.

By the way, I wonder how many players were confused going for a specific date other than Aeris, only to realize that their choice felt disjointed within the narrative and ultimately was just there for the sake of letting the player choose. I can proudly say I wasn't one of these people

[Tactics]

Anyone with experience playing OG, or at least pay attention to how Gold Saucer goes, will aware Aerith is the canon choice.
Other choices exists not only in respect to OG but also as testament of SE efforts for VII-R, especially Tifa. No way they can do it without reading all feedback from hardcore OG players.

[NAJ P. Jackson]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Anyone with experience playing OG, or at least pay attention to how Gold Saucer goes, will aware Aerith is the canon choice.
Other choices exists not only in respect to OG but also as testament of SE efforts for VII-R, especially Tifa. No way they can do it without reading all feedback from hardcore OG players.

The Cloud and Aerith route speaks more as a Star-crossed lovers type of plot and I think has a bigger impact to the story-line as a whole yeah.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by NAJ P. Jackson

The Cloud and Aerith route speaks more as a Star-crossed lovers type of plot and I think has a bigger impact to the story-line as a whole yeah.

I like that SE in Aerith route put emphasis on her expression.
Really sell, "I will die as OG dictates, better make use all the times available."

Tifa OTOH is excellent childhood friend route.
You can see Cloud is more comfortable with her, which helps reaffirm Tifa importance to rearrange broken Cloud.
10/10 body language; for their shippers, the end of their date made it worth to kill Whisper Harbringer and defy destiny. LOL.

[Kanon]

Eh, I may be biased but I thought the story pushed Cloud x Tifa a lot more.

Spoiler for Ending spoilers:

Cloud is a lot more conscious of her (that totally not subtle glance at her cleavage when she showed up in her swimsuit) and they even kiss during their date. Aerith, on the other hand, admits in chapter 14 that she likes Cloud but isn't actually sure what kind of "like" it is. I feel they tried to make their relationship less romantic in this remake because Zack's still technically around and is the one who will end up with Aerith in the end, just like in AC.

Obviously, Cloud and Aerith still have a very strong bond, but Cloud x Tifa is (still) the canon romance. If Aerith had lived though, who knows? Maybe it could have developed into something more. But she still died.

I've been reading people's thoughts on the ending and it feels like no two person has the exact same interpretation. That's how ambiguous it is

Really would be nice if the third game came out earlier.

Originally Posted by Homura7

Yes, sorry if that sounded a bit rude.

For starters, the FF7R series being a sequel to OG FF7 shouldn't come off as a shock anymore. I think anyone that played the 2 games should have figured that out by now.

I gathered every major and minor detail in Rebirth to have more or less a rough idea of what's going on. Here're my thoughts.

Spoiler for spoiler:

Lifestream is the blood of the Planet, all living things are born from it, including the Planet itself that one day will also wither and die and, in Sefirot's words, "become part of it".

But the Lifestream is much more than just the place where the dead go. It's a whirlpool that contains information (as in, memories) of the Planet and every living being that lived on it. And the Lifestream uses that pool of information to create new life. Yet it cannot create anything, as it needs to use these memories as the blueprint.

Thus the cycle of life would repeat once more. The planet would be reborn, and so would every living thing that once inhabited it: the Cetra, Jenova, Shinra, Cloud, Aeris, Sefirot, etc.

But just because things happened in a certain way before doesn't necessarily mean everything should play out identically. This is where the "Wisper Harbinger" I think came to being: a special type of Weapon created by the Planet whose mission is to ensure its survival by any means necessary, using the memories of the planet as the guide. Ultimately, Cloud and his companions destroyed this weapon. Starting Rebirth, fate was no longer set in stone and anything could happen.

But the Lifestream wasn't out of tricks, as it had a last resort just in case the Weapon got destroyed. After the final battle in Remake, a new world separate from the main one was born, a second Planet if you would put it. In Rebirth we got an explanation on what causes this strange phenomena: whenever someone or something goes against the established course (FF7), the Planet corrects that by removing the breach of fate to a new paralel world created specifically for that purpose.

Through the game, this situation repeats another 5 times: Zack decision to help out Cloud or to help Biggs ends up with him being met with a firing Shinra squad in a way reminiscent of his actual death. After two failed attempts, he's unsure of what to do and that creates a 4th world where Sefirot comes and kicks him out himself.

This is also why Marlene says Aeris will die if she wakes up, as no matter when or where, anything she does will end up with Sefirot killing her, as it happened once right before Cloud went to the City of Ancients.

And each of these worlds is numbered with a different dog breed and a number of stars. So far there're a total of 6 breeds counting the main world.

The ending: Confusing as it looked, I think what happened in the altar was the following:

Cloud saves Aeris > the Planet corrects that and creates a new world as a result of Cloud breaching fate, while in the main world Aeris dies. The worlds then merge, causing Aeris to be reborn, all while memories of her actual death from FF7 flash in Cloud's head. A rainbow hue and white whispers surround the two, heavily impliying only Cloud and Aeris spiritual bodies were moved to their bodies in the new world that was just created.

The rest of Avalanche however were outside when that happened, and all they see is Aeris dead and bleeding, while Cloud sees her alive and well, then gently lays her down. During the decisive battle, Sefirot undoes the mergin of the worlds, yet Aeris still joins Cloud by separating her spiritual body from her flesh, which is easy to tell because after the battle is over she fades in green light.

The end I think is easy to understand. Because they were the only two that were inside the Destiny Crossroads when the breach of fate happened, Cloud's consicousness is now stuck between the main world and the new one where Aeris lives, which explains why only he can see her and the scar in the sky (the rest of Avalanche cannot see Aeris nor the scar in the sky, though Nanaki can somehow feel she's with them).

Also, as much as she wished she could join them, Aeris knows that if she does that the Planet will again intervene, so she'll return to the City of Ancients and continue praying for Holy with all her strength. (and as long as she does that, Sefirot cannot kill her).

In a way you could say that Cloud not grieving for her is actually much worse for his mental health. The rest of Avalanche are sad and demoralized, yet they see Cloud calm and smiling, causing them to think he's losing his sanity at an alarming rate.

By the way, I wonder how many players were confused going for a specific date other than Aeris, only to realize that their choice felt disjointed within the narrative and ultimately was just there for the sake of letting the player choose. I can proudly say I wasn't one of these people

Spoiler for Ending spoilers:

I really don't think your theory works, because Jenova and the Gi tribe are aliens who are completely unable to merge with the lifestream, meaning the planet would never be able to recreate them.

If this is a sequel, it's really just more likely Sephiroth traveled to the past through the lifestream and started messing things up. The completely different situation in Wutai can entirely be attributed to him, since Glenn is clearly another one of his puppets. The reason the Whispers didn't fix this is because he has his own army of black Whispers battling them. They started color coding the Whispers to make that more clear. IIRC, in Remake he could control them too, but they all looked the same.

[Homura7]

Originally Posted by NAJ P. Jackson

The Cloud and Aerith route speaks more as a Star-crossed lovers type of plot and I think has a bigger impact to the story-line as a whole yeah.

Not just that, "Reunion" is also a central theme in the new story of FF7, heavily highlighted in the yellow flower and the ending songs in both Remake and Rebirth which are call and response love ballads, with their common point being that the lovers need to tell no promises, for they know they'll one day find each other again.

I was never a fan of shipping, I always make sure to stay neutral when it comes to these things. Not having any bias allowed me to always see through the narrative and what it conveys.

[Shadow5YA]

They showed that they're going to stay faithful to events of the original, even if the nuance may be slightly different.

The "new" elements may just be there as a way to give plot elements to things that had little to no explanation in the original, like the way they expanded the role of the Weapons and the war with Wutai to give Yuffie a better reason to join the party.

There's plenty of events in the third disc that weren't very well fleshed out, like Safer Sephiroth being able to cast Meteor, the Lifestream coming out to save the day, or Zack's relevance in general.
Remember how it took a novel to explain how Zack and other dead people were in the Lifestream that came out to stop the Meteor?

[Homura7]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

They showed that they're going to stay faithful to events of the original, even if the nuance may be slightly different.

If by "events in the OG" you mean the major beats, you're right. But if you think

TL;DR…

spoiler

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

You couldn't be more wrong.

[Frontier]

Spoiler:

I imagine Aerith appearing again would be handled similarly to Zach in the Final Boss but canon-wise she's still dead.

[Homura7]

People are too obsessed with the idea that the narrative will stay 100% faithful to OG FF7 that they don't even bother to understand what happened at the end of the game.

Spoiler for spoiler:

For starters, the Rebirth part is about Aeris.

- Cloud's decision creates another reality where Aeris lives.

- But then Sefirot merges the worlds, so Aeris dies and all the efforts to change things for the better seems to have been for naught. Except...

- At the end of the battle the whole thing is undone and the realities split again. Because Cloud was the only one who was inside at the time it happened, his consciousness is now inside the new reality that was created with the decision he made, a reality where Aeris lives. So it naturally doesn't come as surprising when Cloud goes to Aeris and tells her to wake up, and she does exactly that. This is the moment Aeris is reborn. Notice how the white whispers and the rainbow hue isolate the two from everyone else that is watching.

Remake and Rebirth were just setting up things, the final part will be where the story will truly undergo major changes. It's about time you understand that you're playing a sequel.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Homura7

People are too obsessed with the idea that the narrative will stay 100% faithful to OG FF7 that they don't even bother to understand what happened at the end of the game.

Spoiler for spoiler:

For starters, the Rebirth part is about Aeris.

- Cloud's decision creates another reality where Aeris lives.

- But then Sefirot merges the worlds, so Aeris dies and all the efforts to change things for the better seems to have been for naught. Except...

- At the end of the battle the whole thing is undone and the realities split again. Because Cloud was the only one who was inside at the time it happened, his consciousness is now inside the new reality that was created with the decision he made, a reality where Aeris lives. So it naturally doesn't come as surprising when Cloud goes to Aeris and tells her to wake up, and she does exactly that. This is the moment Aeris is reborn. Notice how the white whispers and the rainbow hue isolate the two from everyone else that is watching.

Remake and Rebirth were just setting up things, the final part will be where the story will truly undergo major changes. It's about time you understand that you're playing a sequel.

I like changes. If I want 1 for 1 then I’d play the og. As long as they roughly keep to the original story than I’m fine with deviations.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Homura7

People are too obsessed with the idea that the narrative will stay 100% faithful to OG FF7 that they don't even bother to understand what happened at the end of the game.

Spoiler for spoiler:

For starters, the Rebirth part is about Aeris.

- Cloud's decision creates another reality where Aeris lives.

- But then Sefirot merges the worlds, so Aeris dies and all the efforts to change things for the better seems to have been for naught. Except...

- At the end of the battle the whole thing is undone and the realities split again. Because Cloud was the only one who was inside at the time it happened, his consciousness is now inside the new reality that was created with the decision he made, a reality where Aeris lives. So it naturally doesn't come as surprising when Cloud goes to Aeris and tells her to wake up, and she does exactly that. This is the moment Aeris is reborn. Notice how the white whispers and the rainbow hue isolate the two from everyone else that is watching.

Remake and Rebirth were just setting up things, the final part will be where the story will truly undergo major changes. It's about time you understand that you're playing a sequel.

People said the same thing Rebirth - how the next game for sure will be completely different!

Then Rebirth comes out, and it's still faithful to the original.

But the next time will be different for sure!